1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
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New Program Day 3: Identifying the Source

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Alan Gordon LCSW, Jul 13, 2017.

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  1. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Welcome to the forum @Chris909, and thanks for the good review of where you are at with this process, it really helps!

    OMG OMG OMG OMG WHAT IF WHAT IF WHAT IF WHAT IF WHAT IF?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This, my friend, is your brain on TMS. It's the classic WHAT IF? dialogue. Also called Catastrophizing. Just search that word, and see what comes up. Catastrophizing goes hand-in-hand with Rumination, another mental activity that is fully recognized by mental health professionals as unhealthy. Both are obessive activites, and all obsessive activites (including full-on OCD) are, in varying degrees of severity, examples of the TMS repression mechanism at work.

    In other words, when your brian engages in this kind of thing, it is a DISTRACTION against thoughts that your brain is repressing for your protection.

    I looked up Dr. Fanestil who is clearly following the newer path of nervous system retraining (and reframing) (eg: PRT) without talking a whole lot about the emotional repression aspect. In the the opinion of many of us here, emotional distress and repression are still hugely important to unlocking the mystery of chronic pain as well as chronic mental health conditions for many people. Dr. F does briefly mention childhood trauma, which is crucial. It is my completely non-professional opinion, based only upon fairly close observation and participation on this forum over twelve years, that Adverse Childhood Experiences are very closely associated with lifelong depression and/or anxiety as well as chronic pain and other syndromes.

    The acronym is ACEs. There's a list of ten Yes or NO questions that have been created, called variously the ACEs Quiz or Test. Taking this quick quiz for yourself (with 100% honesty!) might be an informative thing to bring to your sessions with Dr. Fanestil. All it takes is one or two adverse childhood experiences to affect mental (and physical) health for life. Here is a good place for it: Take The ACE Quiz — And Learn What It Does And Doesn't Mean : Shots - Health News : NPR - be sure to read the article before and after answering the questions - like most NPR articles, it's not long.

    Even those of us with essentially zero Yes responses can have fairly typical "Sarno-type" TMS - I found a Yes response that covered a few years of my early childhood - which I think contributed to the lifelong anxiety that my first-time older mother "gave" me in utero, but that's another story.

    I can offer one more response to your original question, which is that some people with trauma do find that although nervous system retraining can help, they will continue to struggle with "dis-ease" until they properly process the trauma - which is where psychotherapy comes in. So yes, there is another step - but, very importantly, there is absolutely NO benefit to be gained by allowing your TMS brain to obsess about it now.

    Doing this work effectively really requires taking it one step at a time. Practice giving in, letting go, and creating mindful practices to calm yourself whenever you recognize that your fearful brain is trying to manipulate you into being fearful. That is, after all, its job. You can thank it kindly for trying to protect you, then proactively move toward a more constructive frame of mind where you can do the necessary work.

    Good luck!
     
    JanAtheCPA, Oct 15, 2023
    #101
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  2. butterfly86

    butterfly86 New Member

    Hi,
    Im new to this program and very thankful for this free program!. Just had one question, im up to day 3 and wondered is there more to the pages? the pages seem quite short? i just wanted to make sure im not missing out on anything and just getting snippets. Thinking maybe i have to pay to get the full content?
    thanks
     
    butterfly86, Jul 6, 2025
    #102
  3. BloodMoon

    BloodMoon Beloved Grand Eagle

    @butterfly86 No, nothing to pay to get any more, that's the full SEP. A lot of the daily tasks are short but it all gradually builds upon itself as you go along and it is profound. If you haven't already done so, it's a good idea to read a book by Dr Sarno, e.g. The Divided Mind.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2025
    BloodMoon, Jul 6, 2025
    #103
    butterfly86 and JanAtheCPA like this.
  4. butterfly86

    butterfly86 New Member

    Thankyou much appreciate this... i will look into getting the book as i havnt read it. thanks
     
    butterfly86, Jul 7, 2025
    #104
    BloodMoon likes this.
  5. mazmar

    mazmar Newcomer

    Hello Alan

    I have been experiencing pain in my right hip for about 10 yeads niw, and for the last 3 or 4 yearsvI feel I have been making some progress through reading about TMS, DIMs and SIMS, Sarno, Steve Ozanich, Dan Buglio etc - so much so that even with a diagnosis of severe OA I can walk 5-8 miles several times a week with manageable pain. I do have to rest a bit for a day after doing this though. I am really disheartened and co fused after an appointment with a surgeon last weekend who took one look at the Xray, told me how terrible it looked and said in no uncertain terms I need a hip replacement. I don't want intrusive surgery, but this has really put doubt in my mind that it is TMS, especially as the pain doesn't move around. Are there instances where a diagnosis of severe OA has been healed with a TMS approach?
     
    mazmar, Nov 27, 2025
    #105
    Fabi likes this.
  6. Fabi

    Fabi Well known member

    Hi mazmar, I am sorry you have this situation. What comes to my mind is the thought that from a surgeon you can´t expect a note saying you will be ok as you are. It´s either you need a replacement or you don´t . Did he explain why? Did you let him know about your walks? Is this the first time it is advised? How about a second opinion?
    My doctor asked me if I was able to do sth vitaly important for me with the pain I have. He is an advocate of how neural pathways in the brain are created by signals firing info about real danger, which is not. And, today I have a terrible flu, I suffer from migranes, so when I communicated with him he said, you apparently have the flu headache on top of the rest. And yes, it comforted me. I didn´t create this flu to suffer more. Sometimes real bodily issues need to be treated. Sometimes a replacement, an antibiotic, surgery is required, and sometimes it is the flu headache.

    If it helped you to read and walk, just go on mazmar. Just realize the hip will still be there if you decide to have the surgery. Talk to someone else. Surgery is surgery meaning it is always intrusive, a C-section is major surgery.

    r
     
    Fabi, Nov 27, 2025
    #106
    mazmar likes this.
  7. mazmar

    mazmar Newcomer

    Hello Fabi

    Thank you for your for your reply. You are lucky to have had a surgeon who understands and supports the neuroplastic pain route. This is what I have been doing too and I feel it has helped. If you saw me this time 5 years ago, I was in agony and thinking I'd need a replacement very soon!
    Yet, none of the professionals I have seen support me in my 'alternative' approach. I am also using visualisation. There are certain movements I can't make e.g crossing my legs, but this has minimal impact, and the overall impact on my life is currently not severe enough for me to want surgery.

    I told him about my walking yes, and that it doesn't stop me sleeping etc, but he seemed to know better than me what an impact it was having and said I was putting on a brave face and more impacted than I let on. I know my own body! Yes, I have approached my GP to be referred for a 2nd opinion.
     
    mazmar, Nov 28, 2025
    #107
    Fabi likes this.
  8. BloodMoon

    BloodMoon Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi @mazmar. Just to say that, unfortunately, I don't think it's likely that you'll get a reply from Alan Gordon as he's not active on the forums these days; he hasn't posted since August 2021.
     
    BloodMoon, Nov 28, 2025
    #108
    mazmar likes this.
  9. mazmar

    mazmar Newcomer

    Oh OK, thanks for letting me know - Responses from others with experience are welcome too :)
     
    mazmar, Nov 28, 2025
    #109
    BloodMoon likes this.
  10. Fabi

    Fabi Well known member

    Sometimes the trauma we get at doctor 's Offices is dismissed. This is a decision you need to make with somebody You trust! It doesnt matter if they believe in the same things You do. If You get the replacement You Are in better shape for recovery and if You don't just go on!
     
    Fabi, Nov 28, 2025
    #110
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