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Dr. Sarno has succeeded, but he shall not prevail.

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plum said:
Dear heart,



The Limbic System. Unconscious, automatic, instinctive. It's our old brain and interestingly the part that governs the whole "my god is bigger than your god" so typical of religions founded on fear.



Old and outdated science. Nobel Laureate Santiago Ramon y Cayal (1953-1934) mistakenly believed that brain cells were unique and couldn't regenerate. Hence the years of indoctrinated bosh you refer to. They were still churning it out when I was a psychology undergraduate.

In 1998 the journal Nature Medicine published a report by Peter Eriksson that demonstrated 'Neurogenesis in the Adult Human Hippocampus." Cue a paradigm shift.

I suppose these discussions rest upon what we mean by the unconscious. For some it is a metaphor, for others it is literally the Autonomic Nervous System. Candace Pert said the body was the unconscious mind. I took a shine to her teachings because she was also a woman of faith and she described us as flickering flames rather than slabs of meat. I admire people who retain that sense of wonder. She also explained how one cell bacterium are hard-wired for bliss. Nature is generous like that.

There are so many things that could be discussed. We could veer into Wittgenstein, Descartes, Descartes Error (Damasio), Damasios Error. We could explore the speculative theories on the origins of consciousness in the bicameral mind a'la Julian Jaynes, we could revel in the beautiful and assured writing of Paul Broks who presents case studies of those who've experienced brain trauma and the "reset of their personality dials."

Ultimately though this whole debate hinges on whether we accept the freudian model of the unconscious (1915) as a cauldron of primitive impulses along with his take on the structure of the psyche and the need for defence mechanisms or whether we choose to reject it either in favour of something like Wilson's adaptive unconscious (2004), or to reject it completely.

Rousseau or Hobbes? Forgive my feminine sentimentality for I'm a romantic. I like wine, music and song. I will always prefer poetry and mystery over facts and hard science but I don't find my faith or sense of awe is diminished by the explanations of those who look more closely. Instead I find it enriched.

I am pagan and am quite used to the feeling of others trampling over my faith with man-made ideas so I do sympathise. I shall close with one of my favourite quotes from one of my favourite authors:

"Oh what a catastrophe, what a maiming of love when it was a personal, merely personal feeling, taken away from the rising and setting of the sun, and cut off from the magic connection of the solstice and equinox. This is what is the matter with us. We are bleeding at the roots, because we are cut off from the earth and sun and stars, and love is a grinning mockery, because, poor blossom, we plucked it from its stem on the tree of Life, and expected it to keep on blooming in our civilised vase on the table."

~ D.H. Lawrence

Or as Freud simply stated, "Civilisation is madness."
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Wow, good stuff. Thanks plum.
 
plum said:
It's a huge responsibility and I have the greatest admiration for those who fulfil that vocation. I attended a Church of England school and the associated church was the same one my family attended. I have fond memories of it and remember sitting in the nave, gazing upon the beautiful carving of Christ for hours as a child and young woman.

Times have changed so much. People no longer have faith of any description and churches are visited more by vandals than those seeking sanctuary and peace. Science has taken more than just healthcare from us.
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plum said:
It's a huge responsibility and I have the greatest admiration for those who fulfil that vocation. I attended a Church of England school and the associated church was the same one my family attended. I have fond memories of it and remember sitting in the nave, gazing upon the beautiful carving of Christ for hours as a child and young woman.

Times have changed so much. People no longer have faith of any description and churches are visited more by vandals than those seeking sanctuary and peace. Science has taken more than just healthcare from us.
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That's sad plum. The part where people no longer have faith, that touched me. Dear I have faith, I love my Jesus. And I love my tms family that I have been assigned to for life.
God bless you plum.
 
I thank god for you. I know you have helped many, many people here with your compassion and kindness. Bless you for all the support you lend us, your tms family.

It is a sad time. I used to derive great solace from visiting a church during the quiet times. They are such inspiring, comforting places and I feel at home in them. Nowadays most churches are locked when there is no service, and the exquisite stained glass windows are guarded with heavy-duty sheets of plastic protection. I cannot comprehend the mentality of a person who would desecrate something sacred.
 
MrRage said:
It is quite likely that there is going to be a medical revolution simply because doctors cannot continue to defend the enormous number of surgical interventions they perform and the painkillers they prescribe. There is also the problem of healthcare costs that accompany conventional treatment options. Time is on our side. With the internet, we have a platform to raise awareness about the TMS diagnosis and we will continue to see patients successfully recover. In a few decades, the sheer amount of evidence will probably be too large for doctors to deny.

In the meantime, it truly is infuriating to think that there are millions of Americans who are being deprived of a decent and dignified existence simply because they have been misdiagnosed. It is outrageous when we know that there are people who do understand what is going and their theories and evidence are largely being ignored by the medical establishment.
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Parts of the mainstream do understand that MRI findings in backs and knees are not well-correlated with pain and that surgery is not always a good option. The New England Journal of Medicine and other prominent mainstream journals have published on this topic, and I have seen conventional doctors who "get" it. At the same time, obviously, another portion of the mainstream seems ignorant of this knowledge (which is now decades old).

