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Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Walt Oleksy, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Jilly

    Jilly Well known member

    I'm going to remember this .. great visual, Eric

    We have definite neural pathways that are set and activated when triggered but we also have neural plasticity to practice and learn new pathways and behaviors. Communication is good, let the supervisor know if they have ears to hear, but some supervisors do not know how to manage people and integrate employee complaints / concerns in a productive manner. I am so careful talking to the boss ! LOL ! I won't tell them my true feelings at work, I tell them what the problem is and leave out feelings. Hmmm, did I just uncover a TMS vein of pain in myself ? - Do Gooder behavior -
  2. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

  3. JaneNG

    JaneNG New Member

    Hi New to this forum. Have read Dr. Sarno's Mind Body Prescription and was currently reading The Divided Mind when I had another episode of vertigo. I have had vertigo several times over the last five years. We're not talking about a little anxiety dizzy we are talking room spinning can't sit up vertigo. First experience took a while to get diagnosed but it was determined with Dix Hillpike (my doc did but you can do it yourself check Utube) test that I had BPPV in my left ear. Supposedly the medical theory is that due to head injury, or virus or 50% unknown reasons the otoliths (some people call them crystals, ear rocks, stones) break off in the inner ear and get stuck in the balance area and need to be removed (which you do by Epley maneuver and can be done at home). (Perfect example of these two procedures and medical explanation is on Utube of Dr. Travis Stork/Vertigo). My family doctor said with the medical community is really not fully sure of the reasons these happen to people (SURPRISE, SURPRISE) to keep an open mind in serching for why it keeps coming back to me. Note: I have learned the epley maneuver and do them on myself when I have had vertigo the last few times they are easy to do and do work. Perhaps a placebo but what the heck it works. Maybe my mind needs that. With that said my experience and research I've done on this subject coincides with Dr. Sarno's theory of less oxygen to an area (inner ear) producing pain (producing vertigo) . I'm trying to keep this less complicated but you must understand I have learned much and really have no definite answer but I suspect and pretty much am convinced that STRESS (UNCONTROLLABLE) which could very well be unconscious along with a blocked airway due to cold, allergies, sleep problems, puts an undue stress on the inner ear making the otoliths/crystals clog into the wrong canal. So an emotional response (TMS) causing a physical symptom (veritgo). Now, medical profession claims that the vertigo (without epley maneuvers to clear out the crystals) should resolve by itself in three to six months. Of course, who wants to have constant dizzy spells so I recommend the epley. I have used other exercises (Brandt Daroff) but I have found the epley is the best and the quickest. I think its necessary to get results as quickly as possible so you can resume your life. Remember people who get this tend to have a heightened nervous system to begin with and they don't need to have any more reason to be worried. It wasn't until my second bout of vertigo that my doctor finally had PT teach me the epley. When I did the eply by myself at home I was cleared in seven days. I was dealing with the vertigo and the anxiety afterwards for six months prior to getting the issues resolved in one week. My stress level was over the top after going through that and all the doc had to do initially was have the PT do an eply and teach me how to do them. My fear had six months to be ingrained in my brain and it isn't until recently (with the help of Sarno's books) that i am coming to terms with this disorderand guess what, BAM another vertigo episode. I was in the process of reading Dr. Sarno's Divided Mind and it happened and clearly I realized what was going on. Not fully understanding the dynamics of this complicated condition but certainly accepting the role TMS is playing on me. One thing worth mentioning is that an MRI should be done to make sure there are not tumors. But, most common cause is BPPV and we all know from TMS.
    Let me make it clear these home exercises all bring on the vertigo (very scary) to reposition the crystals in an area that won't cause dizziness and the theory is they eventually dissove AND exercises help your brain balance you again. OK what medical profession agrees on is the most people who get BPPV who were not injured or had a virus which is 50% all showed a heightened nervous system prior to vertigo. Namely UNCONTROLLABLE stress and/or major life event leading up to the vertigo episode. Now, of course they will not say that the UNCONTROLLABLE stress causes vertigo. But, they at least agree that it doesn't help. Secondly, the medical profession agrees that a virus can cause vertigo. Of course they don't explain why but I came across an ENT who had BPPV and was NOT sick or INJURED. He was throwing a theory out to all of us BPPV patients about what could be happening (see Dr. Parks/Vertigo Utube). Dr. Parks said that "any upper airway resistance (lack of sleep, apnea, cold, allergies) can heighten your nervous system, leading to hypersensitive sensors. It's like when you get a migraine and certain noises or bright lights can make you cringe. In the same way, hypersensitive inner sensor can over-react to any extra form of stimulation, including otoliths. If you take this concept even further, if the other parts of the inner ear are also extra sensitive, then you can have anything from hyperacusis (sensitivities to certain sounds or voices) to rining. This could apply to Meniere's as well. So ultimately, it may not be the free-floating stone, per se, that causes your symptoms but that if your nervous system is extra sensitive to stimulation due to various forms of sleep deprivation or added stress,then you can supper classic BPPV symptoms." So there you have it the MIND/BODY connection to vertigo. From my experience and knowledge it totally makes sense to me. I wish Dr. Parks could talk with Dr. Sarno so much in common. I hope this helps those of you who are dealing with vertigo and I would like to hear if you have experienced the same emotional/physical symptoms prior to your experience. Hope you are dizzy free forever!!!
    Allund likes this.
  4. Fifi

