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Discouraged after seeing TMS doctor

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by avalon22, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. avalon22

    avalon22 Newcomer

    I suffer from Sciatica along with lower back pain on and off. I was pretty confident that it was all TMS.

    I saw a TMS doctor yesterday, who told me it might be a combination of structural/neurological issues along with TMS. He is ordering an MRI. Just knowing that there is a possible structural issue is making me feel so discouraged.

    My pain is way worse today and I'm very upset by the whole thing. Can anyone relate?
  2. Gigalos

    Gigalos Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Avalon,
    It might be... so he didn't say it definitely was... (?) Try to tell your brain that it is of no use to speculate about the possibility.
    In a way he acts like every TMS doctor should act, which is to rule out serious conditions first.
    Also, just like with any doctor you can go for a second opinion.
    hang in there and take care
  3. Free of Fear

    Free of Fear Well known member

    Oh gosh, I can imagine how difficult that must be.

    Just remember that even structural issues aren't ultimately responsible for creating pain. Pain is a product of the brain. Having a structural issue doesn't condemn you to pain. And if it turns out that pain will be present, you have the power to modulate it and still live an incredible life.
  4. avalon22

    avalon22 Newcomer

    Thanks. I'm hanging in. He did say he believes it is TMS but can't be sure there isn't something structural contributing. I have an MRI tomorrow! Looking forward to having more answers.
  5. avalon22

    avalon22 Newcomer

    Thank you, that is helpful! I hadn't thought of it that way.
  6. Clarity

    Clarity New Member

    I don't suppose the doctor you saw was Dr. Schechter? I've been reading a lot about him giving out lots of 'mixed' diagnoses lately, even to people the other TMS doctors have later told are very clearly TMS. He even did a paid endorsement for a 'back stretching' machine... Steve Ozanich posted about it on one of the Facebook groups. If it was him, I would totally discard his option!
    Tennis Tom likes this.
  7. avalon22

    avalon22 Newcomer

    It was!!
    I was so excited to see a student of Dr. Sarno's and then I was discouraged that he seemed to disagree with a lot of Sarno's points. Luckily I have had a couple sessions with a therapist at the Pain Psychology centre and they are going to send my MRI results to Dr. Schubiner. So I'll have a second opinion. I'm going to see Dr. Schechter today to hear about my results of MRI so I'll try not to take everything he says as definite.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
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  8. avalon22

    avalon22 Newcomer

    I definitely now "believe" that it is structural because of what he told me... Since the pain has been getting progressively worse and I'm setting myself up for him telling me that it is structural.. My brain has totally discounted the TMS theory. which is so sad, because maybe it still is TMS. I'm just so confused and the pain is so much worse.. but if it is TMS it makes sense that the fear of structural problems could cause the pain to get much worse!
    I'm not on facebook, but does Steve Ozanich discount these ideas of Dr. Schechter's?
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  9. Free of Fear

    Free of Fear Well known member

    I really feel for you!

    At the very least though, you know that TMS is a big part of it - your pain got much worse when your thinking changed. That is pain caused by emotional-psychological factors - TMS.
    avalon22, Dorado, Lizzy and 1 other person like this.
  10. ash86

    ash86 Peer Supporter

    It has been my experience that Dr Schubiner and Dr Hanscom are more confident ruling out the structural changes. I think it helps to realize both Schubiner and Hanscom have experinced tms pain and fully recovered despite their own mri changes. They have knowledge and experience. Plus they are clearly passionate about this cause. Dr Schecter has only experience knee pain in college. Its good he acknowledges tms and has helped some but I dont consider him the best authority on tms.
    MindBodyPT, avalon22 and Tennis Tom like this.
  11. ash86

    ash86 Peer Supporter

    Screenshot_20181003-204840.png I have this screenshot saved on my phone. I read the highlighted part when i start to worry. This is quoted from Dr. Hanscom.
  12. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    This post caught my eye for some reason. Dr Schubiner is wonderful!! Definitely consult with him! Don't let one person's opinion etc. have any significance and don't give it more meaning than it actually has.
    MindBodyPT, avalon22 and Dorado like this.
  13. Clarity

