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Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Livvygurl, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. Livvygurl

    Livvygurl Well known member

    Hi Folks,

    I am doing pretty well. I am reading, journaling, visualizing and I know I need to be more patient about further healing strides. I want to increase my activity level but feel I need to let go of more of this extreme tightness, and slowly develop the confidence towards being more physical. I have hurt myself trying to go to fast. Also, sometimes life demands physical action, like opening really heavy doors!

    Over the years my back has clicked “in and out” at times because of very tight TMS muscles as well as triggers. When I feel it is “out” sometimes I can click it back in from rolling on the floor. This is a habit/ coping skill that I developed from dealing with pain for so long. Instead of trying to physically get relief from the discomfort should I practice doing this with my brain and commands. If so, this is a difficult transition to make. Is there anyone out there who has experience or advice concerning this issue?

    Livvy ~
  2. veronica73

    veronica73 Well known member

    I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about but I sometimes have clicking sounds too...I was told it's harmless and doesn't mean anything is out of alignment.
  3. Livvygurl

    Livvygurl Well known member


    Thanks for your reply! For me the clicking and sound is usually a reaction to a trigger from lifting something too heavy. Or, if I am on a crowded street and someone bumps into me, it makes me feel like I am out of alignment and then causes pain :confused:
  4. yb44

    yb44 Beloved Grand Eagle

    I know exactly what you mean. When I happen to bump into a piece of furniture I too feel I have been thrown out of alignment and experience a sharp, sudden pain. But the pain doesn't last for more than a second. I have observed that when I do this I tense up. I suspect it's the tensing up that causes the pain. I now make an effort to just relax for a few seconds and tell myself I am not hurt, damaged or broken.
    Livvygurl likes this.
  5. Livvygurl

    Livvygurl Well known member

    yb44, Yeah that sounds like what I go through. And the tensing does cause the pain like the learned behavior response thing.
    This is a good strategy that works for me sometimes, I will continue to work at it! o_O
  6. Lori

    Lori Well known member

    I do think that by using something physical the message to the brain is that something physical needs fixing rather than accepting it as TMS. Just because we feel pain in a spot does not mean we have actually done something to our body. Conditioning can cause us to think we have an injury or something is suddenly out of alignment, and keep our mind occupied that way. It takes time to undo this type of thinking.

    A few weeks ago my nephew unexpectedly jumped into me in a pool and I was jerked back a bit and immediately felt a twinge of pain--in the exact same spot I had tms pain years and years ago, and where I have had no pain for years since then. "Ow" I thought. But even though it hurt on and off for a few days, I realized he could not have harmed me and my back was fine. I have felt nothing in that spot since talking to myself in a loving way.

    The healing hinderance occurs when we think (or believe--even stronger than think) that an activity will cause an adverse effect. My brother used to say "if I move furniture around, my knee (where he had (possibly unnecessary) surgery in the 80s) will hurt." So last time he said this I said something like "well it most certainly will if that's what you believe. Moving furniture [or whatever he was doing] does not hurt your knee!" My family went through my being bedridden with TMS pain to back to life, so occasionally they listen to me.:)

    Please note that Dr. Sarno says it is anatomically impossible to "throw the back out" as it is the strongest set of bones in the body.

    Forest and Livvygurl like this.
  7. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I notice that if I hear a "click" in my left lower lumbar region when I put my pants on in the morning, I will have more pain down there throughout the rest of the day. Seems as though the click I hear functions as a psychological "trigger" for TMS pain. Sounds like a conditioned, programmed reaction to me. Luckily, as my muscles tighten up as my TMS subsides, the clicking seems to be going away. I also don't "notice" the clicking so much anymore. I must be forgetting the syndrome.
  8. Livvygurl

    Livvygurl Well known member

    Thank you for your responses! I have so much reading, reprogramming, and writing to do. I really appreciate your support and this Wiki is so packed with excellent information. I am set and there is no turning back, I have a one way ticket to healing my bodymind. Cheers to a new challenge and that I have the power to heal myself!!!
    Thank you + ♡.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  9. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    This reminded me of my atlas-occipital (AO) joint. For years the atlas would "go out" and stick off to the right side, where I could literally feel this huge painful knob, until my chiropractor would "put it back".

