Anxiety/especially health anxiety

[SSG]

I can attest to anxietycentre.com being very beneficial. The link between anxiety and TMS is becoming more and more apparent every time I come back to these boards (tmswiki and tmshelp). It's like 35 bucks a year or something for the membership but its very clearly constructed and everything is pretty much identical to what you will read about TMS (except for rage being the number one cause of the pain). One thing Jim Folk (the owner of the website) reiterates over and over and over again is that it takes a LONG time for neurons to repair themselves when you calm your body down. This goes against when you see people cured instantly from TMS pain by reading a book. Obviously some people heal a hell of a lot faster than others because they don't doubt and fear so much. I've been doing the anxietycentre method for about 3 months now. I meditate 2-3 times a day and do affirmations with them as well, I try to exercise, eat better, and calm down my body any way I can. I had a few better days about a week ago that gave me some hope that what I've been doing is working and if you join anxietycentre you can read about Jim Folk's recovery story. He was the same as us, always wondering when the symptoms would go away, asking questions for reassurance from the doctor he was seeing, etc. It takes about 90 days of faithful practice of calming the body down to see something change for the better. He confirmed this as well and I saw a slight change in my symptoms in the last week. So apparently it is true... it takes a long time for the body to repair itself from stress induced pain.

This would correlate with Steve Ozanich's experience as well, since it took him about a year to start feeling better. I think it would be so much easier and less confusing if there wasn't so many different names for the same thing... obviously TMS is anxiety, anxiety is TMS but everybody has their own opinion on how to heal. One thing that is the constant though and doesn't vary between everyone who has TMS/anxiety is fear.

Dabatross,
This is good to know. Its nice to know that for many people...it takes a long time. I have heard some people say they conquer the pain and the anxiety goes away last, and others say the anxiety goes first and then the pain...I wonder if he mentions that?

Just curious...why have you decided to taper off the Klonopin now? Is your anxiety getting better? I have had the same situation as you describe about feeling calm and really having the anxiety in control, and then BAM...I find myself anxious and becoming very outcome dependent on my pain...monitoring ever little sensation.

Thanks for posting this, I am currently doing the SEP offered on this web-site and reading a few other books, but I will look into this anxietycentre web-site when I'm finished...if needed.

 

[dabatross]

You mean does Jim Folk mention the anxiety going first and then the pain? Yes he does. The anxiety causes stress, which causes the pain. You have to eliminate the stress hyperstimulated state for the pain to go away.

The reason I decided to come off Klonopin is because I've been on it for 4 years and my body is already tolerant of it, and it can actually cause the very symptoms you're trying to get rid of. It's called a paradox effect. Im not saying it is, but at this point I dont give a shit and don't want to take any chances. Benzos can actually increase anxiety and anxiety caused symptoms in people when the body becomes tolerant of the medication because after about 4 weeks the medication goes into the "addiction stage" where you need more of it to get the same anti-anxiety results. If you don't bump up the dosage, you can get withdrawal type symptoms just by taking the medication at the same dose. So even though you're still on the medication and its in your bloodstream, it can still cause some of the withdrawal symptoms. My anxiety isn't much better right now and that's why I started looking at what's going on to see if I can find some answers. After doing 3 months of meditation, calming my stress down, exercising, eating better (not great but better), I expected to have better results as far as my pain and anxiety goes. About a week ago I had a few days where I noticed quite a difference in the tension in my eyes and it was great, and I correlated it to doing breath meditation, affirmations, and the list of other things like what I was taking for those days and stuff.

Looks like we're in the same boat though. You feel a little better about where you're at, your anxiety has been lower for a while, your pain seems to be lower, and then all of a sudden you feel worse again and don't know why. Then you become outcome dependent again and start searching for answers. That sound familiar? I've been down that road a thousand times now.

So what Im doing now is trusting in Alan Gordon's advice and many other people I've talked to and standing up to the pain and empowering myself. I meditate twice a day, 5 minutes of affirmations before and after meditation, I still take an SSRI and weaning off Klonopin, Omega 3 fish oil 1000 EPA 500 DHA, Gabapentin 300mg twice a day, 200mg ltheanine, 2000-4000 IU vitamin d, and natural calm magnesium.

