Ankle Sprain - Still In Pain

[zeeman01]

Hey folks, I had probably like a grade 2 sprain playing sports when someone fell on my ankle around 7.5 weeks ago. I've done 4 weeks of physical therapy and stretches I can walk without a limp and there has been improvements but it starts to hurt after being on my feet for more than like 15 mins. i also still have lots of pain around the Posterior Tibial Tendon almost always. Most literature says I should be healed by now but it seems the stretches lately are only adding to the pain.

I went to see a Orthopedic surgeon and he evaluated my leg. new xrays show nothing wrong. He had me walk on my toes and twisted my around around which i did no problem. He said my ankle is "very strong and very stable" but the tendons need more time to heal. He thinks it could take 6 months to heal. I asked for an MRI and he says it's a bad ideas as it will find false positives and other things to chase down that won't be relevant but I want one anyway but being in Canada it's going to take 3 months wait to get it.

So my question is could this ankle injury develop into TMS type pain. With all this anxiety and limitations around my foot i am now getting old tms symptoms come back up such as Reflux and I've even having bouts of sweating and very anxious.

I have a lot of fear about walking now and using my ankle and i'm very tuned into the pain all the time. Any advice or help would be great. I've started trying to do more stuff and push it a bit but the pain spikes a bit when that happens.

 

[Cactusflower]

Anything can become TMS if anxiety, fear, and focus are involved. Since “old” TMS patterns are returning… I think you are well aware of where you are at. Your post is 100% physically focused. You’ve made no mention of the states of mind or emotions and stress this has created. Forcing yourself to continually focus only on the physical is creating even more symptoms - you need to do the work so you can continue the natural healing process and bio TMS in the bud!

 

[zeeman01]

Okay thanks Cactus. I think I understand what you mean. I need to focus on my emotional and mental state of mind and not on the physical to find peace and calm.

 

[Cactusflower]

Have you ever read a book by Dr. Sarno or done any TMS “work”? It’s often far more than just focusing on emotions - it goes much deeper.
Dr. Sarno says “think psychological” and to look for the intersection of TMS personality traits, and subconscious rage. If you’ve never actually employed TMS strategies or educated yourself about it, now’s a great time to learn! You’ll have a set of tools to use any time you suspect something physical may be more than it seems..

 

[Baseball65]

i'm very tuned into the pain all the time

Therein lies the TMS. I have had many gnarly real injuries...(Broken spine, severed thumb, broken arm, etc)...they only hurt for a short initial period and then I forgot about them..or didn't notice at all. TMS however can take anything, real or not , and turn it into a fixation...I wasn't fixated on those real injuries because I know they would heal themselves...
..and your knowledge of 'rating' and 'naming' all of the pieces is also going to have the unintended consequence of making you fixate even more..might be a good time to unlearn a lot of that..it is only real in pain clinics and orthopedic clinics which don't have a lot of parolees..most people who go to them are lifers!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

I asked for an MRI and he says it's a bad ideas as it will find false positives and other things to chase down that won't be relevant

Well, thank goodness docs are starting to say this. Pure Sarno. IOW, Brilliant!

but I want one anyway

No, you don't. It's your primitive fearful TMS brain that wants this, for the sole purpose of keeping you stuck in the fear/pain cycle.

Read (or re-read) Sarno. Learn about "doing the work" which it sounds like you never did. It means you gotta get down and dirty with real emotions - more than just your shallow fears and stresses that your brain wants you to focus on.

 

[zeeman01]

Just wanted to post an update on my ankle for anyone who sees this in the future. I am probably 90% better now. I think some sprains take longer to heal for me it was round 3 months. I took around 1.5 weeks off of phsyio at 7 week mark and let the ankle rest and that helped a bit a found another physio guy who started more gently but then then pushed. One TMS related area that helped was listening to a Curable App recovery story on foot pain. The story goes that he started walking a bit further each day and until he got to 2 miles and then ran even in pain. I did the same thing each day a pushed a bit more with pain and eventually things started improving. I think my fear and negative focus stalled the healing process but i'm in a good place now.

