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Joe Dispenza and Ramtha's School of Enlightenment

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Forest, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yeeeggghh... I would find it very hard to trust anything he wrote given that I know now about how bad his judgment is. Every time I flipped a page over, I would think about how he moved his entire life from La Jolla, where he originally settled, to Yelm, Wa, just so he could be closer to this obvious scam. Then he was in it for 17 years. I'd rather listen to someone who actually knew the science. This guy is just a chiropractor who finished his education at age 22 or 23 and has no business talking about physics or neuroscience.

    Yeeeggghh... It sends shivers down my spine. But to each their own.

    You're certainly not alone in being interested, though. With seminars costing $600 per seat and being heavily promoted, he must be making huge amounts of money. The following shows the relative proportion of people searching for John Sarno and Joe Dispenza over time. The red line is Dr. Sarno and the blue line is "Dr." Dispenza. The rewards to good solid science aren't always as great as the rewards to making things up.

    Here's what some of the ex-cult members have to say about his new business model. These people knew him back when he was an instructor at the cult and before he struck out on his own.


    The original thread is here:

    Here are the two links that David provided in his thread:
    Encyclopedia of American Loons: #627: Joseph "Joe" Dispenza
    http://americanloons.blogspot.co.nz/201 ... penza.html
    Ten percent of brain myth - Wikipedia
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
    Simplicity likes this.
  2. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    I am SO glad I didn't by Myss' book. And Forest, that American Loons site had me howling. Good to bring some levity to a topic that has had me spitting mad.
    mike2014 and Forest like this.
  3. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I just donated my copy of Dispenza's You Are the Placebo and his two CDs to the free book box at the Friends of the Belmont Library. Perhaps someone can now use this wisdom for free without supporting Dr Joe's lifestyle? At least they no long grace my personal library's shelves.
    mike2014 likes this.
  4. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Great idea, Bruce. I'm going to do the same.
  5. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes, Mike, all Dr Joe seems to be doing is to repeat the mantra, "Enter into the quanta space," over and over again as if that's all it takes to make it true. ISTDP, CBT, and EFT all seem to be using a specific methodology to achieve specific results. Whether those modalities are effective or not is another matter, but at least they do have an implicit psychological methodology. But what in the heck is Dr Joe doing except trying to get you to buy his books and tapes and attend his seminars? Has anyone with Parkinson's or ALS ever been cured by shelling out some big bucks and attending one of Dr Joe's workshops or retreats? I'd like to see some peer-reviewed case studies, but I rather doubt such studies exist.
    plum and North Star like this.
  6. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Oh, goodness, I had been hoping that he had put that Ramtha-esque baloney behind him. The only thing that he helps by saying "quanta" over and over is his own brokerage account. Pretty soon he'll be living in his own 12,000 square foot house as well.
    North Star likes this.
  7. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Perhaps "Quanta Space" will be the name of his retreat center. Come one, come all, only $1,000 admission. Maybe I should set up a company - North Star of the Intergalactic Quantum Healing Space.

    I don't know what the hell that means but apparently knowledge isn't important when there's money to be made. Then I could be like Bugs Bunny, frolicking about about declaring, "I'm rich! I'm rich! I'm comfortably well off!"
    Forest and BruceMC like this.
  8. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    Forest, this is a great and very important thread. I have mentioned elsewhere how I lost a friend to a cult and a couple of years ago I had to completely sever all ties because my bullshit meter could take no more. Doubtless he continues to pour thousands of pounds into the pot while feeling very special and holier than thou. More amusing was another friend who followed a guru who claimed the world would become the land of milk and honey if men learned to soothe their "angry penis". He lent me a tape (it was that long ago) of this idiot pontificating and I laughed until I cried.

    On a serious note though it is quite clear that people in their droves desperately hunger for something *meaningful* and I'm sure we all empathise with this in a world where marriages, families and communities routinely fall apart, where nature is decimated, where cultures are trinketised and where porn and hook ups have replaced love and intimacy as the norm.