    Fifi New Member

    Hi Walt,
    I haven't had any problems for the last while and today I started getting dizzy spells. I immediately started to make excuses to myself and find the reason for feeling dizzy. Just on chance I came in and checked the TMS forum....there it was...TMS trying to get back. I forgot it could be one of the symptoms. Thanks for being there.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  5. Allund

    Allund Peer Supporter


    I'm also new in the forum. Thank you JaneNG for sharing tour experiencie! Really impressed for what you explained. I hace recently read John E Sarno book "The mindbody prescription".
    I am having also problems with vertigo since last november...during this time I has dizziness, a feeling that you are fainting. But also what it seems BPPV. I hace visited a couple of doctors with no help at all. I received The Epley maiobre but The vértigo has come back a few months later... I am really tired of this. I would like to read other books by Dr Sarno to try to understand it better.
    Good luck to all of you!!
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  6. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Allund, a lot of dizziness and vertigo goes along with anxiety. In addition to reading Dr. Sarno, you might benefit from a book called Hope & Help For Your Nerves by Dr. Claire Weekes. Dr. Weekes is no longer with us, but her little book has helped many of us overcome anxiety, which can not only be very debilitating on its own, but it will definitely make dizziness worse, along with all the other TMS symptoms.

    Back in 2011 I was checked for BPPV, but didn't show any signs of it - that didn't surprise me, because I typically did not have vertigo (spinning). The dizziness clinic I attended called my condition an "irritated vestibular system" which is in line with everything we know about hyper-sensitized nervous systems, which Jane describes in her post, and which Dr. Weekes describes in Help & Hope For Your Nerves. In other words, those of us with anxiety (that's a LOT of us here) tend to be overly sensitive as a result of too many years being constantly in fight-or-flight mode.

    I know several people with BPPV and they show all the signs of classic TMS but so far have not been interested in learning about it. I've put the suggestion out there, perhaps one day they'll come back around and check it out.
  7. Allund

    Allund Peer Supporter

    Thank you for your reply! I will look for that book!
    As you mentioned, I am also dealing with anxiety, in fact some years ago I suffered from PVCs or extrasystoles, but this last year dizziness and vertigo appeared, once PVCs were more tolerable to me.
    Did you manage to get better from your BPPV?
    Thank you again for sharing your experiencie.
  8. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    The clinic said I did NOT show any signs of BPPV.

    I experience what I sometimes call "brain fog" or vague imbalance or fuzzy-headedness" because it's hard to describe and it changes as it comes and goes. It's worse when I'm stressed out, it's better when I practice mindfulness and when I journal, and I don't notice it at all when I'm out doing something fun that totally distracts me.

    What I like to say these days is that I have a completely different relationship with it, because it no longer scares me.
    Allund likes this.
  9. TalkDoc

    TalkDoc Newcomer

    I have found that dizziness is most definitely part of the symptom imperative for me at times... Assuming I have been eating okay and am hydrated, I chock it up to TMS every time and don't pay it any mind..
  10. Allund

    Allund Peer Supporter

    Thank you JanAtheCPA, I also think once you stop being afraid of your symptoms you usually get better. That is what I experienced with PVCs, but now it seems I have to work with vertigo and dizxiness, as this really scares me a lot. I am also working with mindfulness.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  11. Colly

    Colly Beloved Grand Eagle

    I recently had a bout of dizziness Allund which scared the hell out of me too. It always happened after my morning run, and was stopping me from running for fear of an attack.

    I saw my doctor (who has a mind body approach), and she reassured me that it was TMS. I changed my running routine to throw it off track and also took a vacation and didn't run for a week. This approach worked for me.

    When you feel scared it amplifies TMS symptoms. Read Claire Weeks book: Hope and help for your nerves, as this offers simple yet effective solution to the fear-symptom cycle. I always reach for her book when I feel any fear surfacing, and her book and her soothing words dissipate my fear.
  12. Allund

    Allund Peer Supporter

    Thank you Colly! I am still getting vertigo when laying down and rolling and it is really umconfortable. I will definitely look for the book you are suggesting. I feel like a growing fear inside me, everytime I have physical symptoms I get really scared, this circle is something I have to work with.
  13. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Claire Weekes calls it "giddiness" but it's clear that's just her term for dizziness (or is it an Australian term, Colly? Or maybe just rather old-fashioned, since Dr. Weekes was writing in the 60s?). Whatever it's called, dizziness/giddiness/vertigo/brain fog/balance problems... it's a really common symptom for people with anxiety. Hope and Help for Your Nerves, along with with Dr. Sarno, saved my life and turned it around.
    Allund likes this.
  14. Simplicity

    Simplicity Guest

    I just bought that book and I can't wait to read it. I hope that it will help me with my anxiety; it has really increased since I started working on my tms issues. I'm glad that I've taken this step though, I just need to work through it. I'm happy I found this forum, so many great tips!
    mike2014 and JanAtheCPA like this.
  15. Simplicity

