Dr. Sarno has succeeded, but he shall not prevail.

[BeWell]

[Deleted at BeWell's request]

 

[BeWell]

[Deleted at BeWell's request]

 

[TG957]

Dear heart,



The Limbic System. Unconscious, automatic, instinctive. It's our old brain and interestingly the part that governs the whole "my god is bigger than your god" so typical of religions founded on fear.



Old and outdated science. Nobel Laureate Santiago Ramon y Cayal (1953-1934) mistakenly believed that brain cells were unique and couldn't regenerate. Hence the years of indoctrinated bosh you refer to. They were still churning it out when I was a psychology undergraduate.

In 1998 the journal Nature Medicine published a report by Peter Eriksson that demonstrated 'Neurogenesis in the Adult Human Hippocampus." Cue a paradigm shift.

I suppose these discussions rest upon what we mean by the unconscious. For some it is a metaphor, for others it is literally the Autonomic Nervous System. Candace Pert said the body was the unconscious mind. I took a shine to her teachings because she was also a woman of faith and she described us as flickering flames rather than slabs of meat. I admire people who retain that sense of wonder. She also explained how one cell bacterium are hard-wired for bliss. Nature is generous like that.

There are so many things that could be discussed. We could veer into Wittgenstein, Descartes, Descartes Error (Damasio), Damasios Error. We could explore the speculative theories on the origins of consciousness in the bicameral mind a'la Julian Jaynes, we could revel in the beautiful and assured writing of Paul Broks who presents case studies of those who've experienced brain trauma and the "reset of their personality dials."

Ultimately though this whole debate hinges on whether we accept the freudian model of the unconscious (1915) as a cauldron of primitive impulses along with his take on the structure of the psyche and the need for defence mechanisms or whether we choose to reject it either in favour of something like Wilson's adaptive unconscious (2004), or to reject it completely.

Rousseau or Hobbes? Forgive my feminine sentimentality for I'm a romantic. I like wine, music and song. I will always prefer poetry and mystery over facts and hard science but I don't find my faith or sense of awe is diminished by the explanations of those who look more closely. Instead I find it enriched.

I am pagan and am quite used to the feeling of others trampling over my faith with man-made ideas so I do sympathise. I shall close with one of my favourite quotes from one of my favourite authors:

"Oh what a catastrophe, what a maiming of love when it was a personal, merely personal feeling, taken away from the rising and setting of the sun, and cut off from the magic connection of the solstice and equinox. This is what is the matter with us. We are bleeding at the roots, because we are cut off from the earth and sun and stars, and love is a grinning mockery, because, poor blossom, we plucked it from its stem on the tree of Life, and expected it to keep on blooming in our civilised vase on the table."

~ D.H. Lawrence

Or as Freud simply stated, "Civilisation is madness."

Plum, as always, enjoyed your beautiful writing! May I add to the list of the minds that shaped up our understanding of mindbody many of the Buddhist Tibetan monks, who were thousands years ahead of us in understanding of the relationship between the mind, the body and the pain, that infamous TMS that brought us all together to this forum.

 

[plum]

This forum is a discussion forum, not only a panel of pain travelers giving encouragement to one another and advice on good books to read.

You don't like my ideas, but why would that necessitate my silence?

I agree with what Doctor Sarno said regarding his own new diagnosis. That his diagnosis will be appropriated by hordes of newly minted mindbody specialists, be they neurologists, brain surgeons, or dog catchers with a hobby of neuroplasticity, and the diagnosis of a psychologically induced physical disorder will be fractured and confusing to people.

If one theory enhanced by confidence your brain has built a new neural learned pathway after your birth that caused your pain suits you better, more power to you.

I prefer Doctor Sarno who says TMS is universal. We inherited the process by evolution, and it is triggered, then very soon after the mental conditioning begins. Fear of many things that may bring the dreaded pain back. Knowledge of psychological causation interrupts the decision to initiate a TMS attack when the mind has learned a part of itself was pulling a fast one.

My lovely dad, with whom I enjoy very interesting discussions on subjects we have passionately different views on, always says how strong can your faith be if it can't stand up to the odd shakedown now and then.

As vexing and confusing as it may be at times, I tend to agree. Besides which we can always take a hiatus (which I tend towards), or quite simply elect to ignore the person whose views drive us screwy. It's one of the boons of this forum. We can follow, ignore or be delightfully indifferent.

I take your point about the dangers of jack of all trades getting in on the act. That does concern me. It takes a rare person to handle the soul with wisdom and care.

 

[plum]

Plum, as always, enjoyed your beautiful writing! May I add to the list of the minds that shaped up our understanding of mindbody many of the Buddhist Tibetan monks, who were thousands years ahead of us in understanding of the relationship between the mind, the body and the pain, that infamous TMS that brought us all together to this forum.

And what a fine addition they are. I have the Reggie Ray book you recommended nestled in my amazon basket. I thought he would be a good place to start my exploration because I love his writings.

 

[MrRage]

I agree with a lot of what BeWell is saying but the way he is presenting it isn't going to win over too many people. The first post sounds like something from the pulpit of a 17th century preacher from New England.

The TMS diagnosis really isn't a doctrine, it is a diagnosis based on clinical research and careful observation. Dr. Sarno used Freud's system to explain what is going on. Other doctors have somewhat different explanations for what is going on. The important thing is the understanding that the 'pain' is a psychological problem and must therefore be evaluated and treated psychologically.

 

[Tennis Tom]

I believe BeWell has a perfect right to express his views on TMS here and disagree with Drs. Hansom and Schubiner. If they want to rebut, they have the right to come here and participate in the conversation. I take offense to those who wish to quiet his right to express his views on TMS and are name-calling and pressuring to shut him up. BeWell is expressing views on how TMS functions that are helpful to those wanting to understand TMS. He is expressing his views with passion and emotion--I thought that's what TMS was about--expressing passion and emotions and not having to repress and suppress them.