The main issue, it seems to me, is that the idea that psychological issues cause pain and other physical symptoms (which by the way has been around a lot longer than Dr. Sarno) is still relatively marginalized. Which is why I believe it is counterproductive to criticize physicians who DO understand and promote the idea and to focus on what are really just quibbles between different theories of the mechanism within the body by which this happens. We are generations from knowing whose theory is right and in the bigger picture it really doesn't matter.
 
pspa said:
...Parts of the mainstream do understand that MRI findings in backs and knees are not well-correlated with pain and that surgery is not always a good option.

... is that the idea that psychological issues cause pain and other physical symptoms (which by the way has been around a lot longer than Dr. Sarno) ...

... We are generations from knowing whose theory is right and in the bigger picture it really doesn't matter.
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* Sufferers have been trained to believe by the collective meme, formed by the media and "mainstream" medicine, that they NEED their surgery to "heal" their worn-out body parts. I personally know doctors who have recommended conservative, non-surgical, wait and see solutions to their patients--who quickly become ex-patients, finding doctors who will give them the quick-fix surgical solution they demand.

* Dr. Sarno is the first to point out that psychosomatic medicine is NOT something he invented. In his books he lays out the great psychologists who laid the foundations for psychology. He is and was a very modest man eschewing the limelight--but very vociferous in advocacy of his TMS theory. He never did any book tours and few public appearances. His work is in his books, I'm sure if he wanted to be he could have become a TV celebrity doc. This is from the banner on top of the TMS Wiki page: General TMS Subforums (in honor of Dr. John Sarno)

* I don't think we are "generations away from knowing whose theory is right", I have faith/belief in Dr. Sarno's thought right here and now, that the mind is so complex we may never know the "mechanism(s)" for TMS and that it doesn't matter.

An example how new ideas are not accepted by the "mainstream" medical/industrial complex is a recent, IMHO, big story in the Lancet about an old NSAID that a recent meta-study found do be the best NSAID for knee and hip pain, by the generic name of diclofenac, brand name Voltaren. When the story first broke several months ago, google alerts appeared for a short period of time, the story has now disappeared. Diclofenac was found to be superior to all the other NSAIDS like Tylenol and the more expensive prescription ones. A month's supply is about $9 and in some countries it's OTC. Will the mainstream medicine find this info in their stack of Lancets and other medical journals stacked up in the doc's office? Or will it go under the mainstream radar like TMS has? The problem is that it's not new, it's generic, it's cheap and doesn't have a marketing campaign with attractive sales-reps touting it, passing out note-pads to docs with it's name on it. And, I have nothing against attractive medical sales-reps, anytime they want to give me samples of Flomax or swag I'll take it.
 
A lot of older, off-patent drugs are in all likelihood just as good as or superior to newer ones, but drug development. promotion and prescribing habits have as much to do with economics as merit.
 
BeWell said:
The big picture is what? Define it. The minutiae is the emotions. This is the source of pain, the minutiae, not the big picture.

Alterative theories to Doctor Sarno are veering to explanations that include structures verifiable by laboratory technology. How in the world will that assist the undefined big picture?

All of us are suffering which brought us to Dr. Sarno first, then to this forum that explores the reality of Dr. Sarno's diagnosis.

The heart of all my points is this. Be careful. Of what? Conventional medicine? No. Conventional medicine has it's head buried in money.

Be careful of those Doctors in the mindbody community who are diverging from Dr. Sarno, and selling junk, Back2Life, and bunk, neuroplastic learned pathways that ARE THE CAUSE of pain. Incorrectamundo.

It is emotions.

It is extremely important minutiae are correct and the explanations given are cohesive describing psychosomatic symptomatology so people, so many people looking for the truth, will have a correct diagnosis and explanation to define in their understanding the whole process of causation which then will set their mind at ease and help tremendously their understanding and confidence on their unique road to feeling physical normalcy and most important, their psychological and emotional health.
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I have mentioned before the difference between Sarno's in vivo approach and that of the lab-based in vitro theories. People are not test tubes and test tubes don't savour the licks and rolls of life.

I'm the last person in the room to condone conventional medicine. My years of involvement as a carer/caregiver have been little short of traumatic. But then I have never given a fig about allopathic medicine. I have always believed health woes are emotional in origin and before discovering Sarno I used The Anatomy of Spirit as explained by Caroline Myss. In the simplest language my "problem" boiled down to surrender.

'Surrender personal will to divine will.'

I lay awake awhile contemplating this (for the millionth time) last night. In ways that I dare not describe here this is achingly true for me.

I receive a fair amount of private messages from people who are royally stuck in their healing. I often say to them "we all know in our heart of hearts what the truth is and usually this truth circles heartbreak of some description."

I believe grief is as responsible for our pain as rage is.