    Clarity New Member

    Yes, he very strongly disagrees. I would stay away from any interviews/books/websites from Schechter or Dr. Hanscom, both like to have a foot in both camps. Dr. Hanscom still does back surgery... just 'less often' but he seems to be slowly coming around. I would advise not listening too or reading anything of theirs (there is a very recent, very sad, TMS podcast interview when Schechter says that it's only small herniations, and only ones that don't line up with pain, that don't cause pain!!! Even many 'traditional' doctors would disagree with this!
    avalon22 and Dorado like this.
  14. Dorado

    Dorado Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yup, agreed with @Clarity on everything. And @miffybunny is right - Dr. Schubiner is the man.

    I had a pain psychologist go against the neurologist who referred me to him and say I probably did have alcoholic neuropathy (from one weekend of binge drinking - IMPOSSIBLE). He was wrong, but it was devastating at the time and set me back completely. I even posted on here about researching assisted suicide in another country. Can you imagine? He was completely incorrect! My neurologist was livid.

    So true. Nobody is hopeless - structural or not: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/training-the-brain-to-beat-pain/news-story/45ad7b7daaaf3c4bbbab6c76b0190ac7 (Nocookies)
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
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  15. avalon22

    avalon22 Newcomer

    @Free of Fear @Gigalos @Clarity @Caulfield @miffybunny @ash86

    Thank you all sooo much for your comments/support. It really made me feel a lot better when I got home and read these.

    I had an interesting experience today. I was having a very anxious day. I felt a lot of guilt about hiring our sitter all day which is expensive for us and then she got a parking ticket which I felt responsible for which made me feel so guilty and anxious. I was also scared about the MRI results to come...
    I sat down in Dr Schechter's office with terrible pain and numbness sciatic tingling down my left leg. I was ready to hear my results. I saw the images of the disc protrusion. L5S1 with a 12mm bulge. I cried when he told me. He said that is what is causing the pain. He prescribed meloxicam for the inflammation and gabapentin for the nerve pain. He said I can continue with the mind body work and also walk/swim/do yoga pilates if it feels good. He said I'll get better. But he doesn't seem to think TMS plays much of a part! It's exactly what you said @Clarity, he believes that pain with small herniations is TMS but larger ones do cause pain. Did Dr Sarno discriminate based on size of herniation?? I was discouraged but also determined to not take his word as the final diagnosis.

    Anyway I left his office kind of discouraged and decided to listen to a TMS podcast in traffic on the way home. I listened to an interview with Steve Ozanich on the way home. By the time I got home I felt so much better. I took my daughter for a walk and felt better than I had all week. It's possible that the meloxicam that I took this morning finally kicked in? But I think I had a TMS breakthrough. I decided that whether it's structural or not, I need to get out of the FEAR/ANXIETY and live my life. I felt so much better getting out and doing something then staying home and resting in my fear.

    Question for you folks or others: Does anyone know anyone with such a large protrusion who's pain turned out to be TMS?

    I'm going to send my results to Dr. Schubiner also and see what he thinks about the meds. I'm a little uneasy about getting on gabapentin.

    I'm still a little unsure about where to go from here but I think Steve Ozanich's book would be a good next step for me. What else would you all recommend? I've listened to healing back pain a few times, reading Mind Body prescription now. Should I do Alan Gordon's program now?

    thanks again for all the support!
  16. ash86

    ash86 Peer Supporter

  17. ash86

    ash86 Peer Supporter

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  18. ash86

    ash86 Peer Supporter

  19. ash86

    ash86 Peer Supporter

    Last thing... there is another study that showed in people with sciatica, they did follow up mris. Once their symptoms fully resolved, some mris were exactly the same. And in the group that didnt recover, some of the cases the mri no longer showed herniation, yet symptoms were the same.
    Baseball65 and avalon22 like this.
  20. Clarity

    Clarity New Member

    Email Steve and ask him if he's seen people with 12mm herniations heal. I'm guessing the answer is a YES. Think of Nicole Sachs. She has a MASSIVE defect in her spine and is now fine. Her video is on this page somewhere.
    avalon22 and miffybunny like this.

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