 

[Ellen]

We all have the option of ignoring discussion threads. For me, this is like ignoring TMS when it flares up, and then moving on to something else.

 

[BeWell]

[Deleted at BeWell's request]

 

[MrRage]

I believe BeWell has a perfect right to express his views on TMS here and disagree with Drs. Hansom and Schubiner. If they want to rebut, they have the right to come here and participate in the conversation. I take offense to those who wish to quiet his right to express his views on TMS and are name-calling and pressuring to shut him up. BeWell is expressing views on how TMS functions that are helpful to those wanting to understand TMS. He is expressing his views with passion and emotion--I thought that's what TMS was about--expressing passion and emotions and not having to repress and suppress them.

I can empathize with BeWell's views because the medical establishment in America is really failing millions of people at this point in time. However, his posts are a bit too rhetorical and ideological and this could possibly be a turnoff to new users learning about the TMS diagnosis for the first time. Nobody seems to be suggesting that this topic be locked or that BeWell's posts be censored. Some posters are reacting to his posts radically because his posts are quite frankly radical.

Nobody should be free from having their theories be scrutinized and criticized. That includes Hanscom, Schechter, Schubiner and even the undeniably great Dr. Sarno.

 

[TG957]

I can empathize with BeWell's views because the medical establishment in America is really failing millions of people at this point in time. However, his posts are a bit too rhetorical and ideological and this could possibly be a turnoff to new users learning about the TMS diagnosis for the first time. Nobody seems to be suggesting that this topic be locked or that BeWell's posts be censored. Some posters are reacting to his posts radically because his posts are quite frankly radical.

Nobody should be free from having their theories be scrutinized and criticized. That includes Hanscom, Schechter, Schubiner and even the undeniably great Dr. Sarno.

Could not say it in any better way!

 

[plum]

I don't agree with all points of view expressed or how they sometimes are written though there is a great deal of openness in this forum that is rare, even for the Internet. Thank you for letting me speak or vent and I too welcome disagreeable views.

More power to you my darling. You have a good heart and I like your passion. I sometimes wonder if a rant warning disclaimer would soften matters

I'm curious, are you a preacher?

 

[BeWell]

[Deleted at BeWell's request]

 

[BeWell]

[Deleted at BeWell's request]

 

[BeWell]

[Deleted at BeWell's request]

 

[MrRage]

I agree with most of your views and I am by no means trying to criticize your views. I just think that the way that you formulate them is a bit extreme. There is nothing wrong with this. But it also shouldn't be suprising when the responses you get are equally extreme.

To be perfectly honest, I generally try to avoid thinking about the failure of the medical care system to recognize the TMS diagnosis as a serious and valid diagnosis. Most of us even here would have a faster recovery time because our doctors and the mainstream medical establishment would assure us that our problems are psychological. I spent eight years in pain and despair and that alone is an enormous indictment of the entire medical system. It took me eight years before I accidentally stumbled into the TMS diagnosis and it has been the most life-changing information I have ever encountered. It is outrageous that Dr. Sarno's work has still not been well-received after decades of successful treatment of his thousands of patients.

I am also inclined to agree with your position that the more technical theories of TMS can potentially be counterproductive to patients because they will think about the information presented in these theories rather than focusing on their emotions and their unconscious.

 

[BeWell]

[Deleted at BeWell's request]

 

[MrRage]

It is quite likely that there is going to be a medical revolution simply because doctors cannot continue to defend the enormous number of surgical interventions they perform and the painkillers they prescribe. There is also the problem of healthcare costs that accompany conventional treatment options. Time is on our side. With the internet, we have a platform to raise awareness about the TMS diagnosis and we will continue to see patients successfully recover. In a few decades, the sheer amount of evidence will probably be too large for doctors to deny.

In the meantime, it truly is infuriating to think that there are millions of Americans who are being deprived of a decent and dignified existence simply because they have been misdiagnosed. It is outrageous when we know that there are people who do understand what is going and their theories and evidence are largely being ignored by the medical establishment.

 

[plum]

I am not. That is a very important position. The breadth of responsibility is tremendous.

It's a huge responsibility and I have the greatest admiration for those who fulfil that vocation. I attended a Church of England school and the associated church was the same one my family attended. I have fond memories of it and remember sitting in the nave, gazing upon the beautiful carving of Christ for hours as a child and young woman.

Times have changed so much. People no longer have faith of any description and churches are visited more by vandals than those seeking sanctuary and peace. Science has taken more than just healthcare from us.

 

[plum]

I could not agree with you more Man. It is incredible in this time of making movies in high def and sending them across the world with a wireless phone to a friend, in seconds, and the friggin greedy and dumb medical system is systematically hurting people and in many cases killing people with wrong diagnoses, improper treatments, and misplaced trust by a passive public.

We should be infuriated with this gross incompetence and ignoring of Dr. Sarno who has figured out the source of the problem in almost all ailments that are hurting people. Further, Dr. Sarno says unconscious emotions are a factor in every single ailment, except trauma. He's right. We know it because we are living proof!

I am not advocating a revolution. People must use critical thinking and put theories to the test.

I am not an educated person, but in my opinion, Dr. Sarno's books and work is the second most important volume of literature, science, and benefit to humankind if we have the guts to live it. You can guess what is numero uno.

Ironically I'm in a hospital now, chaperoning someone who has an appointment. They like me to come because I kindly tolerate no nonsense and scaremongering. Looking around at the shambles before me, I just made the observation that I wouldn't trust these people to drive my car never mind touch my body.