any cured from bulging/herniated lower back discs?

[delshein86]

Hi,
Ever since I got the diagnosis when I was 18 (34 years old now), I have lived through my pain.
There are good days and bad.
Mostly, my day goes pain free, but that's only because of my fear of resuming the physical activities I really want to do : Basketball , lifting weights, running...
About lifting weights - I do, but I avoid doing the exercises that are considered very "bad" for the low back, mainly the "squat" and the "dead lift".
Then there are the every day stuff, for instance driving too long makes my right leg painful.

I just started discovering this whole new world of TMS.
I read Sarno's book, I am reading the 12 affirmations daily for a week now, and the pain doesn't seem to go away.
I could really use some encouragement to proceed.
Is there any one here who was able to cure his low back (+leg) pain from herniated discs and resume physical activities?

 

[Baseball65]

Is there any one here who was able to cure his low back (+leg) pain from herniated discs and resume physical activities?

Yes... a LOT of us. Most of us.

I avoid doing the exercises that are considered very "bad" for the low back, mainly the "squat" and the "dead lift".

That fear will go away and the fear is intricately tied in with your symptoms. A vicious cycle if ever there was one.

I read Sarno's book, I am reading the 12 affirmations daily for a week now, and the pain doesn't seem to go away.

LOL... You've been conditioned for 16 years and it hasn't gone away in a week? Sorry bro.. not laughing at you, laughing at myself because we all went through that part where we intellectually agreed with the info but were still in pain.... If you read 'Healing Back Pain' and do everything it recommends, the pain usually takes 2-4 weeks to go away... the unconscious lags behind the conscious mind and it takes that long for the info to sink in there. You are doing the right things.

remember Sarno's quote "Pity the heart, so slow to learn , what the swift mind beholds at every turn"

https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/My_Victory_Over_Pain,_by_Baseball65 (My Victory Over Pain, by Baseball65)

There's my story. I was around your age when I got better, and I still am and I am 54. Since then I have broken a vertebrae in my spine, fell off buildings and into pools skateboarding and have been drilled in the back by too many pitches to count...all pain free (Minus the Bruises and normal meat-swell of getting hit)

Just hang in there, keep doing the daily reminders and read a little every day. As your confidence grows you will go back to all of that stuff and actually be more confident than ever, because you won't believe all of those old wives tales anymore.

 

[Sammie]

Baseball you keep telling people if they read... or do something else “right” it will take 2or4 weeks to heal! What about people who have been in pain for years with zero healing??? What gives??? Very confusing advice! I was diagnosed with MBS by Howard Schubiner three years ago and still suffer daily with no let-up! Sorry to sound a little upset, but confused by the advice!

 

[delshein86]

Thanks for the response Baseball, Do you recommend performing the physical activities through the pain, or wait a few weeks?
Also , would love for other people to share their experience.
Sammie, can you share your story?

 

[Dave81]

Hi delshein86,

Sorry for the long post!

I am not healed, but I believe I am TMS sufferer, funny I am saying it and in the back of my head there is something asking “Are you?.”

As everyone here I will start with the general “This is not a medical advice as I am not a doctor or a medical person”, I am simply posting with the hope that this will help you in some way.

I started a post here about my problem. Frankly I have couple of bulges (bulges, according to the latest MRI) on levels L4/L5 & L5/S1 and a complete foot drop, if you are wondering what a foot drop is I cannot dorsiflex my foot or toes, I cannot stand on my heel, it’s a partial paralysis of the foot due to the bulging disk I was told, from what I have found on the net it’s due to level L4/5.

I was diagnosed with herniated disc back in 2005 level S1/L5, I have recently read the report of previous MRI from 2011 it mentions the L4/L5 level there, I was not aware about it until last year (2019). Dduring these years (14/15 years) I have had 5 major bouts and probably 1 or 2 small ones, by major I mean I cannot get out of bed or stand for longer than 5 minutes. The last one started in November and it’s the worst!

I am not cured, but I think I am getting better! I have no pain currently, only the foot drop remains, as a matter of fact I haven’t had pain since before Christmas last year (2019), so probably I am one of the lucky ones!

I want to mention that I have discovered Dr. John Sarno end of March this year, so I am very new to the whole TMS thing.

I want to share with you what is helping me:
1. When this bout started and then 4 days later the foot drop happened, I refused to believe that I am that broken, that my back is that broken. I rarely go to the doctors.

2. Like yourself I was told not to bend or I read that somewhere and then imposed it to myself and this was one of my biggest fears to the point that this time I have started telling my 7 years old to start squatting when picking things of the ground! Obviously Dr. Sarno said resume all physical activity, so bending was one of the things I need to start doing, I said to myself I will see what other people do! Starting from home my partner bends, my little one bends, as a matter of fact so far I saw only one lady in the park to do a “golfer’s pick up” in the park. EVERYBODY BENDs! I have started doing it and have been doing it for the past 2-3 weeks, still fine.

