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cause of muscle pain in TMS
- Thread starter dillon95
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- muscle muscle pain
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
That theory is kind of obsolete in the sense that it ultimately DOES NOT MATTER what causes your physical symptoms.
Look, @dillon95, you've been asking a lot of questions around this issue of tension, and you've received a lot of responses, most, if not all of which, are trying to steer you away from your obsession with this physical idea of tension, and trying to lead you to the emotional reasons why your brain is creating symptoms.
What you absolutely must learn and accept is that the brain is in charge of every single physiological sensation and process that takes place in our bodies. Thus, you must look to the brain for the reason it creates physical symptoms for no physiological reason.
Dr Sarno's very first example of a physical response to an emotional trigger is blushing. You cannot deny the fact that blushing is physical, because you can feel it and everyone can see it. However, there is no physiological purpose for blushing. It is 100% an emotional response, created by your brain to distract you from an emotion that your brain does not want you to look at too closely.
If you still don't understand this concept that our brains can create a physical sensation for no physiological reason, you need to look up the phenomenon of phantom limb pain. Phantom limb pain is absolute proof of this mechanism in action.
I will repeat: ultimately, the physical process involved DOES NOT MATTER, because the source is emotional.
Do yourself a favor and don't use the word "tension" again. And don't try to replace it with something else, because the only one being fooled is you. This is just your TMS brain trying to get you to focus on this in order to keep you stuck!
I know it's not going to be easy, because your TMS brain reeeally wants to be in control, but you will be better off if you refuse to describe your symptoms from now on. Simply say "my TMS symptoms". This is all you need to say, because we aren't going to respond to details, so there's no point in wasting the time, space, and energy of you or us describing them!
Look, @dillon95, you've been asking a lot of questions around this issue of tension, and you've received a lot of responses, most, if not all of which, are trying to steer you away from your obsession with this physical idea of tension, and trying to lead you to the emotional reasons why your brain is creating symptoms.
What you absolutely must learn and accept is that the brain is in charge of every single physiological sensation and process that takes place in our bodies. Thus, you must look to the brain for the reason it creates physical symptoms for no physiological reason.
Dr Sarno's very first example of a physical response to an emotional trigger is blushing. You cannot deny the fact that blushing is physical, because you can feel it and everyone can see it. However, there is no physiological purpose for blushing. It is 100% an emotional response, created by your brain to distract you from an emotion that your brain does not want you to look at too closely.
If you still don't understand this concept that our brains can create a physical sensation for no physiological reason, you need to look up the phenomenon of phantom limb pain. Phantom limb pain is absolute proof of this mechanism in action.
I will repeat: ultimately, the physical process involved DOES NOT MATTER, because the source is emotional.
Do yourself a favor and don't use the word "tension" again. And don't try to replace it with something else, because the only one being fooled is you. This is just your TMS brain trying to get you to focus on this in order to keep you stuck!
I know it's not going to be easy, because your TMS brain reeeally wants to be in control, but you will be better off if you refuse to describe your symptoms from now on. Simply say "my TMS symptoms". This is all you need to say, because we aren't going to respond to details, so there's no point in wasting the time, space, and energy of you or us describing them!
Hi @dillon95,
Back in 2018 when I first joined these forums, hearing about Dr Sarno's theory that muscle pain is caused by constriction of the blood vessels which results in lack of oxygen to the muscles (hypoxia) helped me believe that my symptoms were TMS as my most debilitating symptoms at that time were muscle pain, muscle spasms and muscle stiffness (the medical profession had put me on the scrap heap and diagnosed me as having so called 'fibromyalgia').
Later on though - what with my brain not wanting to give in to my will - I got other symptoms randomly popping up in my body that weren't so easily explained by the hypoxia theory. And then it wasn't until I read about complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS) patients being cured by TMS work (CRPS's cause is not clearly understood by the medical profession) that I believed that all of my random symptoms were almost certainly TMS, as with CRPS there can be symptoms of swelling and changes to the skin of temperature and texture.
