1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
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New Program Day 3: Identifying the Source

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Alan Gordon LCSW, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. MentorCoach

    MentorCoach Peer Supporter

    I feel like because of ALL the evidence I have experienced in my own personal situation that I belief STRONGLY that I have TMS! So here's the thing, for me...I don't feel like my fear is that "I'll injure myself even more, structurally, or however" -- I feel like my fear is that "I don't want to feel the pain" and so I fear the pain itself and not the fear of hurting myself further in some way. Does anyone else feel this way? Am I really just comparing apples to apples and in a deeper way, it's the same fear?
    kim marie, harmony, Shells and 5 others like this.
  2. MicheleRenee

    MicheleRenee Peer Supporter

    im the same.
  3. annfitz

    annfitz New Member

    You are singing my song! I've never been afraid of structural damage, but can't "accept" the pain in a way that allows it to leave, apparently. I have tried!!
  4. Alan Gordon LCSW

    Alan Gordon LCSW TMS Therapist

    Guys, you are right. I was going to address this more thoroughly in the section on fear, but for the sake of cohesiveness, it really does belong in this section.

    In truth, it's the fear around the pain that reinforces to the primitive brain that there is damage, even if consciously you know there is none. The way to communicate to this primitive part of your brain that there is no damage is to neutralize the fear around the pain. It's simply easier to neutralize the fear around the pain if, on a logical level, you accept the TMS diagnosis. I will update this section to include this.

    Jaxson, James, this has been a dilemma for me. I used to write "pain and other physical symptoms" over and over, but I shortened it to pain for the sake of brevity and because that is the most common way TMS manifests.

    But TMS can present with any danger signal: pain, numbness, tingling, Dizziness, Tinnitus, burning, itching, etc. All of these signals warn of us of danger in one way or another, and you can replace "pain" with any one of them and it still holds. Sorry for the confusion.

    tag24, westb and Penny2007 like this.
  5. Emerson

    Emerson New Member

    So I I can accept the TMS diagnosis. I just played tennis and I am not afraid of damaging myself. But I am sick of the pain. I think my FEAR is that the cure won't work. So I am in the position of being willing to do and try different things without fear, but in a kind of TMS limbo, not feeling relief.
  6. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Alan, I have to agree with Jackson too....

    I have pain, but also tightness and burning etc.

    I think 'pain/symptoms' as jckson said is the most concise way to put it. Maybe you don't have to write it every time, but just the first instance of a paragraph or article? It's more inclusive
  7. Penny2007

    Penny2007 formerly Pain2007

    @Alan Gordon LCSW

    I "discovered" TMS 10 years ago and believe I have it but since it keeps rearing its ugly head I have a certain level of despair that I will never be able to conquer it - is this a variation of not accepting the TMS diagnosis?

    Sometimes I think of TMS itself as the "disease" or condition that I have in the same way a person would think of Fibromyalgia or something similar. Of late I've been thinking that I may always have a certain level of pain and/or episodes of acute pain, anxiety etc. and maybe I should just make peace with that and stop fighting it. Is this a type of not accepting the diagnosis or is it helpful because with acceptance comes not caring so much about the pain which lowers the fuel that drives it.
  8. CarboNeVo

    CarboNeVo Well known member

    That's it! finally someone talked about the FEAR from the pain itself.
    I am one of those (maybe very few) who immediately embraced the theory because my TMS is stupid, it just keeps jumping from a place to another which no other illness has the capacity to do, I see alot of people have the struggle to accept that tms is psychological and not structural.
    But i struggle with the idea that it's psychological by itself, which ofcourse feeds the fear hence the symptoms worsen.
    My pain disappears in once place and appears on another which creeps the hell out of me, I guess my brain found a way to keep me focused(hence monitoring and analyzing the pain) which keeps me in that cycle.
    When totally distracted, my pain instantly disappears, like in few minutes its gone.
    Any ideas on this Alan?
    Also I asked you 2 questions in the 2nd section, if you get an opportunity please check them.
    Thank you
  9. D'niceTMS

    D'niceTMS New Member

    For me, I was 95% certain my symptoms were TMS. In seeing a TMS/MBS practitioner, I became 100% certain that MBS was the correct diagnosis. Having belief and faith in the competence of my practitioner, Dr. Howard Schubiner, allowed me to follow his 28 day program without wavering from the diagnosis, even on "bad days." For me, belief and acceptance went "hand in hand."
    MentorCoach likes this.
  10. Sandpiper