 

[TG957]

Incidentally, I sprained my ankle and fractured my fibula in early July. An experienced TMS-er, as I was dealing with the swelling and pain, I was wondering if I was going to end up with chronic pain in that area because I was very anxious about my recovery. The best advice I got from the doctors was to not allow myself to limp. Even better advice came from a fellow hiker/runner. She recommended to walk as soon as I can and as much as I can. Once I started pushing myself, my recovery started moving faster. My doctors still believe that I am not doing more than 3 miles per day, while I have been hiking 8-10 miles a day and even went on a short backpacking trip in the mountains - but please, don't tell them that I am violating their orders! Once you start busying yourself with getting active, your brain gets busy with other things and forgets about pain!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

You betcha, @TG957! That's a bummer, but of course as an experienced TMSer it's just life, you do what you need to do, you visualize healing, and you heal. End of story. Happy hiking! And I'll never tell

When I had a fairly minor fracture of my hip in 2008 (several years "before Sarno") and had pins inserted the next day, they had me on crutches the day after that (plus I had to learn stairs for our house) and I was able to start using a walker and carefully bear weight at about 3 weeks. They also had me do PT exercises right away, which I did religiously several times a day. I had to take a blood thinner because I was 58 and it was surgery below the waist, but the visiting nurse who came over the first week to monitor me and test my blood said that putting me on the thinner was obviously overkill, because that requirement is based on an assumption that I would be sedentary. Hah! (I guess they ignored the fact that I broke my hip when I crashed my bicycle at somewhat high speed, LOL). I was told that choosing the surgery over natural healing would technically mean a longer recovery because it meant cutting through a bunch of thigh muscle, but that I could actually be more active right away, because the pins would stabilize the hip bone the way a cast stabilizes a leg bone. So I chose the surgery. I guess I just decided that I could heal fine from the incision without any repercussions, and I really wanted to be as active and as independent as possible - ASAP! And yeah, there was pain from the incision site for quite a while as those muscle fibers had to grow back together and learn how to work again - but I was never scared of the pain, because I knew what it was and I knew I was safe and doing what I needed to do.

I still believe that this experience of intensely self-determined recovery (along with my often-told ER story of how my initial pain instantly plummeted from about 8 to 3 when I was told I didn't need to be bedridden for six weeks) was very influential in my later TMS success.

In this work, mindset is everything.

 

[TG957]

You betcha, @TG957! That's a bummer, but of course as an experienced TMSer it's just life, you do what you need to do, you visualize healing, and you heal. End of story. Happy hiking! And I'll never tell

When I had a fairly minor fracture of my hip in 2008 (several years "before Sarno") and had pins inserted the next day, they had me on crutches the day after that (plus I had to learn stairs for our house) and I was able to start using a walker and carefully bear weight at about 3 weeks. They also had me do PT exercises right away, which I did religiously several times a day. I had to take a blood thinner because I was 58 and it was surgery below the waist, but the visiting nurse who came over the first week to monitor me and test my blood said that putting me on the thinner was obviously overkill, because that requirement is based on an assumption that I would be sedentary. Hah! (I guess they ignored the fact that I broke my hip when I crashed my bicycle at somewhat high speed, LOL). I was told that choosing the surgery over natural healing would technically mean a longer recovery because it meant cutting through a bunch of thigh muscle, but that I could actually be more active right away, because the pins would stabilize the hip bone the way a cast stabilizes a leg bone. So I chose the surgery. I guess I just decided that I could heal fine from the incision without any repercussions, and I really wanted to be as active and as independent as possible - ASAP! And yeah, there was pain from the incision site for quite a while as those muscle fibers had to grow back together and learn how to work again - but I was never scared of the pain, because I knew what it was and I knew I was safe and doing what I needed to do.

I still believe that this experience of intensely self-determined recovery (along with my often-told ER story of how my initial pain instantly plummeted from about 8 to 3 when I was told I didn't need to be bedridden for six weeks) was very influential in my later TMS success.

In this work, mindset is everything.

Love, love, love your story! The pain level plummeting from 8 to 3 is a classic TMS example!

 

[Diana-M]

@TG957 and @JanAtheCPA — those are great stories of bravery and healing! Sorry you broke your fibula this summer, @TG957! Awesome you are hiking again!

 

[Baseball65]

I was very anxious about my recovery.

That little gem is the essence of us.

On pg 37 of HBP there is a paragraph about anxiety that I did NOT understand the first, fourth or tenth read through.

"....such an individual would be anxious about how things would turn out." Wait. Who is he talking about? Anxious about what?

It was like my brain couldn't wrap around that being me, because when you're reading your 100% logical analytical brain is on.
I recently got told that the big mass on my wrist was NOT a cyst, but could be any of a handful of other scary things. I sat and read the message from the doc and had a crisis moment. Right then, I realized it was the KNOWING that I wanted. I wanted to know WTF is growing there.