How the brain causes these symptoms in the body, the precise mechanism(s), is irrelevant to your recovery from them and if you wait to understand the mechanism(s) before committing to doing TMS work you are likely to be waiting around a very long time for medical scientists to do research and work this all out.
The advice, therefore, really has to be to suspend any disbelief that you might have and do the TMS work. As you do so you will almost certainly see inconsistencies in the symptoms you are experiencing, e.g. in Alan Gordon's book 'The Way Out' he describes how severe his back pain was and that his personal breakthrough to understanding that the pain was caused by the brain/mind was realising that when he attended a match to watch his favourite team (baseball I think it was) he was able to sit for a couple of hours watching them with zero pain, whereas the rest of the time he'd been disabled by it.
My 'breakthrough' was when I was suffering breast pain and inflammation (mastitis) with swollen lymph glands for no apparent reason (I was post-menopausal and the local breast clinic checked me out, but had no idea why this was happening to me, nor how to treat it other than to give me course after course of antibiotics) and so I googled about my symptoms... I saw that a possible cause could be lymphoma and after reading about the symptoms of lymphoma, and reading that they can include nausea and feeling faint, I almost immediately felt both of those things! I was forced to crawl to and lay down on my bed and have an early night, and by the morning the nausea and feeling of faintness had gone and didn't return - why? - because I realised that it was my mind/brain had caused that reaction. It's like when some people go for a vaccination, see the needle and then promptly pass out.
As @JanAtheCPA says:
Back in 2018 when I first joined these forums, hearing about Dr Sarno's theory that muscle pain is caused by constriction of the blood vessels which results in lack of oxygen to the muscles (hypoxia) helped me believe that my symptoms were TMS as my most debilitating symptoms at that time were muscle pain, muscle spasms and muscle stiffness (the medical profession had put me on the scrap heap and diagnosed me as having so called 'fibromyalgia').
Later on though - what with my brain not wanting to give in to my will - I got other symptoms randomly popping up in my body that weren't so easily explained by the hypoxia theory. And then it wasn't until I read about complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS) patients being cured by TMS work (CRPS's cause is not clearly understood by the medical profession) that I believed that all of my random symptoms were almost certainly TMS, as with CRPS there can be symptoms of swelling and changes to the skin of temperature and texture.
How the brain causes these symptoms in the body, the precise mechanism(s), is irrelevant to your recovery from them and if you wait to understand the mechanism(s) before committing to doing TMS work you are likely to be waiting around a very long time for medical scientists to do research and work this all out.
The advice, therefore, really has to be to suspend any disbelief that you might have and do the TMS work. As you do so you will almost certainly see inconsistencies in the symptoms you are experiencing, e.g. in Alan Gordon's book 'The Way Out' he describes how severe his back pain was and that his personal breakthrough to understanding that the pain was caused by the brain/mind was realising that when he attended a match to watch his favourite team (baseball I think it was) he was able to sit for a couple of hours watching them with zero pain, whereas the rest of the time he'd been disabled by it.
My 'breakthrough' was when I was suffering breast pain and inflammation (mastitis) with swollen lymph glands for no apparent reason (I was post-menopausal and the local breast clinic checked me out, but had no idea why this was happening to me, nor how to treat it other than to give me course after course of antibiotics) and so I googled about my symptoms... I saw that a possible cause could be lymphoma and after reading about the symptoms of lymphoma, and reading that they can include nausea and feeling faint, I almost immediately felt both of those things! I was forced to crawl to and lay down on my bed and have an early night, and by the morning the nausea and feeling of faintness had gone and didn't return - why? - because I realised that it was my mind/brain had caused that reaction. It's like when some people go for a vaccination, see the needle and then promptly pass out.
