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At an impasse

J

Jimmy Todd

Peer Supporter
I haven't posted on here in a while because there is a part of me that says since I don't have anything to offer, such as responding to other threads with good advice I shouldn't be taking up time whining about my problems. No one has made me feel that way. All those who have responded to me have been so kind and supportive.

I'm starting SEP over to try and really dig into the program because I believe it, but still have doubts. One of the things that holds me back from full faith is that I keep getting new pains that arise, and the program says to rule out structural causes. So I went back to my pain management dr whom I saw in December before I discovered the TMS program. He told me to go to a rheumatologist to rule out RA and Lyme disease. I don't have any of the symptoms of those except for multiple pains. When I first saw him he said the cause seemed ot be inflammation from my gut.

Interestingly, this time he suggested I read John Sarno's first book because I had raised the issue of stress management. He recommended the first one because Dr. Sarno suggests exercise and yoga. He said not to read the others(I already have)because according to him, "the mind doesn't cause pain." That statement makes no sense because stress causes physical reactions such as pain and stress comes from the mind.

I don't expect many doctors to agree with Dr. Sarno, but making sure there's no structural causes still haunts me. I'm starting SEP over because I think I need to be more consistent in my thinking. I have reduced my caffeine quite a bit because I'm working on my sleep quality, and I do use the meditations on Dr. Schubiner's website. So, while I feel I'm at an impasse I haven't given up.
 
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Hey Jimmy. I get it. This is something I’ve struggled with as well. And I hope other more experienced people will chime in. Obviously for life threatening things see a doctor, obvious infections, growths, absolutely debilitating acute pain. But a part of this journey is starting to trust your body more and begin to attune with what is and isn’t TMS pain. So I think it’s fine to see drs if you really need that support/closure. But if you know you’re a typical tmser, you have enough belief, you need to be cognizant of the medical merry go round and be aware that you go to a Dr and they don’t find anything in first line tests (lab works, imaging) then you can easily spend a lifetime searching for something that isn’t there. Or worse find something that isn’t the issue but you are convinced it is. What the saying about looking for trouble? But in this case the trouble is often the fear and stress.

2 months ago dealing with bilateral jaw and elbow and knee pain I’m convincing myself I need to get tested for Lyme but I also sat down with myself and recognized I recently recovered from scrotal pain and recovered from ibs via mind body approach. What’s more likely, I healed some aspects while simultaneously having Lyme causing other symptoms, or that they’re all caused by the same thing, my out of wack nervous system?

I think this is why evidence logs are so so important. Something tangible to look back on. Because us tmsers are prone to panic, and relying just on memory is dangerous business, because the fear can make us forget obvious signs that this is all TMS.

This is all a part of the game and falls under the umbrella of the fear loop that we have to conquer.
 
Hi Jimmy! I wondered where you went?! Have you tried this TMS self assess by Dan Buglio? https://www.painfreeyou.com/

It’s just a quick online test to help you see if you have TMS. It might help bring you some conviction. I agree with @Rabscuttle —look at your history. It should speak for itself.

The reason you’re at an impasse is you still have more work to do. Don’t quit til you win.

Great idea to do the SEP again. Or try one of the many other great avenues. Reread a Sarno book. Listen to Nicole Sachs podcasts. See what else speaks to you.
 
Thank you @Diana-M and @Rabscuttle ! I so appreciate your responses. They help me incredibly:)

I have taken Dan Buglio's test and scored an almost "perfect" score, so I fit the TMS mindset very well. I have his book and have listened to his podcasts, which are encouraging. His book does have an introduction which emphasizes we get checked by a doctor for structural issues and how are health is "your own responsibility,' which of course, it is, but the words to me come off as a warning. This gets that part of my brain that needs to have everything checked and evaluated going into overdrive. So when a new pain arises, I think, "Is this the one time it's not TMS?" or "If I don't have this checked out will I be doing more damage to my body that I will regret?"

I did check over my history as you both suggested and this started with severe back pain that I don't have anymore except for a twinge now and then. There others that have come and gone, some that are still hanging on but bounce all over the body, so the history is a good indicator of TMS.

Thanks again:)
 
Morning all.....
Jimmy Todd said:
He said not to read the others(I already have)because according to him, "the mind doesn't cause pain."
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Of course. Because then it is out of the realm of his experience. He is also DEAD wrong and full of shit. In fact, Sarno wrote the rest of his books and changed his point of view the longer he studied the problem.. He GOT rid of physical therapy, because he said attributing the cure to ANYTHING physical was a placebo of sorts.
You go to a Dr. ONCE to rule out Cancer or Tumors. Period. Sarno said that...multiple times. Unless you have unlimited funds and time (and a strong dose of OCD) Drs will ALWAYS keep adding one more obscure diagnosis you might have....they are like OCD incarnate.