    How many of us have experienced the heartache of betrayal? Or the sense of emptiness where belonging should reside? Despite our sophistication we are lost and I guess from such a vulnerable place it is easy to be seduced. 'Twas ever thus.

    Without falling into a hopelessly romantic bucolic fantasy I find nature fulfills many of our modern needs. She takes us out of ourselves, she is big enough to hold us safe, always and ever there and manifested in every kind of majesty. For me Nature is the sacred and feeds the soul in a way nothing else can. Our native landscapes are our roots and nourish us deeply when we go to them. There's such solace in my Celtic land, this place I call home. So many seekers lost in the seeking and not realising they are already there.
    North Star, Forest and mike2014 like this.
  9. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Beautifully written, Plum, thanks.

    My fiancee and I are in a small rental cabin in a rural, right now. We're both a bit lazy (especially her! :) ), and are spoiled by the dishwasher when we are at home. I try to remind us that doing the dishes by hand is part of the experience of slowing down when camping. (It comes more naturally to me because I grew up in this area.)

    It does feel like a more natural, healthy way of living, and I like the people.

    It seems like, more and more, people are just looking for meaning and self-esteem. It feels that the source of that has to be a courageous and honest search for truth and integrity. By falling for "Ramtha"'s unproven promises of wisdom for money, I think that Dispenza showed that he lacked the courage to accept the real world, as imperfect as it is. To me, the only real long term happiness comes when one has the courage to look the truth in the eye, no matter what that truth is.

    Because no matter what that truth is, it probably isn't that bad. There will certainly be some genuine beauty to find in it as well.

    ... and when you're done with all of that seriousness, you can always eat some tasty food and enjoy all of the wonder that this life (real life) has to offer.
    North Star, plum and mike2014 like this.
  10. MWsunin12

    MWsunin12 Beloved Grand Eagle

    This only makes me respect Dr. Sarno more. He didn't up-sell anything. He only wrote more information on a broader spectrum than only back pain. So much suffering going on and so many sharks ready to take advantage of desperate people. The answer isn't out there through another person…and bless Dr. Sarno for stating that over and over. It's within.
    plum and Forest like this.
  11. truthseeker

    truthseeker Newcomer

    After learning all of this, it's hard to take Dispenza seriously

    Dr Dispenza has a lot of videos on You Tube. Why not view one/some of them and judge him not in the light of his past but his present. I am sure that he also learned something good from his association with Ramtha. I've read his book "breaking the habit of being yourself" and in my opinion, it is good. And I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this way.
  12. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    True, "Dr" Dispenza sounds good . . . but that's where I think it all ends.
    mike2014 likes this.
  13. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    I came across his book You are the PLacebo at a local bookshop. They had it in their bestsellers shelf, and like a fool I fell for the placement and bought it. It looked 'trustworthy' sitting on that rack, above all the other books!

    I knew nothing of the man, but read the book in a few sittings, desperate for relief from my pain. I even bought the extra meditation audio. (I have no idea why it cost extra). This was what first made me feel very sceptical...the meditation was so over the top....from the way he said things to the most ridiculous tacky music. I have meditated a lot, but I could not get into this at all!

    Then I did some reading about the guy, and started to uncover all this stuff. I found out about ramtha and ended up in a deep hole of internet madness, as I tend to do! It was shocking.

    Some people still seem to defend the guy, but I cannot trust a guy who fell for that crazy woman for 17 years. He is obviously out to make money. I am sure people are getting relief, connection, insight etc. from him and his books and workshops, but as his book says, its just a placebo effect and it will wear off I am sure.

