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I need a concise but full explanation of TMS for my therapist!

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by thecomputer, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member


    I am still struggling with my throat pain, and I'm going to start seeing my old therapist again. He knows nothing about TMS, but would be open to the idea, and is a great therapist.

    He is also incredibly busy and I can't really ask him to read a whole book on TMS. I was hoping before this Thursday to send him an email with as brief a description as possible, so he knows what we are working with.

    I realised when trying that I am not yet able to sum it all up well enough, and someone on here may be much more capable! Obviously looking at it from an angle that will help him to work with me in the right way.

    Would anyone be able to help me with this? I'd really appreciate it. maybe it would be useful for others as well when they want to explain it in a brief manner. We could work together to perfect a little blurb!
  2. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    Cap'n Spanky likes this.
  3. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Why reinvent the wheel, there are many TMS therapists listed at this site. If you can't see one in person, it's been found that phone and skype sessions are as effective. Pardon my skepticism, but if he were such a "great therapist" he should know about psychosomatic/TMS and how to treat it, it's so fundamental to psychotherapy starting with Freud and discussed by all who came after him. I am continually shocked by the so called "therapists" I mention Dr. Sarno to who have NEVER heard of him AND show NO interest.

    Your therapist is probably charging you $150 an hour and up, depending what the traffic will bear, so I don't think it's too much for him/her to read a book so fundamental to their profession.

    I was in the hot-tub with a tennis acquaintance a few days ago who has been suffering from numerous "injuries" in the last few years and can no longer play--this is a guy who's life was tennis! He was a counselor and has a doctorate in psych. I mentioned Sarno to him and he said, oh yah, I recall studying about him in school--I guess it was just another chapter in the curriculum.

    Steven Ozanich has written four great TMS books, one a short tome about the Ten Fundamentals which should inform your therapist of the vitals. SteveO was trying to give it away for free over the internet but had to charge $2 to Kindle it. You may be able to find it there.


    Steven Ray Ozanich
    45 customer reviews
    Kindle $2.99
    1 New from $5.99

    Sorry for this rant but I'm continually shocked by the inability and the disdain of the psych-pros to wrap their heads around TMS/psychosomatic medicine that is so fundamental to the treatment of chronic pain that is so common to the human condition--Walgreens should have TMS books on every aisle and the docs offices should have them scattered about in the waiting rooms. I took one of the Good Doctor's books on my first visit to my new doctor--who's a pretty good allopath--and he gave me a look of bemused disdain and handed it back to me. TMS theory is very simple--acceptance and belief in it by the sub-conscious may be the hard part.

    If you're therapist isn't helping, get a TMS savvy one you can find here. Give your current one a copy of a TMS book, you can get them used on Amazon for 1 cent + $2.99 shipping. Let us know how your appointment(s) goes?

    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  4. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Hi Tennis Tom

    I think you are working yourself up a bit there, and making assumptions!!

    I have been in therapy on and off for 15 years, and been to countless therapists in many traditions. This man (my counsellor) is truly one of the most kind, generous, insightful and wise human beings I have met. He has been a counsellor and taught counselling at University for 30 years, so obviously he knows about psychosomatic problems, and is very experienced in all realms of human suffering. He runs a charity to give free counselling to anyone who needs it, which is incredibly rare, and struggles to get by so he can make this available to people, like me! I saw him every week for years and paid nothing, and i really think he saved my life.

    TMS is fairly specific, and like anything in life, once you know about it, it's hard to understand how others dont, but it is very much a niche.

    My counsellor knows me better than anyone, and I daren't start from the beginning again with someone new. I'm not sure if anyone can answer this, but how do you become a TMS counsellor? Do you need to have trained as a counsellor or psychotherapist first? I am just a little dubious nowadays with many therapists in certain modalities, such as NLP, EFT etc. who seem to be increasingly young and often only trained for a few weeks or less! I think its great they want to help people, but I do believe to be a good therapist takes a lot of training, practise, life experience and wisdom. But often I actually think it comes down to some inborn talent or sensitivity which some have and some don't. It's shocking to think of some of the 'professional' therapists I have seen!!

    I don't expect my counsellor to embrace TMS just because I tell him about it, especially when i am still struggling so much! As with most people, you need to experience it to believe it. So I just want to put it out there for him, but not get evangelical about it!

    Thanks guys :)
  5. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is the internet, that's what we do. Please ignore my post to you, sorry I even bothered and wasted my time.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  6. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    True, this is the internet! I understand your concerns, and of course it would be nicer if Sarnos findings were more widespread :)
    Tennis Tom likes this.
  7. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Tennis Tom is telling you the truth robodelfy. I understand your therapist is a good man and he helped you when you needed the help but that won't qualify him here. Just reading a book won't get him to understand tms enough to teach you how to heal, see.
    Some here, like Tom, over a dozen years at least in study of most all the Tms books and still going.
    We are just trying to stear you right my friend, this is for you.
    Tennis Tom likes this.
  8. sam908

    sam908 Peer Supporter

    Has your therapist ever heard of Arnold Hutschnecker, MD? Any therapist worthy of the name should at least be familiar with Dr. H's "The Will to Live," which covers much of the same ground as Dr. Sarno's work.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  9. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Hi Herbie

    I really don't like getting into trying to explain myself on internet forums, as of course we dont know each other or the people in each others lives, yet assumptions and advice still fly around fairly loosely! But I feel the need to answer...