Structural anomalies don't cause pain. I am walking around with a handful of them. I had them before I had symptoms and they still are around. i pay them no mind. If you want to rule out every single one, that is just the part of your mind that is resistant to the diagnosis.

and that doctor is an idiot, but most are. Sarno explained why in Healing Back Pain.

The only book of his I have NEVER read is that one (Mind over back pain)....."Healing Back Pain", and "Mindbody prescription" are the two best because they have clear instructions. Just like Christianity changed by a couple generations after Jesus' death, The TMS world is getting flooded by people selling their Unique experience with Sarno's work AS Sarno's work....you go to the original source and have your own experience !!! and the you will be well....and it is a fight, it is sometimes lonely and scary, but there are different layers of truth each one of us needs to fight through alone....the prize is being fully active and forgetting you ever had an issue.
 
Baseball65 said:
there are different layers of truth each one of us needs to fight through alone.
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I recently had a big breakthrough when I remembered a hard thing that I never acknowledged back when my current symptoms started. I think it had a lot to do with where I am today, and yet I forgot it happened. I think this would resoundingly fall into Sarno territory. But it didn’t come out right away. Who knows what else is still hiding. The longer you keep at this —for those of us who don’t get better fast—there’s still a chance you might bust through using the original source (Sarno). But sometimes other people’s personal paths (Sarno derivatives) help keep you from giving up!
 
Jimmy Todd said:
according to him, "the mind doesn't cause pain.
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This is not even neuroscientifically correct! Everyone by now should know that ALL physical sensations are generated by brain functions just like all physiological processes are directed by brain functions. Doctors are supposed to take continuing education credits, and it would certainly be nice if they paid attention and signed up to learn something new. (As someone who was required to take 40 hours of continuing education every year to maintain my professional license I know what I'm talking about.)

Look up Phantom Limb Pain for an explanation of how real pain can exist where there is physically no body part. It's all from the brain.
 
Thank you all for your responses:)
That was a good reminder, @Baseball65 regarding the Sarno books and the limits to how many times one can go to a doctor until it becomes in itself a manifestation of TMS, even if I'm trying to make sure there is nothing structural.
The first day in SEP it asks what would life be like without TMS. One thing I thought about was getting back the time I have spent on researching, going to doctors, PT, the chiropractor, acupuncture, professional stretchers, plus all the extra time I have been putting gym doing extra warm ups and mobility moves to protect my knees, hips, back, neck, etc.
Another thing is getting back to some High Intensity Interval Training, which I used to do regularly and made me feel like a million bucks. When the TMS started I pulled back on those because so many moves I thought would injure or aggravate my back and neck issues. I am inching back into them, though. They have classes at my gym I used to do regularly and my goal is to get back into them by the end of the summer. I also loved running to music, but my TMS had me obsessing about everything including my knees. My chiropractor told me after certain age to not run because it will ruin my knee joints, so I focus on the bicycle and rower. I do miss the running, but age is something I'm still not sure how it factors into TMS.
 
Jimmy Todd said:
My chiropractor told me after certain age to not run because it will ruin my knee joints, so I focus on the bicycle and rower.
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That is also BS. I was told if I ever even Jogged again, I risked paralysis...that was 25+ hard labor years, baseball seasons and 10000 sprints ago.

This forum has devolved a lot with all of the .02 cents from these other TMS for-money practitioners (which no one needs) and that whole 'take it easy/go slowly approach is exactly' what John Sarno spoke against!
He coined a term..... "Physicophobia" and as Sarno said in HBP it is as effective as pain at keeping your mind strongly focused on the body. If there is ANYTHING you are afraid to do, you aren't exorcised of the 'Medieval Medical Model' that Sarno railed against

That 'graded exposure' crap that you might find around here? Sarno would have been aghast....that is FOCUSING on how you FEEL! You might as well go and watch your aging parents for a week...it'll cause less problems than 'graded exposure'

You need to start running again...hard.... and plan on working out intensely . If you need something to focus on, focus on all of the BS that people have told you...you ought to be angry about it , cause it's all lies. Even nice chiropractors who are well meaning and 'accept' SOME of the psychological reasons, are still keeping you focused on your body, so the TMS is winning. I had one...and I was bummed, but I follow directions well, and I understood the Placebo effect and why I felt better after seeing him. He was a really nice guy. Just didn't cure me.

I turn 60 next month and I can still hump bags of concrete and dig holes all day. I am only limited by my personal attention span and abilities, but not by any physical thing. When I want to run, I do....I had to sprint a quarter mile the other day to catch a puppy who was running off the leash; except for huffing and puffing, I didn't once think there was any reason I shouldn't. And for a 60 year old, I was faster than I thought I'd be.

In fact, the only time I think about this stuff is chatting on this forum.

As Sarno said to the question "How will I know what is too much too lift?"....when You can't lift it. Period.
Now y'all need to read that book and get back to High intensity workouts as soon as you can.
 
