Changing from a negative to a positive attitude

[Booble]

I did this healing program with David Hanscom last year on his app. He’s a healer in this sphere, and he totally says without forgiveness you will be stuck. He loves this book, called Forgive, for Good, by Fred Luskin. I read it. It’s really good and it looks at forgiveness as a process for your own mental health. He keeps religion or spirituality out of it. And even from that perspective, he puts forth some great points. I can only speak to forgiveness from a Christian perspective. And it’s definitely not a simple process. It involves inner change and humility and spiritual growth. But ultimately, it does bring healing (and does not imply you agree with what the person did, or that you should be a doormat into the future). I like how we are talking about this!

Just to reiterate, I'm a big proponent of forgiveness (and "I'm sorry"). I was suggesting that I think forgiveness can come too soon when going through the process of identifying the root cause anger and allowing yourself the anger. If we forgive too quickly during that process, we might not fulfill the experience of allowing the anger.

That's a big difference than thinking I meant not to forgive people or that forgiving people isn't helpful.

 

[Booble]

I believe that the brain, mind, body (which includes the nervous system) are all part of the equation. Not a problem, just need for balance.

A lot intertwined there for sure.

 

[Diana-M]

If we forgive too quickly during that process, we might not fulfill the experience of allowing the anger.

Yes!

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

Just to reiterate, I'm a big proponent of forgiveness (and "I'm sorry"). I was suggesting that I think forgiveness can come too soon when going through the process of identifying the root cause anger and allowing yourself the anger. If we forgive too quickly during that process, we might not fulfill the experience of allowing the anger.

Agree in that going too early with forgiveness for people pleasers isn't going to work (and will just be out of fear).

That's very deep from you @Diana-M (and of course you belong gosh) discussing how forgiveness has helped you. I think it needs to be noted that forgiveness is largely for oneself. It's like the analogy of holding a burning bush, you're only burning yourself, you're not hurting the other person. As such, forgiveness doesn't necessarily need to be a moral tick off of what the other person did (it was mentioned before about understanding and compassion for where the other person came from - that is golden if you can, but for some things I appreciate that might not be achievable - I'm lucky that my trauma was on the lower end so I was able to tap into this heavily). Once you have validated yourself sufficiently (and that child is heard as you said @Booble) forgiveness to me is the next step in self-compassion. It's self-compassionate to shed that and not carry around those poison feelings towards someone else (that aren't doing anything to them, only you in a negative way). Once the inner child is sufficiently soothed, heard and understood, from experience this forgiveness becomes a lot easier.

 

[Booble]

I hear a lot of people say something like this. What if instead of conceptualizing your nervous system as shot, damaged, etc, you say actually my nervous system is totally fine and functioning the way it should—it just wasn't able to cope with everything you've had to go through (and it has responded poorly to years of not allowing yourself the compassion and attention you deserve).



Wellll I think the forum is necessarily in a period of transition

Truth be told, I've been surprised that the comments I have made lately with standard TMS advice have been taken out of context and discounted without taking the time to read what I'm saying, just jumping quickly to oppose. Case in point-- a poster asked if after you surface rage is the next thing to do to forgive. I suggested that wasn't the time to forgive or the rage might get tucked down. I never said, nor would ever think, that people shouldn't forgive and I believe 100% in the power of forgiveness. But for whatever reason because I said that in the context of doing Sarno rage/anger work, suddenly it got jumped on.

There is a difference between sharing other tools/methodologies and actively opposing when a Sarno method is raised.

I recognize the need for pulling together various methodologies and I certainly have my own philosophy of TMS of which Sarno is one part. If anyone feels anger when Sarno methods and concepts are raised I think that's a problem.

 

[Booble]

Agree in that going too early with forgiveness for people pleasers isn't going to work (and will just be out of fear).

That's very deep from you @Diana-M (and of course you belong gosh) discussing how forgiveness has helped you. I think it needs to be noted that forgiveness is largely for oneself. It's like the analogy of holding a burning bush, you're only burning yourself, you're not hurting the other person. As such, forgiveness doesn't necessarily need to be a moral tick off of what the other person did (it was mentioned before about understanding and compassion for where the other person came from - that is golden if you can, but for some things I appreciate that might not be achievable - I'm lucky that my trauma was on the lower end so I was able to tap into this heavily). Once you have validated yourself sufficiently (and that child is heard as you said @Booble) forgiveness to me is the next step in self-compassion. It's self-compassionate to shed that and not carry around those poison feelings towards someone else (that aren't doing anything to them, only you in a negative way). Once the inner child is sufficiently soothed, heard and understood, from experience this forgiveness becomes a lot easier.