    Simplicity Guest

    Is BPPV tms as well? I've had it many years ago and it took four years for the doctors to figure out what it was. I had to sit up and sleep for two of those years. It was a nightmare to say the least, very traumatizing not knowing what was wrong. So, I have some anxiety connected with vertigo, constantly being afraid that I will experience it. I always thought that the BPPV was due to the fact that I suffered an work-related injury (I worked as a horse trainer), although benign, just prior to getting it.
  16. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hey again, Simplicity:happy:

    The thing about TMS (or what we conveniently refer to as TMS, even when we're talking about non-muscle symptoms like dizziness) is that your brain will commonly choose an area of the body that you subconsciously already perceive as weak. Or where you might have had a previous injury, although it's fully-healed. But that's just one mechanism that causes symptoms.

    The other mechanism is the well-documented long-term physiological changes brought about by constant stress, which includes anxiety-type stress (firing the fight-or-flight response all the time) OR the stress of long-term deep emotional repression (as described really well by Dr. Gabor Mate in When The Body Says No).

    So, BPPV. The medical profession think that BPPV is caused by crystals in the ear canal, right? Effectively treated with the Epley maneuver, but it often comes back. The thing is, do they have a clue what causes the crystals? I don't think they do, which in our world, means that it is highly likely to be a physiological phenomenon brought about, probably, by the second mechanism, which is long-term stress and emotional repression. Sounds like bad news, right? Turns out it is NOT.

    Have you had a chance to watch the movie I've been recommending since yesterday? It's called The Connection, produced by an Australian journalist named Shannon Harvey, who was diagnosed with a serious auto-immune condition (lupus, I think) and who completely recovered using mind-body awareness, knowledge and techniques. I bought the DVD last year when it came out, but yesterday Shannon put it up for free viewing for a week, to celebrate the first anniversary of its release. All you have to do is give your email address, which I did more than a year ago, before the release, and it has not been abused. I only get about one email a month when Shannon posts to her blog - always with interesting new news about the mind body "Connection".

    The GOOD news, as her movie tells us, is that we can REVERSE physiological changes we've suffered due to long-term stress, repression, and anxiety! Dr. Mate tells us the same thing, but this movie does it in just a little over an hour, and it's really well-done and compelling. I can't recommend it enough: https://www.theconnection.tv/store/
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2015
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  17. Simplicity

    Simplicity Guest

    Yes, this makes sense. When I first started taking the Unlearn Your Pain course I got dizzy within the first week and I had to re-train my brain and succeeded in making it stop. I was really proud of that achievement, that I instead of freaking out about it walked straight into it and made it stop; it was my first big step in getting better. No matter the cause of BPPV, my history with it has definitely created later episodes of vertigo when I get stressed.

    Vertigo makes you feel powerless, afraid... out of control... but it is all a trick, it is untrue - you have the power to change it, to take control. In fact the one thing that made it stop was that I said to myself: -I have the control, I have the control... like a mantra.

    It was recommended to me yesterday and I'm planning to watch it tonight, it seems to be a very interesting film! To be able to recover from an autoimmune disease is just mind-blowing... wow... :)
    mike2014 and JanAtheCPA like this.
  18. Allund

    Allund Peer Supporter


    in fact BPPV seems to be produced by some really small "stones" in the inner ear, they change from one channel to another and you start feeling the vertigo. Some physical maneuver may help, like the Epley one.
    In my case the thing is that somehow I have "learnt" that getting dizzy is really dangerous, and when I am in a stressful situation, or I get nervous I am probably feeling dizzy. So it seems there are both "physical" and "mental" reasons behind it. Even those little stones may be produced because of stress, as doctors do not know how to explain it.
    So for me it has become a nightmare, it is really frightening and even if I am not feeling it, I am afraid because the dizziness could appear!

    I am also working on meditation and mindfulness and I think that my body having these strange symptoms (now it is dizziness but I have had PVCs also) is because it is a way for me to get distracted from my feelings and emotions. I think I have learnt to avoid contacting with what I feel (whatever it is, anger, sadness...) and this way I get distracted... It is something I am watching lately and working on.
    I will let you know about my advances.
  19. Simplicity

    Simplicity Guest

    I can so relate to living in fear of getting dizzy. It's hard to explain to someone that hasn't felt it and that doesn't have anxiety connected to it, just how frightening it can be. It's still a battle for me that has been going on for about 15 years or so. It's only now that I have found these tools that I feel that I have the control and that I will be able to conquer it. Stay strong, it is possible to get better.
    mike2014, JanAtheCPA and Allund like this.
  20. Allund

    Allund Peer Supporter

    Simplicity, it is true that this is something difficult to understand for people who have not gone through this. Sometimes I even try to hide my anxiety and my fear, to the people close to me, workmates, friends and even family. I guess I am also embarrassed to feel like this...
    I really hope we will get better, in the end I want to believe that this situation is showing and teaching us things about ourselves, that we wouldn't have learnt in other way.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2015
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