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Dr Google

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Susan1111, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. Susan1111

    Susan1111 Well known member

    Hi All I would like to preface this post by saying I am a firm believer in mind body/TMS and its not meant to scare anyone. However what I'm seeing gives me some concern. If I understand correctly DR Sarno and many other MDs/ TMS therapists have said rule out a medical issue first. Yet I am seeing a lot of people assuming whatever is wrong is TMS. No medical intervention. Yes I also know the opposite is true have gone to every Dr imaginable, every test as well...this post is not for you.

    I mention this certainly not to frighten anyone but to be careful with self diagnosis, or for those who give advise.

    I have a dear friend who had terrible sciatica ish pain...he was treating it with PT and it wasn't getting better, quite some time went by...it wasn't TMS either but multiple myeloma.

    A client of mine came back from a long exhausting trip from the Dominican Republic. Her lower back felt achy understandably she thought it was general fatigue and and very bumpy bus rides. We did a gentle Pilates workout. She cancelled her next appointment to rest her back (I don't have my clients doing anything that makes them uncomfortable)... Long story shorter I ran into her on the street when I thought she'd be at her summer house...it turns out she was rushed to the emergency room for a severe kidney infection.

    I hope this post is taken with the loving care it's meant to have. I understand I'm new here so I truly hope this post is not out of line. @Forest delete it if it is I just feel I'm seeing a lot of advise that everything is TMS.
    Please don't be Dr Google and do a self diagnosis. Part of a TMS lesson is loving and caring for yourself.

    Warmly, Susan
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
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  2. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry Well known member

    True enough. My mum was going to the GP unwell and was being told it was anxiety and I was totally 100% sure she had TMS...I even bought her Steve O's book. It turned out she actually had lung cancer and she was dead 3 months after getting the correct diagnosis. Double whammy really as I've has health anxiety for 5 years and over the last 3 years both my mother and father have died from cancer which was missed by GP's which is the health anxiety sufferers deep seated fear and I also sit with guilt over the fact that I never really took my mothers concerns as serious as I maybe should have as I was sure she had TMS.
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  3. Susan1111

    Susan1111 Well known member

    Huckleberry sending you warm loving hugs, I'm so sorry about your parents....
  4. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi All,

    I'm sorry Huckleberry, my thoughts are with you.

    I've had the very same discussion with SteveO on another thread and he said it depends which lense we look at these illnesses. Most TMS Dr's are very careful with applying their definition because they don't wish to be discredited by being radical or certainly making claims without scientific weight or proof.

    All TMS diagnosis come with the caveat "to rule out any structural or underlying medical issues before proceeding with the program". I personally think, when we are working through the program, we should never be afraid to ask our physicians if we are unsure about symptoms, ask as much as we need to, or at least until out belief is concrete. I'd say there's no harm in adapting a dual approach if one is unsure. Needless to say, regardles of whether someone has TMS, or a more serious Mindbody disorder, the modalities taught can only improve ones well being, healing times, strengthen the immune system and how we manage fear, anxiety, day to day stressors etc.

    However, there are those Dr's, Gabor Mate, Lissa Rankin etc who hold a strong belief that the mind has a serious role in the causation of cancer and other serious illnesses.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
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  5. Susan1111

    Susan1111 Well known member

    However, there are those Dr's, Gabor Mate, Lissa Rankin eyc who hold a strong belief that the mind has a seriousrole in the causation of cancer and other serious illnesses.

    @mike2014 although the mind may have caused the illness which I can believe I don't think treating cancer psychologically will work. I'm hoping they don't promote that as treatment
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  6. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    I agree, it may be beneficial to use these techniques to prevent and avoid. But once one has developed something life threatening, the smart move would be to embrace western medicine (chemo etc) and supplement with alternative modalities, ie meditation, dieteray changes etc. Unfortunately, cancer is a big beast that nobody understands.

    You may wish to read the following thread:

    Susan1111 likes this.
  7. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Oh my goodness, Huckleberry, that is absolutely terrible. I am so sorry for your loss.

    The thought of someone missing an important diagnosis like cancer and dying because of it is such an awful thing. It's just devastating.

    Susan, in terms of your question about whether it is appropriate to bring this topic up here, yes it most definitely is. This is an unmoderated forum without a specific viewpoint and anyone is welcome to bring up any viewpoint that they like. The only exception to this are antiscientific topics such as ESP or psychic healing. There are some real wackos out there with some crazy beliefs and while I'll defend the expression of a wide variety of beliefs here as a core value, this is not the place to discuss such bunk. But in terms of discussing things that are on topic, I don't impose any restrictions and will not allow anyone else to do so either.

    Certainly what you are bringing up is a very important topic. All of the mindbody doctors, especially Dr. Sarno, are very clear that it is vital to rule out serious illness.

    The tremendous importance that this idea holds to Dr. Sarno can be clearly seen from his web page at www.johnesarnomd.com. The very first thing that he emphasizes on his web site is his medical and academic training and credentials. As the consumate medical scientist, these were vital to him. The photo reinforces this, showing him in a doctor's lab coat, standing in front of a chalk board, perhaps symbolizing his role as a professor of medicine and attending physician.