I alsn mentioned before that Im going to be seeing a new therapist next week. She specializes in mind body disorders and I want to try a technique called somato emotional release with her. Here is the definition:

"Somatoemotional Release is the release of emotional energy which was being held in the body. If emotion cannot be expressed or released at the time it was generated, or if a trauma is accompanied by strong emotions, the particular emotion(s) may become trapped in tissues of the body. SER is the process of discovering and releasing or redirecting the emotion or emotional energy. "

I've had anxiety, and now pain, for a long time and clearly something is keeping my body stirred up like this every day. It's no wonder I experience muscle tension when I feel so supercharged and stimulated inside. I should mention that I cut out pretty much all raw sugar and all caffeine from my diet as well.

 

[SSG]

You mean does Jim Folk mention the anxiety going first and then the pain? Yes he does. The anxiety causes stress, which causes the pain. You have to eliminate the stress hyperstimulated state for the pain to go away.

The reason I decided to come off Klonopin is because I've been on it for 4 years and my body is already tolerant of it, and it can actually cause the very symptoms you're trying to get rid of. It's called a paradox effect. Im not saying it is, but at this point I dont give a shit and don't want to take any chances. Benzos can actually increase anxiety and anxiety caused symptoms in people when the body becomes tolerant of the medication because after about 4 weeks the medication goes into the "addiction stage" where you need more of it to get the same anti-anxiety results. If you don't bump up the dosage, you can get withdrawal type symptoms just by taking the medication at the same dose. So even though you're still on the medication and its in your bloodstream, it can still cause some of the withdrawal symptoms. My anxiety isn't much better right now and that's why I started looking at what's going on to see if I can find some answers. After doing 3 months of meditation, calming my stress down, exercising, eating better (not great but better), I expected to have better results as far as my pain and anxiety goes. About a week ago I had a few days where I noticed quite a difference in the tension in my eyes and it was great, and I correlated it to doing breath meditation, affirmations, and the list of other things like what I was taking for those days and stuff.

Looks like we're in the same boat though. You feel a little better about where you're at, your anxiety has been lower for a while, your pain seems to be lower, and then all of a sudden you feel worse again and don't know why. Then you become outcome dependent again and start searching for answers. That sound familiar? I've been down that road a thousand times now.

So what Im doing now is trusting in Alan Gordon's advice and many other people I've talked to and standing up to the pain and empowering myself. I meditate twice a day, 5 minutes of affirmations before and after meditation, I still take an SSRI and weaning off Klonopin, Omega 3 fish oil 1000 EPA 500 DHA, Gabapentin 300mg twice a day, 200mg ltheanine, 2000-4000 IU vitamin d, and natural calm magnesium.

I alsn mentioned before that Im going to be seeing a new therapist next week. She specializes in mind body disorders and I want to try a technique called somato emotional release with her. Here is the definition:

"Somatoemotional Release is the release of emotional energy which was being held in the body. If emotion cannot be expressed or released at the time it was generated, or if a trauma is accompanied by strong emotions, the particular emotion(s) may become trapped in tissues of the body. SER is the process of discovering and releasing or redirecting the emotion or emotional energy. "

I've had anxiety, and now pain, for a long time and clearly something is keeping my body stirred up like this every day. It's no wonder I experience muscle tension when I feel so supercharged and stimulated inside. I should mention that I cut out pretty much all raw sugar and all caffeine from my diet as well.

Okay, thanks Dabatross! That's interesting...and I've wondered it about it for awhile. I actually had anxiety over my symptoms. So, I wasn't sure which comes and leaves first...the pain or the anxiety.

I am on Xanax and Buspar. The SSRIs did not work for me, unfortunately. I hate taking the Xanax, but it truthfully still helps me. I take a very small dosage...but I do take it daily and have since March. I realize it's addictive, but it has given me a sense of my life back, and I need it for now. I tried Klonopin because two doctors said it is not addictive (like Xanax), but it just made me WAY too sleepy...all day. My sister said she took Xanax for 2 years and was able to come off fairly easily (over about 1 weeks time).

You are taking a bunch of supplements, and if they are helping you then great! I only know that personally, they didn't do much for me. I have a whole shelf of various supplements: B12, Magnesium, Vit D, Vit C, probiotic, etc. I went through a few months where I cut out several things from my diet, and was taking many supplements daily. It became like a crutch for me and in my mind was a reminder to me of my pain/anxiety. I actually lost 20 lbs (that I didn't have to lose). I probably went a little extreme as I cut out all dairy and wheat...I was miserable. I finally decided to start eating normal again. It actually caused more anxiety to go back to normal than I had thought. I was so afraid that I was hurting my body be eating these foods. I still think about it, but remind myself of all the people that eat these foods and are fine, and that even when I wasn't eating them...I never felt any better. So, I say this to make the point that if this diet and supplements are helping you...that's great! Otherwise, I think they can just give you one more thing to add to you "worry" list.