As @JanAtheCPA says:
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dillon95
New Member
Thanks for the responses everyone. Just wanted to be clear, I'm absolutely aware that my physical symptoms are being caused by my emotional state. I've known this from the beginning. I do not think the contractions are being caused by a physical abnormality. I can tell very clearly the intensity of the symptoms are clearly controlled by my level of anxiety. I was just simply trying to understand the underlying mechanism behind the pain, but of course I know that my emotions are the reason for my symptoms (emotions,contractions,pain in that order).
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
It is my sincere belief that in order to recover, it's essential to understand that trying to understand the mechanism simply does not matter.
The bottom line mantra of this work is ALWAYS this: Stop thinking physically, and start thinking psychologically. If you read enough posts on this forum, you will see this repeated over and over by many different people who have recovered.
You are still stuck thinking physically.
For one thing, I can pretty much guarantee you that as soon as you believe you understand the physiological mechanics of this symptom, and as soon as you use that as some kind of placebo to effectively mitigate your current symptom, your TMS brain will come up with a completely different symptom that has a completely different physiological process behind it that you will then feel compelled to investigate. This will never end as long as your TMS brain is successful at distracting you.
FAR more important than Sarno's tension theory is his DISTRACTION theory.
Another way to look at this is that your obession with "understanding the mechanism" is a classic Sarno-type distraction. It's a very effective way for your TMS brain to fool you into thinking that you are accomplishing something constructive towards actual recovery.
You are not.
You ARE accomplishing exactly what your fearful TMS brain wants, which is to avoid doing the emotional work that's clearly laid out in the program, because it's too scary to face head on. You are stuck in a cycle of intellectualization, which is exactly where your TMS brain wants you to remain!
THIS is the most important concept to understand and accept, but it's the hardest one to explain. People tend to either get it or they resist it.
Here's the bottom line: as long as you are resistant to taking any kind of emotional risk, as long as you avoid any kind of emotional vulnerability, and as long as you keep intellectualizing the work by saying "Yes, but... I just need to understand the mechanism" you will live with symptoms of one kind or another.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
If you're willing to spend thirty seconds on a brand-new post from someone who is doing the work and who clearly GETS IT, read this, from @ellaclaire33:
Day 18 - Sarno was right… | TMS Forum (The Mindbody Syndrome) (tmswiki.org) (and her previous posts are also excellent as she finds her way through the program).
If you're willing to spend a little more time with someone else who also GETS IT, and who I think is a real blood-and-guts TMS warrior, start with the profile story of @Diana-M, and then any of the threads that she created (you can find original threads by going to any member's profile, click on the Postings tab, then go to the bottom of the page and click on "find all threads by..."
If you don't feel like you can relate to TMS successes from our recent crop of female warriors, you could try this profile/success story by member @Michael Coutts. Who also GETS IT - from a very different viewpoint. You can tell me what you think.
Day 18 - Sarno was right… | TMS Forum (The Mindbody Syndrome) (tmswiki.org) (and her previous posts are also excellent as she finds her way through the program).
If you're willing to spend a little more time with someone else who also GETS IT, and who I think is a real blood-and-guts TMS warrior, start with the profile story of @Diana-M, and then any of the threads that she created (you can find original threads by going to any member's profile, click on the Postings tab, then go to the bottom of the page and click on "find all threads by..."
If you don't feel like you can relate to TMS successes from our recent crop of female warriors, you could try this profile/success story by member @Michael Coutts. Who also GETS IT - from a very different viewpoint. You can tell me what you think.