    In the fall of 2010, a year before I discovered Dr. Sarno and TMS, I started seeing an MD who did crani0-sacral work. I believe this is a form of mind-body work, although he did not impart any actual MBS knowledge to me. He did ask me to stop seeing the chiro, and when I told him about my AO always going out, his answer was "I don't think you need to worry about your AO". That's actually all he really said about it. It took a little while, but he was right - when it went out, I kind of visualized it going back in, and eventually it just stayed in. There is no physical manipulation in cranio-sacral work, so I can only attribute it to my belief in his belief.

    I have totally forgotten about this when listing my TMS successes because it had been gone for months before I discovered TMS, but of course it should be on the list. I was reminded of it reading this discussion, because unlike my neck pain, headaches, and dizziness, that knob was something that other people could actually feel.

    This is powerful stuff.
  10. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    I don't know why exactly it happens, but people try to find almost any reason to come up with a structural reason for their pain. I don't know much about clicking, but the idea of my back went out is most likely just TMS at play. As Lori said, the back is the strongest part of the body. The idea that lifting something or bumping into somebody can cause this severe chronic pain is kind of ridiculous, unless of course you understand what it is trying to do, i.e. distract us from our emotions. A lot of this is, as previously mentioned, conditioned responses. We all have these unique condionted responses.

    For me it was having pain when typing on a keyboard, and let me tell you, there is no logical reason why typing on a keyboard would cause the severe level of pain I expereinced. But that is how I rationalized it.

    The first step to breaing this conditioning is to simply educate yourself about TMS. That's why Sarno called knowledge the penicillin of TMS, because once we understand what our unconscious is doing, we can begin to recondition ourselves from having pain after certain activities.
    Livvygurl likes this.
  11. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Livvy, Steve O, pg 122! (I know you don't have the book yet). Says clicking is common to TMS.
    Livvygurl likes this.
  12. Livvygurl

    Livvygurl Well known member

    Thanks Jan, I just had a little conversation with SteveO on the Forum about clicking:


    I am working on harnessing my inner warrior to face the TMS challenge. I have opened some heavy doors today and I am making myself step off the curb instead of relying on the wheelchair ramp as I walk. I have some pain today but I am making an attempt to do some things that I am fearful of doing. Journaling is going well I am working on my lists of past and present experiences. Now I know why I was resistant to journal writing because there are some cans of worms to reckon with! The day after I journal I get a journaling hangover and feel kind of "Blah". It is a very emotional and draining experience to go over various aspects of my childhood and my feelings regarding those events. However, I continue to press on through this miserable and refreshing task. The end result will be wonderful. I love the idea of feeling really self-empowered from curing my own mindbody stuff :cool:
    JanAtheCPA and veronica73 like this.
  13. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    "Now I know why I was resistant to journal writing because there are some cans of worms to reckon with! The day after I journal I get a journaling hangover and feel kind of 'Blah'. It is a very emotional and draining experience to go over various aspects of my childhood and my feelings regarding those events. However, I continue to press on through this miserable and refreshing task."