Jimmy Todd said:
.... One of the things that holds me back from full faith is that I keep getting new pains that arise, and the program says to rule out structural causes. ...
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For me, this is almost always the culprit that keeps me in pain. And that is, I haven't fully accepted the mind-body diagnosis.

I wish there was magic button that turned that acceptance on. It's always been a cumulative process that came after dedicating myself to multiple aspects of recovery.

It's great that you're doing SEP and reading different TMS books! I did have a breakthrough with VERY stubborn chronic fatigue by doing Nichole Sachs' JournalSpeak. You can do it for free. There's a couple of websites that explain it well.
 
Diana-M said:
Cap’n,
I’ve noticed the same thing; that very stubborn symptoms (like mine are) need lots of journaling—lots and lots of exploration. And when you think you’ve done enough, do it some more! lol So I’m glad you validated that!
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Yes, @Diana-M .... beerbuds It was really a catalyst for change when I was stuck.
 
Baseball65 said:
That is also BS. I was told if I ever even Jogged again, I risked paralysis...that was 25+ hard labor years, baseball seasons and 10000 sprints ago...
Click to expand...

Challenging fear-based beliefs is one of the most simple yet complicated things we can do. Yes, in HBP, Sarno is adamant that fear of movement reinforces the pain cycle and rejects the idea that our bodies are fragile. I'm a work-in-progress, but in Sarno I trust.
 
" I was told if I ever even Jogged again, I risked paralysis...that was 25+ hard labor years, baseball seasons and 10000 sprints ago."

"I turn 60 next month and I can still hump bags of concrete and dig holes all day."

This is very impressive and inspiring, @Baseball65 ! So you just did it without inching your way little by little?

An interesting thing happened. Last Friday and Sunday I got some things off my chest with two different people. On Friday, I came out to a friend and colleague, which for me is very hard even if I'm relatively sure of a positive outcome, which it was. My experiences growing up left me rarely feeling safe. After that and the next day, I noticed I was in a really good mood and felt different.
On Sunday I was very hurt by something my partner said. Usually I would suppress my feelings because I never have felt safe exposing myself in that way. Growing up I was usually mocked in some way for having "hurt feelings." I took my a while but I spoke to him bluntly and said, "I was really hurt by what you said." My usual reaction would be to hold it in or to downplay. I didn't back down either and say something such as, "But don't worry about. I'm sure you didn't mean it."

This week my pains have noticeably diminished. I've done things that usually have brought on pain in some area of my body without that happening. I was also starting to feel good about life again. For so long I was not getting any enjoyment out of the things I used to enjoy. I've even had doctors who would tell me to make sure I'm having fun, and I'd think, "I don't know how to have fun anymore." There was a big change in that this week.

This give me more evidence of Sarno's theories and how repressed feelings do affect the body.

I say this all the time, but thank you to everyone who has responded. This forum really is a place of hope for me because of you:)
 
@Jimmy Todd

I actually cried and I smiled reading this post! ❤️ FANTASTIC! On so many levels. I hope you can see how MUCH progress you’ve made. And you’ve proven to yourself —and all of us—how the emotional issues—are what causes all this pain in our bodies.

You have started telling your feelings. Telling people who you really are. Standing up for yourself. Not downplaying or retracting your feelings. Being vulnerable. Being brave. And your reward: feeling better! Feeling good about life again. :)

Congrats to you on doing it! You’re on your way! Keep going! beerbuds
 
Jimmy Todd said:
So you just did it without inching your way little by little?
Click to expand...
Yes. I read the book on a Monday after a dramatic emergency room visit on Sunday.
I finished it and began re-reading it on Tuesday... I also began doing all of the exercises I had been taught during my Journey in the Pain world.
I wasn't getting better. I wasn't worse, but it still hurt in the same way, pattern...
I kept reading. By about Friday I realized, I had only learned that lame workout from the pain industry.
I had been warned never to run.....so I sprinted as hard as I could about 150 yards or so across the field I was walking around. I collapsed at the end and laughed...I was still in Pain, but I was NOT paralyzed or worse. I went home and threw away all of my painkillers, the meds they had me on and began working out the way I used to when I was doing it for enjoyment...Got on my bike again...even had an accident...no problems......Went to the batting cages and swung at 80mph fastballs. no problem.

I did everything Sarno said to do and was effectively pain free in 3 weeks and back at work in 5. Heavy Labor job. Sarno never says to take it easy or "inch along, make small gains"..it is about returning to activity including the most strenuous and winning the battle. The more you put your own feet to the fire , the faster you recover

I also make Long lists of everything that pissed me off...any time I wasn't reading and taking notes on Healing back Pain, I was making lists or doing fun activities.
I went shooting a bunch of times and blew shit up with a Rifle and shotguns...it was very therapeutic.

It is a program of action and challenging all of your beliefs up to that moment
 
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