Baseball65
Beloved Grand Eagle
I still believe he was right about that. Mostly because every time I have had a relapse, doing things that stimulate oxygen /blood flow make the symptoms subside...and conversely, I tend to get them when I am sitting still. I had a Gnarly neck spasm thing a few months ago, but Knew it was TMS so I went and worked my ass off while trying to think about why I needed a symptom. if I just laid around it would have prolly been a lot worse. Went away fast...days...and the worst part was over in 48 hours
Now, when I need a good distraction and my 'belief' is secure, my body might use other systems, but Sarno poisoned his own well by saying in the next chapter that focusing on the mechanics of TMS is what creates symptoms. I don't think he was being clever, just sharing his own observations. The one thing I liked about HIM that was different was his lack of believing that systematically trained Mds understand whats going on any better than a lay person.... No one knows you better than you , so use your own experience and judgement.
dillon95
New Member
Thank you for all the info and resources. As I'm reading through chapter 3 of Sarno's book, he's saying exactly what you're saying to not focus on physical symptoms and focus on the emotional part of it. Hopefully I can get to this point, but I think because my pain started while I was weightlifting and would get a tense neck afterwards, my brain has associated tension with pain and damage and the association is extremely strong so it will be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life to break this chain.
dillon95
New Member
Yeah I think he's right too cause I've noticed when I use the heat pad it relieves my pain and heat works by opening up the blood vessels so it makes sense. Also agree that a lot of doctors aren't that bright when it comes to chronic pain. I've seen it first hand myself many times. They tend to ignore what you're saying and have their own agenda.
Baseball65
Beloved Grand Eagle
Don't worry about that yet. Just keep reading and identifying stuff in the book with your own experience. You'll be surprised.Your brain does work while you are asleep and things that might seem scary now will not seem so in a few days/weeks. For me the scariest thing was letting go of my backbrace thing-a-ma-bob. I had been wearing it for years and it felt like mommy's warm embrace.
After each scary thing, the next one didn't seem so gnarly and confidence is also contagious...but reading and reprogramming your thoughts is far and away the most important thing...You'll probably laugh when you see how easy stuff is down the road. I'd bet money on it.
dillon95
New Member
I hope so. As I read through this book I'm definitely gaining more valuable knowledge and the more I know, the better off I'll be hopefully.
Diana-M
Beloved Grand Eagle
Hi, @dillon95,
I have had quite a few symptoms over the past 30 years. Some went away even before I heard of Sarno. Some returned. I think I have about 12 symptoms right now.
When I came to the wiki 2 months ago, I was obsessed with finding other people with the EXACT symptoms I have, just so I could absolutely prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that all of my symptoms
are TMS. I would search the wiki and search again, for others like me. I have some weird symptoms that don’t involve pain, just scariness. Like my left leg doesn’t move the way it used to. It’s numb and weak.
What I’ve learned is that instead of sharing physical war stories, we should all be sharing emotional war stories. That’s the mystery we need to solve. How do you find your childhood issues, personality traits and current stressors that are at the root of your TMS? Some of us have bigger closets to clean than others!
I wish you luck on your journey. I am thoroughly convinced that anyone who truly does the work, for as long as it takes for Them, will heal. There’s no time limit on that. My current symptoms have lasted 3 years and I’m still working at it. I believe this wiki and the people on it are a gold mine. So you’re in the right place!
I have had quite a few symptoms over the past 30 years. Some went away even before I heard of Sarno. Some returned. I think I have about 12 symptoms right now.
When I came to the wiki 2 months ago, I was obsessed with finding other people with the EXACT symptoms I have, just so I could absolutely prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that all of my symptoms
are TMS. I would search the wiki and search again, for others like me. I have some weird symptoms that don’t involve pain, just scariness. Like my left leg doesn’t move the way it used to. It’s numb and weak.
What I’ve learned is that instead of sharing physical war stories, we should all be sharing emotional war stories. That’s the mystery we need to solve. How do you find your childhood issues, personality traits and current stressors that are at the root of your TMS? Some of us have bigger closets to clean than others!
I wish you luck on your journey. I am thoroughly convinced that anyone who truly does the work, for as long as it takes for Them, will heal. There’s no time limit on that. My current symptoms have lasted 3 years and I’m still working at it. I believe this wiki and the people on it are a gold mine. So you’re in the right place!
dillon95
New Member
I agree I think the emotions are ultimately what’s causing the physical pain and tension so you need to calm the emotions down to ease the physical stuff.