    Livy: I wondered whether anyone else had that "Blah" hangover reaction after journaling? Those dialogues with my dead relatives in Howard Schubiner's Unlearn Your Pain workbook have been leaving me with a kind of emotional dullness the next day too. Thrashing things out with your dead relatives is just not a very fun thing to do in your spare time. But as you suggest, it does have long-term rewards because that seems to be a way of processing repressed emotions in your conscious mind. Luckily I only have a couple more of those dialogues to do in the Schubiner workbook. Good luck to you: Press on!
    JanAtheCPA and Livvygurl like this.
  14. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    My non-professional diagnosis is that because TMS cuts down on oxygen to the area where the clicking occurs, the supporting muscle tissue is not as strong as it should be. Therefore, the joints have a tendency to "click". I do notice that as my TMS subsides, so does the "clicking" in my left lower lumbar region, which suggests to me that my autonomic nervous system is beginning to send more oxygen to that area. With less clicking and probably better circulation, my left leg seems much stronger too. Of course, the "click" or "pop" must also have a psychological meaning too because it seems to confirm the structural diagnosis; therefore, it also has a symbolic importance for your psyche which is searching around desperately for confirmation of structural problems such as disk degeneration. This is odd too because X-rays of my lower spine show that it is rock solid! Some arthritis in the hips, but it doesn't hurt there!
    Livvygurl likes this.
  15. Lori

    Lori Well known member

    Livvy. Yes, we all have unpleasant memories to face and while that part does, well, suck, I know I want to be free of past emotional trash so ONWARD I go! :)

    RE: Journaling, I've learned that after you feel those feelings from the past memories, it is important to find one good statement to close the session. In another program I did it was called finding the earned reward after feeling the essential pain. I remember when I was processing that my kindergarten teacher yelled at me, and it was frightening. So I'm stuck in feeling the pain of this past event, and asking myself on earth could be something good to take from this awful experience. The teacher I was working with said to me "how about I am ready to heal this hurt!" and that was so perfect. It felt right. So when I have processed things and feel stuck and can't think of anything good, I am ready to heal this pain/hurt/event, etc. works great for me. I have found it best to end ALL journaling in a similar fashion. It can sometimes be tough!


  16. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is an amazing dialogue and packed full of good stuff in just one short page. I'm still only in Ch. 6 of the book so maybe what he said to you will come up in it later, but how generous of him to take the time to post such a comprehensive personal reply! It also confirms what I believe happened when I "learned" to keep my A-O in without any outside manipulation.

  17. Shanshu Vampyr

    Shanshu Vampyr Well known member

    Hi TMS friends,

    SOOOOOO glad I literally stumbled upon this thread (I was looking for Dr. P. Zafirides' post about how thoughts can control emotions, or whatnot). But one of my BIGGEST TMS hurdles is the clicking/snapping/popping I hear in many, many joints (almost 100% of the time painless, although some are slightly "uncomfortable") that has been BRAND NEW since TMS started. I'm talking I NEVER clicked or popped before.

    And I love MorComm's "technical" explanation for it. :)

    *Bear dancing happily*
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  18. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is the right approach to take. It sounds like you are setting goals for yourself and you have a plan on how to achieve them. Being active can really give us that needed confidence boost.

    I also love this idea of harnessing my inner warrior. There is a sort of stubborness that is needed to recover from TMS. Our body will try to create a whole bunch of symptoms to make us focus on our bodies. At times, we really need to ignore our symptoms, especially when we are trying to be active, and think psychological. I think we all have this little voice in our heads that tells us we can't do certain things. I had this voice that kept telling me I couldn't possibly type for more than a few minutes at a time. Harnessing our inner warrior (great phrase by the way:cool: ) will help us silence this inner voice and begin to see real progress.

    BTW - There is great thread about chiro in the thread Day 11 Totally Confused
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  19. Beach-Girl

    Beach-Girl Well known member

    Hi Livvy:

    Haven't had clicking in my back, but I like what others have said here. I know whatever signals my body is throwing at me right now are all TMS. So I'm reminding myself and moving on.

    Personally, at the moment, I have no time to journal. But I take many moments out of the day for little breaks. I breathe. I visually slow myself down and things get back to "normal". Maybe this is a tool you might consider. We don't always have the time to sit and journal or write. But we always can find a few moments in the day, to close our eyes and simply breathe. My therapist has practically begged me to do this over the years. But it;s only recently I've practiced and received the benefits from moments of peace. Even with mayhem around me.

    Hope this helps in a some way for you

    Livvygurl likes this.
  20. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    I wanted to bump this thread up to see what other's think of it.

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