    Sarno really seems like a saint when compared to people like Joe Dispenza.
    mike2014 and BruceMC like this.
  14. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    You have to wonder, rododelfly, whether the title of "Dr" Dispenza's book is sort of sarcastic? Sure, if you read his book and do what he says and listen to his meditation DVDs you might get some relief because you are indeed "The Placebo"! But healing has gone on like that for thousands of years, hasn't it?
  15. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Yeah, mostly a placebo effect will wear off after time won't it? In a sense he goes in to things that aren't far from what Steve O talks about in his books, such a visualising yourself being well etc. But the way Dispenza does it is based on pseudo science rather than staying in the realms of the mind and its workings which will always be hugely mysterious.

    I think if someone doesnt get annoyed with Dispenzas meditations like me, then of course sitting still for an hour and focussing on something will be beneficial.
    EileenS likes this.
  16. EileenS

    EileenS Well known member

    LOL Robodelfy; after buying and reading most of 'You are the Placebo' I bought his meditation. It was only $4.99 to download thank goodness as it's the worst meditation I've heard. His voice is annoying and then you have to think up something to overcome and wrestled it away!

    I also read most of his book 'Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself' (A free download). I seem to get bored with his books when I reach a certain part. In spite of the posts about him here, I would like to say 'Don't throw the baby out with the bath water'. He says a lot of things in his books that is the same as what real Neuroscientists and psychiatrists have written about (minus the quantum stuff) and it's written in an easy to read and entertaining way. Changing the wiring in the brain is what we are doing when we follow what Dr Sarno teaches. And there is even a branch of immunology called Psychoneuroimmunology; ' is the study of the interaction between psychological processes and the nervous and immune systems of the human body.'

    I am known as a very skeptical person, which is fortunate for me as I didn't believe my doctor when she told me I would have to live with the ibs and body pain I had developed. My skeptical brain needed answers as to why Dr Sarno's teachings work, which lead me to finding Joe D's books and many others. Dr Norman Doidge's books are good reading and he is a well respected Canadian psychiatrist. Robodelfy, Dr Doidge mentions in one of his books that placebo effect does usually wear off quickly.

    My skeptical mind has a hard time when writers talk about quantum physics. They aren't quantum physicists , but neither am I and there is more to this world than what we currently know so I had to learn to just ignore that part in various books. I have very strong 'spidy sense' compared to many other people, which can be a blessing as well as a curse and the reason I'm sure it has taken over 3 years to get rid of pain and IBS, but I will never throw lots of money into Dispenza's work or anyone else's.
    Ellen likes this.
  17. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Yes I agree...but still after knowing about Joe Dispenza a little more, its impossible for me to read anything he writes now. Of course if his whole book was complete mad ramblings that werent even remotely based in science or reality, then he would be written off as a quack instantly. But it's the fact that he is fairly convincing to a point,thats even more worrying, as I am certain his motivations are to do with money and ego.
  18. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    If you are skeptical, you are definitely not alone. I probably know more about quantum in that my mentor when I earned my masters in math was a probabilist and had me spend a lot of time working with differential equations applied to probability measures. This is relevant to quantum because quantum is basically Schroedinger's equation, which, if I remember correctly, is a differential equation over the complex numbers that you take the norm of in order to get a probability measure. (I also have an affinity for physics, having been a semifinalist for the US physics team in the 90s and completed a full upper division (tensor-theoretic) course on General Relativity taught by this guy.)

    The thing with quantum is that, just like regular physics, it is a physical model, meaning that it describes the motion of various different physical entities over time (the complex numbers representing probabilities that I described above). More specifically, the Schroedinger equation is just about how different particles relate to one another and their environment as time passes. There is no concept of "consciousness" in the equation. It's just dead particles. And while some people might consult with their guru and decide that the particles are alive and that they represent consciousness (or some other unsubstantiated idea), they could just as easily have applied a wide range of other interpretations. While there are various interpretations out there, most scientists can't be bothered with them and just want to get to doing the actual science.

    What is dangerous is when someone comes along with some sort of agenda and starts saying that they have special insights into quantum and that it gives them certain powers of mind control. That's just not in the actual theory.