    Next, mentioning his books but before even naming them, he writes that "The commercially available material is solely for informational purposes and should under no circumstances substitute for a diagnosis or treatment by a medical doctor." A simple link to a disclaimer at the bottom would have given him all the legal cover he needed, but that idea is vital to him, so he puts it right up front.

    After that, he discusses referrals. All referrals go to Ira Rashbaum and he includes Dr. Rashbaum's degree, his Rusk and NYU affiliations, and even his number. Some people may wonder why Dr. Sarno chose Dr. Rashbaum as his successor when Dr. Gwozdz is nearby. Dr. Rashbaum emphasized in a training at Rusk where several of Dr. Sarno's inner circle had helped organize that he is extremely careful to not rush to diagnose TMS and I believe that that is why Dr. Sarno chose him.

    Finally, Dr. Sarno is extremely careful to state at the bottom that no other website or practitioner can speak for him. Instead, that site is his statement, and it link you to his books and academic publications (of which there are quite a few). He was very concerned about how others might extend his beliefs beyond what he has done in his writings and didn't want unqualified people making money off of his name. For example, I have heard from someone close to the events (not from any of the people in his inner circle who are consummate professionals) that he broke off all connection with someone who had previously acted as a sort of business manager when that person started offering TMS coaching services on his website. It was at about that time that the disclaimer appeared at the bottom of Dr. Sarno's site. To Doctor Sarno, all patients must be evaluated by a properly licensed doctor. If that and education don't work, they are referred to a highly trained psychoanalyst (the ones closest to him at Rusk all have doctorates).

    Here's a screenshot so you can check it out yourself:


    The above screenshot is how Dr. Sarno chooses to show himself to the world. It is the official site of Dr. Sarno and it represents what is important to him. He wants his books, his scientific publications, and his medical expertise to speak for him.

    And what does he say? It's right there on the front page: "The commercially available material is solely for informational purposes and should under no circumstances substitute for a diagnosis or treatment by a medical doctor."

    Always see a properly trained and licensed medical doctor to rule out something serious like cancer.

    Dr. Sarno puts that guidance front and center, right on his home page. I bears repeating, so thank you for reminding us, @Susan1111.

    I think he cares so much about it because, given his position of responsibility, he doesn't want to be associated with harming people. As the person who created this web site, I feel the same way. Your story has touched me deeply, @Huckleberry, and I will remember the story of you and your mother until I die. Thank you for sharing it. I am sorry for your loss.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
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  8. Simplicity

    Simplicity Guest

    @Huckleberry - I'm so sorry to hear about your parents.

    @Susan1111 - Thank you for posting this; it's very important to bring it up and for everyone to keep it in mind.
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  9. Susan1111

    Susan1111 Well known member

    Thank you @Forest. I tend to worry but with concern and a good heart. Your response as always is thoughtful and filled with pertinent information. On a personal note I'm glad to see what was written about Dr Rauchbaum as he confirmed my diagnosis this past Nov. I will pass this on to a neighbour who will be seeing him in Feb on my recommendation.
    Forest likes this.
  10. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry Well known member

    Thanks for the comments guys.
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  11. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member


    What test did he perform
  12. Susan1111

    Susan1111 Well known member

    I spent about an hour with him. He first reviewed my medical history with me and asked me to describe in detail what problem I was having. He then asked personality questions.

    The examination was checking full body reflexes and sensations. He then felt the muscles in my upper back thorasic area and took photos showing how the slightest touch left a red impression before and after touching... which was the oxygen deprivation... It only happened on my upper back nowhere else.

    Lastly he looked at the X-ray I brought. Although my X-ray showed severe degeneration of my Cervical spine and Arthritis his diagnosis was firm TMS.
  13. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    Interesting.... What made you go to him just to confirm a tms diagnosis
  14. Susan1111

    Susan1111 Well known member

    Yes to confirm.

    I had been in pain since June I was told it was a pinched nerve. The X-ray freaked me out!!! I started researching and found him here in NYC. I waited two months for the appointment.
    Reading a book wasn't good enough for me! Although I fit the personality
  15. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    I went to one in Boston .... Not believing my regular dr saying I was fine and under some kind of stress. I do not feel is worth the trouble once your dr clears you... It can only be tms . The TMS dr I went was a quack
  16. Susan1111

    Susan1111 Well known member

    My Dr agreed with Arthritis and pinched nerve causing pain so it was very upsetting to me. I also had emotional stuff more than I realized.

    It's a shame you saw a quack. Dr Rauchbaum I knew had a good reputation. Even with his diagnosis there was a little voice in me until more recently that something was physically wrong especially when I had a week of going backwards. Now I get it loud and clear!
  17. Susan1111

    Susan1111 Well known member

    @Boston Redsox TMS has been an amazing journey into learning more about me... Just when I thought I knew it all!!
  18. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    I feel the same .....I have really learned a lot about myself and how I have been repressing my anger ... Even though I have not seen much pain improvement over the last year . I continue to be grateful for what I have and have a positive outlook and try to have energy and motivation.
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