I wish you the best. Again, thanks for the post!

 

[SSG]

Great post, Dabatross - it's nice to "see" you again and I'm glad you're finding success!


This calming-down period ties in with the concept of conditioning. Our bodies become conditioned to responding a certain way, and the only way to change the response is to change your brain. This is the basis for the mirror therapy that V.S. Ramachandran came up with for phantom limb pain - which is the poster child for conditioned pain response. I found this bit of information to be incredibly helpful in my ability to recover more quickly from TMS symptoms as they crop up.


~Jan

Hi Jan. Can you possibly expand on how this mirror therapy basis helped you recover from TMS more quickly? I read about this therapy, and it is fascinating. Did you actually have it done, or just become aware of it...and it helped you? Thanks!

 

[Leslie735]

Thank you everyone for sharing your advice. I need to work on my anxiety, it's been really bad lately and that alone worries me.

 

[chickenbone]

Leslie, I really completed my recovery using the works of someone named Guy Finley. His website is called guyfinleynow.org. I downloaded his talks and listened to them each night when I went to bed. This is more in the realm of spiritualism, but he understands the human mind better than anyone I ever read. I had a lot of therapy in my lifetime, but for some reason, this never worked for me and sometimes actually made me feel worse. I realized that spiritualism, REAL spiritualism, not the POP stuff of today, was a huge shortcut to recovery. Guy has a saying "The feeling is real, the why is the lie". What this is saying to me is that we get so bogged down with how we are and WHY we are the way we are that we never get anywhere. So when you truly accept the way you are - that aspects of your mind are working AGAINST your health and happiness, you can learn, not to fight these aspects (which is just another way of making them more important than they are), but to realize they really have no power over you and you are free to just DROP them. I occasionally, under stress, get another symptom somewhere that begins to frighten me and send my mind into a frenzy of worry and distraction. The last time this happened, after about 2 hours and realizing what was happening to me, I actually made a conscious decision to LET GO of it. I just decided that I was going to enjoy the wonderful day I had planned and DROP the pain as well as the consciousness causing it. Within an hour, all the pain and fear was gone. I never felt so empowered in my life, although a little shaky. It took a long time to arrive at this point after a lifetime of psychosomatic symptoms and pain.

 

[dabatross]

SSG yeah everybody is different when it comes to that stuff. I was just sharing my personal experience with it and that I believe it was time to come off, if its helping you thats great and good news. as far as the supplements go, I too have tried a number of them in the past with limited success so I know what you're getting at. Im just trying to eat better and take supplements as needed for vitamins and stuff that I'm not getting enough of because my diet still isn't where it should be. I think I'm probably missing a good amount of vitamins and minerals during the day because I'm not eating well enough so need to tackle that.

Leslie I would try calming yourself down by meditating at least twice a day, that might help you a lot. Also the obvious one is exercising.

Chickenbone thanks for posting this about Guy Finley. I want to become more spiritual in my life because I really don't have any. I grew up in a household of athiests and nobody believed in faith until I was much older so it's harder for me to go down that path. Chickenbone, do you also have your success story posted somewhere? I would be interested in reading it. I've heard of other people where spirituality really was the key for them as well including Jim Folk, Steve Ozanich, and some others.

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

I'm writing a new post on anxiety and how being preoccupied with symptoms can bring pain or
keep us in pain. It will be posted soon, with some good tips from Dr. Sarno, Alan Gordon, and
Claire Weekes.

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

Hi, datatross. That's an interesting article. I take B6 and B12 vitamin supplements and
wonder now if I should. I eat a lot of fresh fruit and veggies, and almost no meat ever.
Maybe the B's aren't as good for me as I thought. I'll look into it.

 

[chickenbone]

Hi Dabatross, to answer your question, I have not posted my recovery story yet because I keep wanting to be completely sure that I am recovered. It seems that when people first realize that they are recovered, they worry that posting a recovery story will jinx them. I have heard so many recovered people who say that, just after posting their story, they get some terrible symptom, sort of as a last-ditch effort of some dark part of the mind to say "OH NO you are not and I will prove it". But this is normal. So my real excuse is that I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I will. Also, and this is a bit of a paradox, but most people don't have any idea of what recovery is until they recover. I used to think that recovery meant being pain-free and anxiety-free, but I now know that it has nothing to do with that, although you often get that also. Recovery to me is more about finally OWNING our own attention. Now, I decide where to put my attention. Before, my attention was constantly hijacked by parts of my own mind that I believed I had no control over. I believed I was being forced to focus on pain, fear and anxiety. This was a vicious circle that literally stole my life. Now, I have an effective barrier to that in my awareness. Now, when destructive aspects of my mind want my attention, I know that I can simply withdraw my attention and nothing bad will happen. This may be the actual "knowledge penicillin" that Dr. Sarno spoke about. It is an elusive thing, but once you have it, you will never lose it. One of the things I want to talk about when I write my recovery story is what recovery really means, a topic that has not been covered much.

