1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this link: http://go.tmswiki.org/newprogram
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New Program Day 4: Breaking the Pain Cycle

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Alan Gordon LCSW, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. adria

    adria Peer Supporter

    Yiur posts are always so great. My biggest problem is that when start to feel better i stop putting in the work and revert back to my old mindsets. Gotta keep working until it becomes second nature. I have a flare uo right now and it is consuming. I am trying to put in the work now.
    Balsa11 likes this.
  2. normanyogi

    normanyogi New Member

    Hi Nicole, I can totally identify with this! I am also a cyclist who has recently been diagnosed with pudendal neuralgia. I am having such a hard time figuring out if my pain is caused by something structural or if it is simply TMS picking a spot in my body where it would make sense for me to have pain. It's quite tricky, isn't it?!? In any case, I wanted to let you know that you are not alone, and yes, you can still have a relationship with pelvic pain. I also really struggle with the fear of the pain, but I have lately come to the realization that I have to keep living my life and not let the fear paralyze me. I also recently purchased a new saddle that takes all the pain off my perineum. Some TMSers might think it's a crutch, but my Brooks is no longer an option for me. Keep your head up. You will get better!!
    Balsa11 and Bodhigirl like this.
  3. NicoleB34

    NicoleB34 Well known member

    I was able to get my mountain bike life back with a Rido saddle. It mimics a noseless saddle, but your sitbones are up on a shelf and the nose is recessed so if you lean forward, there is no soft tissue pressure. however, i'm still only at 10-20% of my original time and miles compared to what i used to. But it's growing by the months. I went from not even being able to sit on a bike, to 2-3 miles, then 5 miles on average (before the burning set in and i had to turn around) and by changing my fear of riding, and not doing all sorts of things before and after each ride because i feared "damage", also, looking at each ride as fun thing with my friends and trying not to think of PN at all, i'm up to 15-20 miles per ride now! (thats a lot for mountain biking). I flare mildly, but nothing like before. I did all this with just my mind. Now i'm working on trying to ride at least twice a week. I used to flare when i did anything more than once a week, but now and then, i can go more than that without much pain.

    ps, the saddle made it possible to ride. I did one ride on a "normal" but comfortable saddle, and got shocking PN pains in my crotch all night after. It was weird, because i had no pain during the ride and it was a leisurely 5 mile road ride. I never once had any obvious fear of the saddle, but perhaps some unconscious thing told me that i might get hurt. Those are reasons why it's so hard to ditch the "structural" fear. I look at it this way, the nerve IS sensitive. if you beat on it, it will hurt. However, it's sensitive because our brain jacked up the volume knob. Its up to us to get the brain to turn it back down.
    Balsa11 and normanyogi like this.
  4. normanyogi

    normanyogi New Member

    Thanks for sharing this. The Rido looks interesting, and I think I would be able to generate more power with that saddle than with my current one (a Spiderflex). You definitely lose some power when you're not able to grip the horn with the inside of your legs. I'm more fortunate than some in the sense that my PN is a mild case. My flare ups are getting less frequent, and the overall trajectory of my journey leads towards healing. But man it's slow, and I've had to learn a lot about myself and the process of healing to deal with the mental aspect of it.
    Balsa11 likes this.
  5. Shells

    Shells Peer Supporter

    This happened to me with yoga and other forms of exercise. I have no idea how not to monitor my movement patterns when I'm hurting because I've done it for so long! My current trainer said "don't think about what your body is doing" and I honestly have no clue!! I don't remember.
    Balsa11 likes this.
  6. Tala

    Tala New Member

    That is a good observation. I'm thinking for me I need to admit the fear, while showing compassion for myself. Kind of "I'm okay despite having this pain." Telling myself I am strong would seem like a lie because I do not believe it. My husband tells me all the time that I am strong for living so well with pain-- we are probably all stronger than we think, if only we could believe it.
    Balsa11 likes this.
  7. Tala

    Tala New Member

    James59, I can relate to your post. When I had my initial onset of pain and the doctors could not help me, I found some relief with Somatics (I believe Thomas Hanna, the creator was trained by Feldenkrais). To this day, I watch how I move. I can't seem to get over that part. I just really think if I keep good alignment my body won't wear out as quickly. I don't sit haphazardly EVER.
  8. Amatxu

    Amatxu New Member

    i am so very grateful to this forum and to Alan. I had (MD diagnosed with cystoscopy) for 30 years. Lately it has been worse than ever and that is with trying new supplements, limiting diet. i have many more symptoms now including fibro, chronic fatigue, TMJ....
    I live in eastern nc, and there are no TMS specialists near me. so i am grateful to have found Dr. Sarnos work on utube. i am really grateful to read success and progress stories from pelvic pain sufferers.
    Balsa11 likes this.
  9. Click#7

    Click#7 Well known member

    I have pain all the time. At times I feel I have no fear...so what's that all about ? If you have no fear shouldn't the pain dissipate ? I think my pain is a gradually decreasing in intensity. So I realize everyone is different. Another question for the group...just because I have pain in one particular spot doesn't mean it's NOT TMS right ? Many complain of low back pain and to me that's one area ........
  10. Sita

    Sita Well known member

    It can be anger and it comes from the subconscious mind. Or fear but you don't feel it like real fear. This fear might come also from subconscious mind and could appear in certain life situations.
    I started to feel anger some time ago, when all the sex scandals came on the news. I was in pain right away and my sleep was affected. At the time I was not aware of my anger and had no idea about the relationship between repressed emotions (any emotions) ,pain and sleep. Then I felt other emotions, disgust, deep sadness, even fear. Sometimes I recognize the fear, it's palpable and I enter a state where I'm hipper vigilant about my surroundings. Other times, not so much, the fear might be there but I can't feel it. The fact is, sometimes is still difficult to "feel my feelings". This comes from my childhood so it's a learned behavior. A few weeks ago I found the 21 day - Program on this forum and started to work on it and...was able to "see" the connection between all these emotions and my pain. I was pain free for 3 days last weekend and it was great. But then the fear started to come back again, and then to increase. Gradually. And then the pain came back. With a vengeance. I don't care anymore now, plus it moves around, it's not just lower back pain, it's upper or middle or sometimes in the left leg. When I don't pay attention to it and just ignore it...it's much better. I work out, vacuum, basically ...I don't give a crap about the pain.