    Sandpiper New Member

    Alan your work on pain is brilliant -- when I was racked by doubt and hope last autumn this was exactly how it worked ... at the time I listened to your powerful audio clips on the site and they helped a lot. Want to thank you for everything you've made freely available online and hope this new programme helps many many people!
  11. jodib

    jodib Peer Supporter

    I am hopeful. But-cant get why it doesn't get any better. the hip and lower back pain is always there. I don't have fear. I sit at a desk all day. I just don't get why it doesn't get any better after a year of knowing its TMS. But, I am hopeful.
    caligirlgonegreen likes this.
  12. MicheleRenee

    MicheleRenee Peer Supporter

    yes this. i also agree that it frightens me that the pain is psychological in origin as well. it didnt at first but has migratted to that. that if i think something will cause the pain. it will. because its psychological.
    readytoheal and MentorCoach like this.
  13. MicheleRenee

    MicheleRenee Peer Supporter

    i think this is exactly your aim... although it feels strange. when you accept youll have the pain forever that is true outcome independence.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2017
    caligirlgonegreen and Penny2007 like this.
  14. NicoleB34

    NicoleB34 Well known member

    I have delayed pain after actvity, much like you'd have muscle pain a day after intense exercise. Only in my case, it's pelvic nerve pain (pudendal). Are there any other TMS'ers that have this delayed pain? This is where my doubt comes from. I was an avid cyclist who hates other exercise, and desperately wants my life back. i have hideous depression without it. So i said f**k it months after my PN diagnosis, and bought a special saddle, and started riding again slowly. Sometimes i was ok...sometimes i would get excited and overdo it and get a PN flare a day later.

    When i learned abotu TMS, i tried my best to not fear pain from rides, and i nearly tripled my miles. However, i still sometimes get awful flares, and i still cant ride more than once a week. If i try and do it, i get terrible flareups. Yesterday i was going thru a flare, and decided i was gonna ride anyway (because it's just TMS, and it's harmless, right?) well hours later, i was in agony because i rode while flaring. Today i'm still paying for it. Would TMS explain delayed pain? This is where my doubt still lies. Otherwise, i have all the clues it's TMS. Thank you Alan for taking the time.
  15. Fabi

    Fabi Well known member

    I had an insight sleeping or dreaming last night. I realized every time I had a pure physical issue I trusted my body. I know the body is a miracle when it comes to healing.
    But, but, and here comes the but.... when it comes to mind over body, my faith diminishes. I don´t have the same confidence. It´s a matter of confidence. Maybe I have experienced so many setbacks and relapses I am over sensitized. I don´t trust my mind. I don´t know very well how it works or what are its motivations. I wanted to share that.
    MicheleRenee likes this.
  16. Everly

    Everly Peer Supporter

    Yep, I agree with the comments here about being afraid of TMS itself. I am not afraid of damaging myself, I know its TMS, Im just afraid it wont go away... I know it will eventually, but I feel myself fearing the symptoms. I feel that it is the last step in recovering. Also just wanted to say I also have loads non-pain symptoms, so you guys are not alone, I have fibromyalgia pain, burning feet, but also dizziness, tinnitus, and skin reactions. And I have symptom imperative on a daily basis. Like if it hurts, then I am clearheaded. If Im dizzy, then nothing hurts. If Im painfree, Im fatigued. It is so clearly TMS, I could be a case study. I got TMS from worrying too much and now Im worried about TMS all the time. Really thankful for this program now, thank you Alan!
  17. Agnes

    Agnes New Member

  18. Agnes

    Agnes New Member

    Really good to read that a person doesn't have to be 100% sure she has TMS. I'm close to that, due to many evidences, but can't seem to make it to the full 100%. I will be reading every day's entries. Thank you so much Dr. Gordon.
  19. MicheleRenee

    MicheleRenee Peer Supporter

    yes hobestly when i thought this was all bladder inf. kidney inf. etc etc. i had more faith in the healing. i didnt care. i knew i would heal. looking back it was all tms but i thought it was physical. knowing its psychological and not knowing when the brain will give up its strategy scares me. knowing u really are the only one who can heal yourself adds a sense of pressure thats indescribable when you have severe potentially life long symptoms. i think we know its all fear. essentially this is an anxiety response of our nervous system. and then being told we cant use painkillers etc or we wont heal is also damaging. when youre in that much pain you want relief. but then youre worried if you take pain meds u will not heal. its all worry. worry on worry. and when you essentially need to calm yout system down to truly heal all of these dos and donts often dont help. at least for me.
    readytoheal and Fabi like this.
  20. Everly

    Everly Peer Supporter

    Ugh, yes. I feel the pressure, like "It's clearly TMS, I should be able to fix it" "Why is it taking so long, what am I doing wrong?'' There is a lot of pressure and no one to hold accountable other than me. I try to chill, I really do, but I can feel that in the back of my mind I am freaking out.
    harmony and caligirlgonegreen like this.

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