 

[Tennis Tom]

As long as we are part of the HUMAN CONDITION and have not ascended to sainthood or transcended to guru-ness, we will be subject to life's vicissitudes from time to time. And, when they pile up enough we may be gifted with TMS symptoms as a PROTECTOR.

I've recovered from or staved-off many TMS psychosomatic symptoms, from cramps to mid-night ruminations on a daily/nightly basis. I've never posted a "success story", although if my chronic structural pain, my arthritic hip evaporates overnight, I will write one and probably write a book too (or hire a ghost writer, because I'll be too busy playing tennis 24/7 to write anything).

I've heard Dr. Sarno still gets TMS symptoms, and he wrote the book(s)--so if they're good enough for him they're good enough for me.

 

[Forest]

That sounds like a really big contribution, Chickenbone. There is so much wisdom available in us peers, and often we really have to grow to get better. I won't call it a blessing, but with a mind-body condition, when people make progress after some delays, it is often because they figured out how to be kinder to themselves in the way they live. I guess the pain helps us focus on this, so maybe it really is a message.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

One really interesting thing is that when I feel like this, my heart rate has always been at 90-92 bpm. My calm heart rate is 72-75, when I feel short of breath and agitated/anxious it's at 92 this has to mean something

You know what it means, D - your brain is getting your body ready to fight or to flee!

The neuroscientists tell us that the human brain is constantly scanning the horizon for danger - the problem is that in our modern society, for most of us lucky enough to live in safe and prosperous countries, there is no actual danger just over the horizon - but we're unconsciously expecting it anyway. This served us well when all we had to do was survive long enough to breed the next generation, but it's not healthy in today's world, and it's especially not healthy to do it for decade after decade after decade. You have to figure out how to break that conditioning. I often talk to myself when I'm driving - a great place (in a city, anyway) to experience how my brain looks for danger and for lurking enemies - like that idiot who just cut me off or didn't use their turn signal. I remind myself that everyone out on the road is just trying to get where they're going, and they're not all the best drivers in the world, but I've made my own share of driving mistakes, and they are NOT the enemy, and I'm going to get where I need to be, and I'm perfectly safe. It's an interesting exercise.

 

[chickenbone]

Forest, I believe you are absolutely right that the pain is a message. And, like Guy says, when you are really sick and tired of the pain, you will change. It is really all about how we treat ourselves, we will never be able to love others unless we love ourselves. It is extremely painful to see how you have been your own worst enemy. I don't know what it was about Guy's material that it finally got through to me. There is a big difference between "knowing" on an intellectual level and the type of "knowing" that happens internally on a gut level.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Hi Jan. Can you possibly expand on how this mirror therapy basis helped you recover from TMS more quickly? I read about this therapy, and it is fascinating. Did you actually have it done, or just become aware of it...and it helped you? Thanks!

Hi SSG!

It's pretty useful for pain. Last summer I had an irritating and non-specific pain in my right forearm that I noticed when doing just about anything - even just lifting my arm. Where it came from, I have no idea. I decided to focus on how my left arm did NOT hurt when I did those same things, and started consciously thinking about my non-painful left arm when I wanted to use my right arm. At the same time I told my brain to stop laying down a pain pathway to my right arm, that it was not necessary and I wasn't going to buy into it. I did a brief meditation for several mornings in a row, talking to my brain and visualizing using my right arm with no pain. After a while, I realized that I wasn't experiencing the pain anymore.

I use a similar technique for digestive distress - or what I used to experience as distress, but now I just cut it off with deep breathing and telling my brain to not mess with me - and again, I think in terms of "that's totally unnecessary - let's not go there". This is also a form of visualization, in that I can easily imagine NOT feeling queasy or crampy or whatever is possibly going on.

I have less success with "brain fog" or dizziness, or various head symptoms that my brain seems to have come up with because I'm having too much success banishing the other symptoms. Tricky devil.