    In the end, to a scientist, a field like quantum is primarily a collection of equations (like the Schroedinger equation), along with techniques to manipulate those equations and experiments to back them up. We judge fellow scientists on their ability to manipulate those equations in ways that allow us to make predictions or see things that we couldn't see before. If someone can't manipulate a core equation such as the Schroedinger equation but still calls themselves a quantum physicist, then in my mind and I'm sure in the mind of most quantum physicists, that makes them a fraud. I've done a lot of research about Dispenza and I've seen him talk a lot about quantum, but I've really never seen him say or write anything that would indicate that he can handle the actual math.

    Surprisingly enough, I actually agree with this. Neuroscience and clinical research show us that brains are remarkably adaptable and if we do something enough it becomes second nature. I suspect that with Neuroscience, he is articulating some ideas that many real neuroscientists may also believe. In that sense, if one were to read a book by him, I would say that "Evolve Your Brain" is probably the best. With that said, I also do agree with @robodelfy that it is hard to take him as a credible source after everything else we know about him (quantum, Ramtha, etc.)
  19. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Where does Alfred North Whitehead stand in all of this, Forest?

    https://www.amazon.com/Science-Modern-World-Alfred-Whitehead/dp/0684836394 (Amazon.com: Science and the Modern World (9780684836393): Alfred North Whitehead: Books)

    I dimly remember that Whitehead has quite a lot to say about multiple simultaneous realities implicit in Planck's quantum mechanics. Whitehead connects quantum mechanics with modern art like Picasso and the analytical cubists, incidentally. I would think that "Dr" Joe stumbled on his insights about quanta via Whitehead, who was quite popular in 'mystical' circles in the 1960s and 1970s, certainly among those folks up in Washington State that hatched Ramtha and channeling avatars etc. etc. I realize of course that Whitehead is a pretty serious and respectable figure in math (head of the math department at Harvard I seem to recall). Bet Dispenza collided with quantum mechanics in those same circles, rather than through any formal training in mathematics.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  20. EileenS

    EileenS Well known member

    Forest, I enjoyed your post immensely. Made me laugh. With a masters in math, you're probably constantly analyzing things more than me. I'm just an analytical person who's always questioning things. I was a natural in my career as a software product developer where some people thought Analytical was my middle name. Last summer my husband, who is a mechanical/nuclear engineer (math and newtonian physics), would laugh at my comments and say I made his brain hurt with my questions about quantum physics. I wish I knew more about the subject, but I must be content knowing only that it's particles that eventually display as a wave pattern and there is no evidence to say it has anything to do with our consciousness. (Know how to kill the conversation at a party? Bring up quantum physics.)

    Unfortunately, there are many people out there with big followers that use quantum physics as the reason for their methods to work. Quantum physics is a big unknown to almost everybody and many people aren't wired to always question what they hear and read. Hence, these people, like Joe D, grab on to q.p. as an explanation to explain things because it sounds good and mysterious. It's very unfortunate that these people also prey on vulnerable people in great pain to make their living. I have been there, but because I have a strong 'spidy sense' and I'm thrifty, I have tried to confine my spending to a few books that the library doesn't carry.
    Re: Joe D.; I read a post this morning from someone who went to one of his seminars. His description of the seminar was confirmation of what I picked up from reading Joe's body language in his free promo videos. His seminar was very controlled and a re-hash of what any of his books say. Many desperate people were there looking for instant relief from their suffering. There was no interaction with Joe himself and lots of promotion of upcoming seminars, etc.

    My comment about,"there is more to this world than what we currently know" is not in support of what Joe D or anyone else is using quantum physics to explain things. It is merely to acknowledge that we don't know yet everything there is to know and that's so wonderful for each new generation of researcher.

    Question/comment for you Forest: On this site, I can't find the reason 'why' Dr Sarno's method works. There is a section on medical evidence, but my brain needs to know why, which is why I had to go searching somewhere else. I have discovered that there are lots of real doctors and researchers that do give explanations as to why it works, but I had to do my own researching journey. Is the information buried somewhere on this site? Thanks.

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