3. Not doing dead lifting or squat. I personally do not do any weights yet, have couple of dumbbells that are gathering dust, I will get there.
The below might help you:
Prof. Peter O'sulivan
Dr. Andrew Lock - he’ got nothing to do with TMS, but he is all about heavy lifting
Prof. Lorimer Moseley – “Motion is the lotion”
Blaine Sumner
Derek Poundstone
https://www.realsproject.org/athletes-who-didnt-let-a-herniated-disc-kill-their-careers/
I personally remember watching on TV in my home country about a couch training retired men (60-70 years old) suffering from what we call discopathia (general name for any back problems).
Watch this. - he is not even doing it right!

4. I was told do not seat for long periods of time, actually every 30 minutes get up and stretch!
I can tell you that my bottom started hurting not long after that and I have never had problems seating for hours before that! I have asked myself what about any drivers train, truck/lorry, bus, etc. Do they stretch every 30 minutes? Factory workers, in 50s-60s telephone exchange workers, etc? Just think about it! I personally have colleagues that do not get up more then 2-3 time in a 8 hours shift, no problems with their backs.

5. Medical research:
Magnetic Resonance Imaging of the Lumbar Spine in People without Back Pain
Systematic Literature Review of Imaging Features of Spinal Degeneration in Asymptomatic Populations

6. I made a list trying to remember what was happening during my life every time I had a bout. I am pretty sure that there was a major stressful event before every major bout.

My opinion take it at your own pace, do not rush! The problem with TMS is that it takes time and it’s nothing like popping pills.
Look for signs ( lack of a better word), like my example with bending.

Hope this helps,
Dave

 

[Baseball65]

Do you recommend performing the physical activities through the pain, or wait a few weeks?

I can't guess where you are physically so it's hard to say... Sarno says to start activity back as soon as you have had some amelioration (lessening) of the pain. I did NOT really follow that. I figured "If there is nothing wrong with me, F it, I am going" and literally bashed through it... I believe I mentioned my big breakthrough with the pain came when I was NOT any worse for the wear after sprinting, though I was told I "risked paralysis"

I had enough faith that this guy (Sarno) knew what he was talking about, because he was spot on on so many observations I had come to by myself (like the eclecticism of the whole pain treatment world). I was where you were at when I came to my F it moment, and I believe from that day forward I started challenging every single thing I had ever been told. The Hardest thing for me was ditching the belt thing about two weeks in... that was like a loving caress from Mommy and I was so hooked on it. But I tossed ...and I have been fine for 21 years.

The F-it attitude probably expedited my recovery. Not everyone is like me.

 

[Baseball65]

I was diagnosed with MBS by Howard Schubiner three years ago and still suffer daily with no let-up! Sorry to sound a little upset, but confused by the advice!

The advice wasn't to you.

This is a program of agency and accountability and who , what ,where you've been has zero bearing on the outcome. The man whose string we are hijacking clearly shows an understanding of the underlying principles. He also asked for help. I can assume since he read the same text as I did, is mentally where I was at about a week into it, he has a similar understanding. Intellectual agreement will not suffice. Action is required, Self inspection is required. Deleting all your 'knowledge' of the pain world like the guy a few posts up, is also the required. This is an inside job. You v. You. Me v. Me. Racking up knowledge and credits counts for nothing unless it's a deeper understanding of yourself....and DELETING what I think I know, over and over again

I have met a few people who this doesn't work for... they want to talk about their symptoms because their identity is vastly tied up in being a sufferer of this or that... There is usually a huge wart on their Nose they cannot see... a Job they loathe, a marriage that is hellish but they haven't the courage to leave, a life they are living that was someone else's plan, or they were completely rootless and cast out into the world without an anchor.

I am a victim blamer. I don't think there is such a thing as a victim, so when I meet one, I assume they are complicit. I was. I used to think I was a victim of lots of stuff... and I wasn't. God is sitting there waiting to help any of us as soon as we are willing to let go of our own idea's about how stuff is supposed to be.

 

[delshein86]

I don't know..
when you read the book it all sounds too good to be true to be honest,
I guess 16 years of pain and fear does that.

 

[delshein86]

https://www.realsproject.org/athletes-who-didnt-let-a-herniated-disc-kill-their-careers/ (Here Are Some Athletes Who Suffered Back Problems and Survived | Reals Project)

by the way, this actually is not reassuring , because all three athletes got better after surgery ..

 

[Dave81]

They got surgery

by the way, this actually is not reassuring , because all three athletes got better after surgery ..

Why, in my opinion this is even worse and they recovered and returned to the sport.? The disc is cut, weakened even more and they managed to recover, don't you see it that way?

 

[Dave81]

One more thing if stress, anger or bad emotions can cause you headache, heart attack, raise your blood pressure, stomach problems like diarrhoea etc., worsen a sickness, I am sure there are other problems caused or affected by mental state that are accepted by general medicine or common knowledge, just can't think of any at the moment.
Are you agreeing on the above?
Answer this why can't be back pain one of them? Just because no one in the medical world accepts it, doesn't mean it is not true.

