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Age And TMS

T

tmcquigg@gmail..com

Newcomer
I used this forum 12 years ago when I was a young man of 65t o relieve severe, activity restricting back pain. I'm fine now at 77, doing yoga, riding my bike, lifting weights and generally being a good for nothing. However, many of my friends, some now moving into their 80's, are struggling with back, knee and hip pain. Many would seem to be TMS prone personalities. Since old people talk with annoying consistency about their health I hear their stories. I never know what to say. Is this bodily pain just the way of all flesh as we age or is it TMS? Frankly I don't know how to even broach the subject without offending people.
Any advice.
 
tmcquigg@gmail..com said:
Since old people talk with annoying consistency about their health I hear their stories. I never know what to say. Is this bodily pain just the way of all flesh as we age or is it TMS?
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Geez, you young people. You're out there for years, living your best TMS-free life and suddenly you're back, "just" looking for an answer to the Ultimate Question.

I mean, we know that the answer to the Ultimate Question is 42, right?
 
Sorry, @tmcquigg@gmail..com - I just couldn't help myself :p Seriously, welcome back ;)

Although, 42 is a decent stand-in for a better answer (with all due credit to the brilliant Douglas Adams), because at almost 74, having been active on the forum since I was 60, I've been asking myself essentially the same thing, for the same reasons, for at least five years.

I have a lot of certainty about the mindbody genesis of many more conditions than Dr Sarno originally theorized, but when you throw aging into the mix, I do feel like it muddies the water.

I'm happy to brainstorm this topic, since you brought it up. But now I'm going to sleep on it. Maybe some of our peers in earlier time zones will comment in the meantime.
 
tmcquigg@gmail..com said:
I used this forum 12 years ago when I was a young man of 65t o relieve severe, activity restricting back pain. I'm fine now at 77, doing yoga, riding my bike, lifting weights and generally being a good for nothing. However, many of my friends, some now moving into their 80's, are struggling with back, knee and hip pain. Many would seem to be TMS prone personalities. Since old people talk with annoying consistency about their health I hear their stories. I never know what to say. Is this bodily pain just the way of all flesh as we age or is it TMS? Frankly I don't know how to even broach the subject without offending people.
Any advice.
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This is a wonderful inspiring story, because I’m 65 right now and I would surely love to be doing what you’re doing when I’m 77! Good for you! we sometimes talk on this form about aging and how many people have TMS and also how sad it is that you can’t tell them anything. I can’t remember the number, but I think Dr. Sarno said only 5% of the people would ever believe him. I would think your friends would be pretty impressed by your recovery. that’s probably the best advertising you could give.
 
tmcquigg@gmail..com said:
Since old people talk with annoying consistency about their health I hear their stories. I never know what to say.
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You must be in a Great spiritual place to endure that w/o getting symptoms. The ONLY people I listen to gripes from is people wit TMS (Like on this forum).
Can't tell you how many times I have listened to griping and then succumbed to similar symptoms in short order..I must be particularly sensitive. I usually just say "Blah, blah, blah" in my head while they are counting coup or whatever it is they think they are doing.

"MOM...do you know ANYBODY who doesn't have a tumor? I am eating a Plum here in the back seat"
-Bill Hicks
 
I am in my mid-80s. No chronic pain for me during the last decade or so (I don’t actually remember the last time). This is despite my having had TMS of one kind or another for more than half a century before that. It all boils down to this: What you get is what you expect.

Sarno claimed in The Divided Mind at pp. 143-44 that some old people get TMS because of unconscious anger about their death being on the horizon, which he said “is more common than you would think.” I don’t buy that despite the fact that as I have been working this week on our complicated joint 2024 income tax return, I have been acutely aware that when I finish, I will need to write a memo for the file about how to handle certain things on the 2025 tax return in case I am not around to prepare it myself. I think Sarno overplays Freud’s theory of an unconscious, childish, selfish, narcissistic id when he (Sarno) says that anger about one’s mortality is more common than you would think.
 
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Baseball65 said:
"MOM...do you know ANYBODY who doesn't have a tumor? I am eating a Plum here in the back seat"
-Bill Hicks
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lol! So true! All anyone wants to talk about is their latest illness or surgery and I have ended up avoiding a lot of people because of it.
Duggit said:
It all boils down to this: What you get is what you expect.
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I need to put this on my refrigerator!
 