I also realized that my fear (ANXIETY) is about the unknown. I actually think that is always there and any time we feel something or see something weird it is a physical manifestation of a spiritual truth..we are all dying and aging. What am I really afraid of??

so I sat and thought about what I am afraid of and made a list...earning a living, playing guitar, not being a burden on others, taking care of my dog.

wait...those fears are ALWAYS there just under the surface, this dumb blob is just making me have to think about them. But I'd rather think about those than have TMS. So, its really just a choice. As soon as I swallowed that, I went back to not caring about it.

"....such an individual would be anxious about how things would turn out." I am such an individual, but because I know I am, I'm not any more.... Huh????

exactly

 

[TG957]

I also realized that my fear (ANXIETY) is about the unknown. I actually think that is always there and any time we feel something or see something weird it is a physical manifestation of a spiritual truth..we are all dying and aging. What am I really afraid of??

This is how I distinguish between fear and anxiety: fear is a negative emotion towards a specific, present or imminent danger (pain, death, dog bite etc). Anxiety is a manifestation of inner worry in search for the cause to latch on. I was nervous and worried when I broke my ankle, and so my nervousness found a cause: what if my pain would never go away? Of course it went away, but my worry found the next cause!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Of course it went away, but my worry found the next cause!

Yeeeup.

 

[Diana-M]

Yeeeup.

Oh yeah! We were probably always worry warts from way back. That’s the reason we are TMSers. And aging provides SO MUCH eminent tragedy to choose from. Because like Baseball said… we are in fact dying. Aging is heading in that direction. Can’t avoid it. The whole trick is going to be getting to a calm place and staying there. Faith is a big deal— if you have it in a higher power or in a belief or concept of your choice. But also just plain BRAIN control. Controlling these rascally gray blobs: controlling them. Choosing to be happy. Choosing to LIVE all the way til the end. Happy and free. Choosing not to let fear and rage overtake us. I spend a lot of time these days just preaching to my brain.

 

[Bealillie]

Wow I wish I could say the same as all you. I began having peroneal tendinitis beginning of year, never got PT until much later because I thought it would get in the way and reinforce my weak ankle. So once I stated PT, it didn’t help,too much because I began to avoid all movement or shoes that hurt and was told I need orthotics because of both ankles being unstable. Eventually back and knee followed and dependence on one shoe which I dislike. At this point i am in more pain have nerve pain in both soles and ankles real strange stuff with unclear answers. Have left my life as I knew it and it’s hard to do TMS work because of doubt and certain life and financial pressures. Others’ stories are hopeful however I don’t know where to start.

 

[Diana-M]

Hi @Bealillie ,
Welcome! The best place to start is with the Structured Educational Program here on the wiki. https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Structured_Educational_Program (Structured Educational Program) It will give you a good foundation. Have you read anything by John Sarno, MD, yet? The Divided Mind and Healing Back Pain are both good starting places. He explains all about what TMS is and how to heal it. Then just come on this forum and ask questions or read up on what people are chatting about. After a while, you will have way more hope!

 

[Bealillie]

Thank you . Yes I know Sarno work well and even went to see him once for an issue many years ago and it was helpful. I also in the 1990s worked with a Sarno trained psychoanalyst. I have had back pain at various points which I conquered this way and I’ve also had numerous ankle issues in the past which eventually healed in natural time.So now I feel baffled and hopeless about what has evolved and that all my tools seem to have disappeared as has the self confidence to get through the muddle. I guess I write out of fear and exhaustion and wondering if others have ever felt lost and how you found a way through.

 

[Diana-M]

I have felt exactly like you, and still do on many days. I’ve had symptoms go away on their own through the years. Then, this last round of symptoms I’ve had for the past 4 years is very stubborn. I’ve noticed this pattern with a lot of people on this forum. They get rid of symptoms and get symptoms again and they get surprised. But it seems to be typical. I learned about Sarno in 2017 and was able to eliminate my symptoms at the time. Now I’m back at it and it’s very hard. I’m a writer and my hands are affected, so it has hindered my work and affected my self esteem. I joined the wiki 5 months ago and I have learned SO much and have steadily gained optimism and hope. I got it from reading all the success stories in here and getting advice from people who have healed. It’s definitely not what I thought it would be. The healing process takes time, self discovery and perseverance. You’ll feel better!

 

[Bealillie]

Thanks always appreciate this support!