@BeWell what advice would you give to those who are stuck? To those who have invested years in healing but see no improvement? To those who understand Sarno but cannot heal? Getting past tiresome encouragements to read more books and journal more words, what do you think these souls ought realise that thus far eludes them?
 
BeWell said:
I have always wondered what caused me to be me and what is the intense, elusive feeling of that place of discomfort? Luckily, I am very aware of a greater feeling that is the exact opposite and that is the source of why I have faith. It is beyond comprehension just as the question of how large is the universe and if the universe is defined, what exists beyond that? We will never know. The people with the telescopes looking into the skies won't be able to figure that out any more than the people looking into the brain with MRI will be able to figure out why the mind orders distractions to protect us from difficulty processing emotions.
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The journey creates the traveller and the longing to be loved and to belong brings us home. We all know the hunger of this. May each soul find their way home.

Thanks so much for responding to my questions. I shall contemplate your words as I venture out into the world.

God Bless You.
 
BeWell said:
...the mind orders distractions to protect us from difficulty processing emotions.
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plum said:
...venture out into the world.
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Some really GREAT TMS knowledge penicillin there from the two of you! The two of you have come up with the solution to those who have been stuck, AND really want out of the TMS ambivalence--fight, flight or freeze--JUST DO IT! Confidence by acting builds confidence in further actions. Enough ruminating, meditating, psychobabbling, staring at the ceiling, paralysis by analysis--get it on! Make that cup of coffee, pop the Pop-Tart into the toaster oven, post a couple of posts, and get crackin'. Walk around the block, jump in the pool, get on the bike, walk the mall, find some bargains, put the pedal to the metal (when you've got a clear road ahead with no troopers hiding on the other side of the overpass), tell the docs to shove it, and get on with getting it on. Get the blood flowing, your body will thank you.
 
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I am sorry guys but I don't buy it. Accepting the TMS diagnosis and venturing into the world won't do squat for somebody suffering from debilitating pelvic pain or fibromyalgia.

I know I was there.

It is only by expending on Sarno's concepts and practicing what is recommended by some of the coaches like Abigail or Monte that I finally improved. Those coaches learned themselves the hard way that accepting the diagnosis simply was not enough to heal. They themselves got inspired by authors like Eckhart Tolle or Alan Watts.
 
Many roads lead to Damascus, just cause it doesn't work for you doesn't mean its wrong. I agree with TT, i used a lot of other distractions and certain ways to do things out of fear and didn't want to face the truth. Some people delay the inevitable and stay in the obsessive state. You can free yourself when you are ready, no one needs to give you permission.

Ryan
 
ezer said:
I am sorry guys but I don't buy it. Accepting the TMS diagnosis and venturing into the world won't do squat for somebody suffering from debilitating pelvic pain or fibromyalgia.

I know I was there.

It is only by expending on Sarno's concepts and practicing what is recommended by some of the coaches like Abigail or Monte that I finally improved. Those coaches learned themselves the hard way that accepting the diagnosis simply was not enough to heal. They themselves got inspired by authors like Eckhart Tolle or Alan Watts.
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Like many people I've drawn great strength and wisdom from your words. I don't have pelvic pain but the insights extrapolate well. In the end we have to make healing our own in the same way we must make our lives our own. There is a beautiful symmetry around healing and authenticity.
 
If one looks at the success stories here and on the other forum, it is clear that people have used different approaches and methods to reduce or eliminate various types of pain. Of course, a literal application of Dr. Sarno's teachings, with no deviations or enhancements, has worked for some. And more power to them. But others, probably for a variety of reasons, have found other approaches (complementary, or otherwise) to be more helpful. That is why I maintain there is no single "correct" mind-body theory, and that proselytizing and arguing about orthodoxy in this context is most unhelpful. And divisive. It's always a huge mistake to extrapolate from your own experience to conclude you know the one true path for others.
 
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pspa said:
...proselytizing and arguing about orthodoxy in this context is most unhelpful. And divisive. It's always a huge mistake to extrapolate from your own experience to conclude you know the one true path for others.
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So I take it you disagree! You are welcome to your viewpoint that the cup is half-empty, I prefer to view it as half-full. I wasn't proselytizing, arguing with anyone or saying I knew the one true path--that is your interpretation. You are the one creating the divisiveness--don't be a Debbie Downer and a joy-kill. It's easy to be a critic. In all of Dr. Sarno's writings he says the body is not injured, it's the mind that is and the longer your DON'T believe that, the longer you will hold tight to your structural crutches, delaying enjoyment of life. Doing what you once thought you could not do because the medical establishment instilled fear in you, will create confidence to take the next step forward--confidence creates more confidence--in a short period of time you can undo the negative conditioning that the collective meme has subconsciously instilled in you and substitute it with the Good Doctor's Knowledge Penicillin to create your own positive mindbody reality. See my sig below. I'm going for a swim now and some tennis afterwards.

Cheers,
tt/lsmft
 
I am the one suggesting we embrace all in the mind-body field whose teachings may resonate with and help people, and not attack them for having a different perspective. And I am the one being divisive? Not.
 
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