 

[delshein86]

One more thing if stress, anger or bad emotions can cause you headache, heart attack, raise your blood pressure, stomach problems like diarrhoea etc., worsen a sickness, I am sure there are other problems caused or affected by mental state that are accepted by general medicine or common knowledge, just can't think of any at the moment.
Are you agreeing on the above?
Answer this why can't be back pain one of them? Just because no one in the medical world accepts it, doesn't mean it is not true.

I am not saying this isn't true, but all this is pretty new to me, as only recently I read Srano's book.
So all I wanted , before I "jump to the pool" and start lifting weights and play basketball again, is to hear a success story from someone with similar medical history as my own.

No offense but all I heard until now is @Baseball65 's story which is great. But, for all I know he is an avid ambassador of this new "cult" which I am currently too nervous about joining. (I am exaggerating of course just to make a point, @Baseball65 - no offense yes? ).

I just wanted some regular folk's story to be a little more reassured ..

 

[Baseball65]

when you read the book it all sounds too good to be true to be honest,
I guess 16 years of pain and fear does that.

It has been 'to good to be true'. I had exhausted attempts to get better in the conventional medical system,and lived in fear and pain.

Doubt, fear and discouragement are how TMS works. Belief, chutzpah and action are how it is discarded. I have seen people get better who have been in pain for many years... You are definitely fighting more conditioning than I had to go through and I take my Hat off to you, But I have seen a lot of OLD creaky people get better, and some of them had decades of conditioning to break and they are just as free as I am.

Just keep pushing on ... you will shortly turn around and look and go 'Hey... I am getting better' . I too thought it sounded to good to be true.,... but it wasn't. Your right on time

 

[delshein86]

Just keep pushing on ... you will shortly turn around and look and go 'Hey... I am getting better' . I too thought it sounded to good to be true.,... but it wasn't. Your right on time

thank you, you really do a great job of encouraging

 

[Baseball65]

But, for all I know he is an avid ambassador of this new "cult" which I am currently too nervous about joining.

OMG... I laughed so hard I spilled my coffee. !!!! ROTFLMAO

I actually was in a 'cult' 12 step group for awhile in the 80's. A cult is distinguishable from a group ,by being dominated by the thoughts of One person with an ulterior motive....Money, Power sex. The one I was in , our guru was Boning all the hot looking young things and had a secret 'inner sanctum'... it was extraordinarily educational... but I digress.

On this forum , there are many other veterans I have 'process disagreements' on. We agree on the principle, but they go about it in a more intellectual and uhh.... friendlier? way.... I am "TMS -in your face bootcamp". But we fundamentally agree on
1. It is psychological 2. There is few if any body ills that can't be twisted or started by the mind 3. self inspection, learning and activity banish the pain

If this was a 'cult', Than I would be hellfire and brim stoning down the advice of these other people. I actually admire them and glean insights that my Boot camp might over look. Also, I stand to gain nothing by typing on my Sunday morning, other than fulfilling my ethical obligation I made to God when I got better... that I would put energy into spreading this Gospel (good news) that saved me from the shitpile....

But , no offense taken.... that was FUNNY!

 

[Sammie]

It’s sad to me baseball65 when you say the advice wasn’t for me when all people like me who are not healing like you did read this, and maybe look up to you a little bit. And you seem to come off as uncaring? Sad!

 

[Sammie]

Deishein86 sorry you are going through so much pain. Trust me I get it! I have fought a long and hard battle for years now. And trust me people who are in constant daily pain are not victims! We are WARRIORS!

My story has been a long one with no let up of pain. Back pain, neck pain, leg pain, body wide pain daily! Sometimes it even hurts to breath! Dr Schubiner has been a godsend for me. This whole thing has made me view people’s pain in a whole different light. I believe if I had shorter pain, I would not feel as understanding! I usually stay away from these sites because people talk about their pain so much it affects me in a very negative way! It makes my TMS so much worse. Sometimes I read things on here that keeps me in TMS flare! So I usually keep it turned off. I’m a HUGE believer in TMS, just don’t think it’s healthy for me to talk about it all the time. Like baseball said, everyone’s not like me. I have read all the books, probably to much. I have done the work. I keep doing the work. We must believe we can get better, but there is no magic bullet here, we just have to keep fighting! Good luck!

Hang in there, and I say above all things...”keep it real”. I always know when someone is a bullshitter!

 

[Dave81]

Hi Deishein86,
I believe first you need to accept that what you are dealing with is TMS and then you need to set your own pace. After all it’s you feel the pain!
Some people could recover in month or two, others in a year as long as your make progress and you feel better that is what matters. You shouldn’t pressure yourself, after all pressure and stress got your here.

If you haven’t found these already, hope they help:

http://www.thankyoudrsarno.org/tag/back-pain (back pain - Thank You, Dr. Sarno)

Hope this helps,
Dave