~Jan

 

[JanAtheCPA]

What this is saying to me is that we get so bogged down with how we are and WHY we are the way we are that we never get anywhere. So when you truly accept the way you are - that aspects of your mind are working AGAINST your health and happiness, you can learn, not to fight these aspects (which is just another way of making them more important than they are), but to realize they really have no power over you and you are free to just DROP them. .

CB, I believe that this is THE key to recovery. Easier said than done - but once you "get it" it is a life-changer - and by George, you've got it!

Just to be clear for everyone reading this - by "recovery" I mean being able to do what you described -

The last time this happened, after about 2 hours and realizing what was happening to me, I actually made a conscious decision to LET GO of it. I just decided that I was going to enjoy the wonderful day I had planned and DROP the pain as well as the consciousness causing it. Within an hour, all the pain and fear was gone. I never felt so empowered in my life, although a little shaky. It took a long time to arrive at this point after a lifetime of psychosomatic symptoms and pain.

To me, being able to do this IS success. No doubt about it. As a chronic life-long sufferer of anxiety and what I now know are many many many decades of TMS symptoms, I do not expect to be "cured" of symptoms. For one thing, I've learned that our brains are wired to be negative, so it's kind of a constant battle against that primitive hard-wiring. What I DO expect of the rest of my life is that when presented with symptoms, I will recognize them, and LET GO as you said.

Regarding "success stories" I think that any single successful event qualifies as a success story and "should" (that's a bad word here ) be posted. I recently posted my own successful incident, because maybe the techniques I employed can help someone.

Go for it, CB - and keep up the great work!

~Jan

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Thank you everyone for sharing your advice. I need to work on my anxiety, it's been really bad lately and that alone worries me.

Leslie - your anxiety, like any other TMS symptom, is trying to tell you something. Worrying wastes energy and distracts you from what's really going on. Chickenbone and Tennis Tom really get this now, and they are discovering the power of letting go.

One thing that helped me early on was to change my relationship with my anxiety. I started talking to it instead of thinking about it as this "thing" that was holding me back and causing me distress. I even developed a short visualization in which my anxiety was like the figure in that famous painting "The Scream" and in my visualization it would run off into the distance in frustration because I wasn't interested in letting it get to me. Once I did that, I could focus on whatever emotion was being repressed, which the anxiety was trying to hide.

Whatever works

~Jan

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Still catching up on this great thread - it looks like Tennis Tom should post in the Success Stories forum, too!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Forest, I believe you are absolutely right that the pain is a message. And, like Guy says, when you are really sick and tired of the pain, you will change. It is really all about how we treat ourselves, we will never be able to love others unless we love ourselves. It is extremely painful to see how you have been your own worst enemy. I don't know what it was about Guy's material that it finally got through to me. There is a big difference between "knowing" on an intellectual level and the type of "knowing" that happens internally on a gut level.

I don't know, Forest - we might have to put these posts from Chickenbone in the Success Stories forum ourselves ... this is what I've been experiencing, but I haven't been able to explain it.

 

[chickenbone]

Hi Jan, thanks so much for the kind words and vote of confidence. It sounds to me like you are well on your way to recovery also. We really develop a changed mind set when we begin to come through the fog and start to see things clearly. We wonder why we never saw this before. I still find it so amazing that I did not "get it" before. But there is a lot of work to be done after "getting it". We have to consciously use our awareness to avoid falling into the same old mind traps and get carried away and taken over by these dark states of the mind. I think modern psychology would refer to them as defense mechanisms.

It was pretty amazing when I was able to come out of a bad TMS attack by literally making a conscious decision to put my attention elsewhere. I really did not think the pain and fear would go away so soon. In fact I warned myself that it could stick around for a day or so, but I needed to not FEED IT. What was really amazing is that I had no sooner succeeded in focusing entirely on what I was doing in the moment (making dinner for my family) when I noticed that the pain had indeed gone. I am now working on doing attention exercises and trying to notice, without judgement, all the the times my mind has grabbed my attention away from the NOW moment. When I notice this, I bring back my awareness. I have gradually realized that, when I have been swept away by pain and fear, this is actually aspects of my mind that have substituted their reality for the true reality that only exists in the NOW moment. I then realize I have been taken over and reclaim my awareness for my self - for my own good. Guy Finley teaches us to ask ourselves often "Where am I?". If I have drifted away from the moment, I gently reclaim my awareness. This has been very effective for me at keeping pain and fear away. I can't tell you how much better I am and the new feeling of freedom is wonderful.

As you can probably tell, I am still a bit shaky in my recovery.