I agree completely with all of this. At first after learning about TMS I struggled with "What do I do after I have found and experienced this anger/rage (that I had no idea I had)?" I could turn it over in my mind and help my little insides understand it but then what? One day early on I found myself subconsciously doodling a picture of little me with a balloon on a string with the emotion word written in the balloon and the balloon being set free to fly away. That helped complete the circle for me from
calm questioning----> to anger and related emotions---> to understanding -----> and back to calm.
It always feels like a big load off.

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

Case in point-- a poster asked if after you surface rage is the next thing to do to forgive. I suggested that wasn't the time to forgive or the rage might get tucked down. I never said, nor would ever think, that people shouldn't forgive and I believe 100% in the power of forgiveness. But for whatever reason because I said that in the context of doing Sarno rage/anger work, suddenly it got jumped on.

I can't comment about other posts, but with this one you did say in fairness "I don't think forgiveness is helpful because" without qualification (I'm not offended by anything you say nor do I want to jump on what you say, I lean towards being a Sarno purist myself, but I was going to reply and add to that if others hadn't - you explained why you thought it wasn't helpful but you didn't qualify it - my interpretation might have been poor and that's on me, but just in response to your surprise at how it was interpreted, and I didn't interpret it in that way based on any negative feelings towards you, I don't have any). That invited responses and then you clarified your position after that by providing more detail and context (you added that you were only referring to a case where the person hasn't yet really accepted those feelings - it wasn't a statement about forgiveness overall) - makes sense and no harm no foul from my perspective (that's a very common and necessary process in discussions).

I'm not trying to invalidate your experience, and I'm risking putting you offside with this comment but I don't want you to be put off because I think you're a very valuable contributor. I genuinely don't think anyone was out to get you here, and it would be a shame if you thought so and that meant you engaged less. You have a lot to offer in the way of helping people here

 

[Booble]

I can't comment about other posts, but with this one you did say in fairness "I don't think forgiveness is helpful because" without qualification (I'm not offended by anything you say nor do I want to jump on what you say, I lean towards being a Sarno purist myself, but I was going to reply and add to that if others hadn't - you explained why you thought it wasn't helpful but you didn't qualify it - my interpretation might have been poor and that's on me, but just in response to your surprise at how it was interpreted, and I didn't interpret it in that way based on any negative feelings towards you, I don't have any). That invited responses and then you clarified your position after that by providing more detail and context (you added that you were only referring to a case where the person hasn't yet really accepted those feelings - it wasn't a statement about forgiveness overall) - makes sense and no harm no foul from my perspective (that's a very common and necessary process in discussions).

I'm not trying to invalidate your experience, and I'm risking putting you offside with this comment but I don't want you to be put off because I think you're a very valuable contributor. I genuinely don't think anyone was out to get you here, and it would be a shame if you thought so and that meant you engaged less. You have a lot to offer in the way of helping people here

I don't think forgiveness is helpful RIGHT THEN! LOL.
Ok, I hear you. Thanks. It's the context of the posts that precede it. We were having a discussion about pulling the anger and rage upward. Diana asked what then? Forgiveness? So I explained no not forgiveness.

Thanks, Adam. I appreciate you.

 

[Diana-M]

I’m the one who brought up forgiveness in response to something @Ellen said right before about healing from rage as “a cognitive process that leads to personal growth.” I was asking her basically what her experience with this is. I was curious because I know she has some Eastern philosophies and I wondered how I could apply/learn from them. I should have elaborated more. All I could think of was forgiveness, from my end, on the cognitive/personal growth. I wasn’t trying to start a controversy. <3 I appreciate everyone’s input!

 

[Booble]

I’m the one who brought up forgiveness in response to something @Ellen said right before about healing from rage as “a cognitive process that leads to personal growth.” I was asking her basically what her experience with this is. I was curious because I know she has some Eastern philosophies and I wondered how I could apply/learn from them. I should have elaborated more. All I could think of was forgiveness, from my end, on the cognitive/personal growth. I wasn’t trying to start a controversy. <3 I appreciate everyone’s input!

And I shouldn't have butted in on your conversation with Ellen!
We're good, Diana.

 

[Diana-M]

We're good, Diana

I appreciate all your thoughts.