    Don't lose hope!
  11. Click#7

    Click#7 Well known member

    I feel like I am getting better slowly times then I have some symptoms that come and go and some that stick like glue. I wish I could feel more emotionally....might get a therapist to help me.
    Sita likes this.
  12. hopefuldan

    hopefuldan New Member

    Thanks very much for this thoughtful and insightful program!

    I am a bit unclear about the approach in this program, or at least today's lesson. It seems to emphasize overcoming your pain by not being afraid of it. I guess the idea is fear feeds the pain and keeps it alive whereas letting go and realizing there is nothing to fear releases the pain. Where I am confused is how this approach relates with Sarno's views on TMS. As far as I can tell, Sarno thought the solution to pain was to acknowledge the emotions (i.e. rage, sadness, etc...) and to find ways to release these emotions, or at least not let these emotions cause pain. Until we get to the bottom of what's eating us up inside, the pain, anxiety, depression, etc... will persist.

    These two approaches to stopping TMS seem quite different or am I missing something?

    Thanks so much!
  13. MindBodyPT

    MindBodyPT Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Dan,

    Alan Gordon and other more current TMS professionals have taken the TMS concept further and studied it a bit more in recent years. So yes, the emphasis is a bit different than Dr. Sarno's original ideas but still with the same concepts. Sarno believed acknowledging the emotions and learning that there was nothing wrong with your back (or other body part) would cure you. Alan and others do not disagree with this philosophy, in fact, they emphasize the same concepts. They also take it farther by using a more modern, neuroscience based approach of taking down the fear factor around the pain in addition. Many advances have been make in our understanding of the brain since Sarno formulated his theories decades ago. The basic concepts hold but more has been added. Our brains and emotions are complex and we probably won't know the "exact" thing causing the pain because there isn't just one thing! It may be a combination of unacknowledged emotions, as Sarno says, plus the fear/pain cycle going out of control, as Alan teaches. They aren't incompatible, both can fuel the continuation of the TMS. Hope that helps.
    Hayley, chemgirl, westb and 5 others like this.
  14. LindenSwole

    LindenSwole Peer Supporter

    When I was deep in the abyss of pain about a year ago - during the time of seeing a new doctor every week - I was the opposite of Outcome Independent. I would wake up and feel okay and then I'd get out of bed and all of the muscles along my spine would just lock up. Because of this, I knew it would be a terrible day.

    Now, this is a great strategy to not have my entire day dictated by the first few minutes out of bed. The pain is not good nor bad, it just is.
    Balsa11 likes this.
  15. adria

    adria Peer Supporter

    I have been having stronger back pain for the past month or so. I have psoriasis and i am worried that the new pain in my fingers and hips is Psoriatic Arthritis. I am supposed to get an Mri but i am worried that if they tell me something is wrong with me it will worsen my pain. What do u guys think...should I go.
  16. Bodhigirl

    Bodhigirl Well known member

    Oh, gosh! I am going through the program again because I am having my fourth migraine is four weeks! I am so afraid of having a stroke!
    My neck is in pain. My muscles are all knotted up in my scapula. I am tense. The news makes me bonkers. I wake up with dread nearly every day that our country has been divided up and thrown under the bus. I don’t feel safe.
    I am afraid.
    The perfect video for me to see today! I moved my head along with the subject and I cried with her. It was a relief. And for the moment my pain is gone.
    What a journey this has been so far! And I have been deliberately feeling feelings for 32 years! Purposefully, deliberately. Mostly with the intention of kindness. Yet my symptoms return.
    I need to do this work daily without taking my healthy body for granted.
    I am aging. I am afraid. I can feel fear and not generate pain. But yeah, wow, I am really really afraid.
    Balsa11 likes this.
  17. James59

    James59 Well known member

    Bodhigirl, the news is driving me bonkers, too. Every time some new frightening absurdity happens (a daily occurrence now) my body gets a little more tense. One thing that helps me put it in perspective is a middle-of-the-night news program on ABC called World News Now. They summarize the main news stories of the day, but they don't dwell on the bad news. They also spend a good deal of time reporting on the fun, happy, and quirky things happening around the world which I find refreshing. It's too bad it's only on in the wee hours. No problem for me because I'm a night owl, but I think everyone would benefit if prime time news spent some time on the positive stuff, too.
    Balsa11, chemgirl and Bodhigirl like this.
  18. Bodhigirl

    Bodhigirl Well known member

    I opened up to your question... and hope it’s gotten better for you. When I am in pain, I ask the pain, “if I weren’t feeling you, what emotions might I be feeling?”
    Rewiring the brain, a long journey; it gets better.
    chemgirl likes this.
  19. Bodhigirl

    Bodhigirl Well known member

    Thanks! I stream that program in my car, sometimes. I like BBC, I hear about the whole world but still we are scaring the whole world right now.
  20. chemgirl

    chemgirl New Member

    I was also once told I had that. I did the Dr. Fugazzotto augmentin antibiotics program for 5 months and it went away. Came back two more times. Did the same thing. But, during the third round of antibiotics, I read about TMS. I started journaling, brain talk, etc...very slowly weaned completely off the antibiotics (which, in retrospect, may have been a placebo)and was fine.

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