Duggit said:
What you get is what you expect
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Indeed. That's where I fall on the spectrum. Aging ain't great, nor, as they say, is it for sissies. But it is what it is, and those who expect the worst will surely have their expectations met. So sure, I'm stiffer in the mornings, but I assume it will go away and it does, even if I have a random stress flare. I'm not happy about the sagging skin, thinning hair, or disappearing eyelashes, eyebrows, and ass, but it's not like I'm trying to impress anyone. I'm on low doses of two old-school basic medications which are doing what they should without any side effects. My new rheumatologist says that my RA is "in remission with medication" which is fine with me. I know that there are many many people with RA who are clueless about the stress source of their inflammation, who don't achieve remission on ever-changing drug regimens, and who develop multiple other syndromes that we know are TMS.

I am quite sure, as a fully-committed TMSer, that I could reduce both my blood pressure and my inflammatory markers without the meds if I meditated every day for an hour, but I've decided that the self-imposed pressure of failing to meet that goal is worse than just taking the meds. Is it ideal? That's just another word for perfect, and the more I let go of perfectionism the happier I am. The last thing anyone needs right now is unnecessary pressure.

But of course the question is how to handle the majority of people in our lives who aren't on board. We can't isolate ourselves, that's for sure - unless a particular complainer has no other socially redeeming qualities... but even then, sometimes we don't have the choice to just cut someone out of our lives.

Leading by example, as Diana says, is going to be the one thing we can always do, all of the time. After that, different people or groups call for different strategies.
Don't enable the complainers to keep complaining. Be polite, but don't engage. Give yourself permission to tune out the energy vampires if you can't totally cut them off. You can always talk about the positive effects you experience with exercise. The "Yes, but ..." responses can be counteracted with logic ("take it slow, work with a PT or trainer, something is better than nothing")
. Invite someone to exercise with you. If only one person takes you up on it, that's a win!
 
The thing about aging is all the changes occurring, mostly unwelcome and often an emergency. Yesterday I visited my friend in a retirement facility. When I left, I was overwhelmed with stress. I had to stop and acknowledge what was happening. I am almost 80 and fully aware of what the future holds. But it is scary. Aging and the lack of control is a huge trigger for tms. Accepting it is not easy. Allowing the grief helps but it is never easy.
 
Hey there @Smokey73, it's been awhile, good to have you join the convo.

I'm with you 100%. This awareness we've been given is not necessarily a gift, and the fact of mortality for eternity is terrifying. I recall stuffing the terror down even as a kid, but it became the trigger of my TMS crisis at 60. Thankfully, one of Dr Sarno's authors in The Divided Mind listed aging and mortality as sources of repressed rage, and the light bulb went on. It's not great, but as you described, stopping to mindfully acknowledge the fear is at least a powerful tool to relieve symptoms and enjoy a better quality of life than those who are still repressing.
 
Thanks for all your input. I shared Smokey's experience recently of visiting two friends in two different assisted living facilities. Just having my poor company seemed to give them a lot of pleasure since they're both isolated from their former community. As I expected, there is no neat answer to my question wrapped up in a box. As with most of the big issues, gently asking the question is, curiously, enough, the answer or maybe better the response, at least as long as you don't seek to force a resolution. We're all here for one another even if we can't make the lame walk.
 
I am grateful for this thread and everyone's comments. One of the things about TMS is the people who say, "You're old now. It's nothing but pain from here on in." I'm 57. I get the body ages and there will be issues, but I don't think everything should be dismissed as "you're old now," although it is a reality. Learning about TMS and hearing people's stories is eye-opening and inspiring. I had absolutely none of the pains by which I am currently challenged until I went through a few life changing highly stressful situations last January. It's good to read these posts.
 
Are than any 50+ athlete here dealing with TMS? I'm interested in hearing how they navigate staying physically active and athletic with TMS. HIIT exercises and weights have always been the main way I have addressed anxiety, but now that TMS is in the mix it has been trickier.
 
@Jimmy Todd, I can't put my finger on how to untangle the convoluted assumptions about TMS that are the basis of your question, so I'm going to have to think about it. In the meantime, where are you with your self-education? SEP? Alan's program here on the forum? Books? (if you've described this in another post feel free to point us there)
 
Jimmy Todd said:
Are than any 50+ athlete here dealing with TMS? I'm interested in hearing how they navigate staying physically active and athletic with TMS. HIIT exercises and weights have always been the main way I have addressed anxiety, but now that TMS is in the mix it has been trickier.
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Meditation. I meditate daily, sometimes twice a day and one day a week longer, for an hour with a group of yogis. No talking, just meditation in silence for an hour.

I also gave up doing HIIT and more strenuous workouts since I had some hormonal changes. I'm 55 yo. I do more walking these days, Pilates and aerobic.

I never think of aging but I'm from a communist country. There are other things there in people's minds. Aging is on the bottom of the list. No offence, this is the truth.
 
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