    Firstly I appreciate you guys trying to help, I do :) I'm not sure what part of what Tom said was speaking the truth, possibly you are talking about many therapists rejecting TMS, which I would agree with, and his desire to help which I appreciate. But otherwise, there were numerous assumptions about my 'great therapist' knowing nothing about psychosomatic disorders and charging $150 an hour etc. None of this being remotely true.

    My therapist is not just a good man who helped me, but a gifted and experienced therapist in all respects. The fact he may not focus on psychosomatic pain disorders does not mean he is not qualified to help. Most therapists will not be dealing with people with chronic pain, but more emotional manifestations. I have read a lot of TMS books now, and the mostly all say very similar stuff at the core, the concept is not complicated even if it is hard to grasp. I read all of Sarno's book and still think healing back pain is the most concise and effective. Many people heal just from reading the book, proving that it can be enough to just integrate this relatively simple (but unusual) concept. I have to say I would much sooner want to work with a therapist with many years of experience, than a newly trained TMS therapist. Again, I have no idea what it takes to become a TMS therapist?

    I think it's not useful for TMS in general to become a closed loop, only giving credit to 'TMS therapists' and people 'in the know', as I am sure almost all good therapists in any tradition would not be too stretched to embrace the idea of emotionally induced chronic pain. We are not talking about physical therapists or doctors here. Surely trying to bring these ideas to our doctors and therapists and friends in a gentle and open way will only help spread the message. Rather than discounting any more conventional therapists....who are the most likely people to already be open to psychosomatic disordes and TMS.

    Everything I have read in the books, on forums, in the programs and listening to some of the TMS therapists recorded sessions...it isnt groundbreaking therapy, and that is no bad thing. It doesnt need to be. I many ways, looking at past events, current stressors and personalities traits is the standard for many types of therapy. With a TMS therapist maybe the focus is more on pain alleviation, but if we truly accept that the body and mind are one, then it doesnt matter, as long as we are getting to understand what is causing us pain (emotional or physical).

    Anyway, I'm off on a bit of a rant now, so I will stop! It's a big subject
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  10. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    When I wrote what I wrote, I knew NOTHING about you, you did not fill out your bio which would be helpful. I knew nothing about your relationship with your therapist--but you've been going to him for 15 years and you still have chronic pain. You are making the assumptions about "TMS therapists", that they are young and freshly minted. The one I saw for about six sessions was Don Dubin, now deceased, and he was in his 60's or 70's. He told me that he never had to do more then a dozen sessions with anyone to get the TMS message across--so even a freshly minted therapist can do the TMS trick.

    You asked for a short concise explanation to hand to your therapist and I gave you what you asked for, Steve O's little"Ten Book"--are you going to give it to your therapist? Not to toot my own horn, but Dr. Don Dubin told me that I knew as much about TMS as anyone one he had talked to, so maybe my words to you are of some value. By now with all the reading about TMS you have done, YOU should be able to explain it to your therapist concisely. If I made assumptions about you and your therapist it was due to the lack of info to go on. It would be helpful if you would fill out your BIO. A TMS physician will do an extensive interview one, two or three hours, even half a day as a poster here has mentioned, to determine if the history of the patient discloses a TMS personality.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  11. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    I appreciate you suggesting Steve o's book, which I have and will give to my therapist.

    I'm really not trying to be confrontational when I say any of what I say, but when typing its hard to get that across and make a point! As you said, you know nothing about me, and therefore it would have been nice to just offer what had been asked for, rather than questioning my decisions or giving advice. I know from personal experience (and messing up over and over with my girlfriend!) that giving advice in situations like these isnt often helpful, and support is what is needed. I've been tearing my hair out for a year now trying to know whats going on with my throat and voice, and of course have been riddled with doubts about everything. Sometimes it's nice just to let people do what they need to, without adding doubt, confusion and more opinions to the mix. I'm sorry, but that is how yours and Herbies advice came across, as if I was doing the wrong thing, and he was not qualified or would not be capable etc.

    I hope you can appreciate where I'm coming from, and as I said I appreciate you guys trying to help, but just want to be honest and say that for this situation, it wasnt helpful.
    EileenS likes this.
  12. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is the TMS Wiki, if you have TMS, as long as you doubt it, your sub-c will be doing its job giving you physical symptoms as a distraction. Belief in the validity of the Good Doctors's theory is necessary for the TMS cure to work--it's in ALL the books.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  13. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    The advice you get here robodelfy will lead you to the cure. That's why Dr. Sarno says knowledge is the cure.
    If you feel upset at Tom or me, then that feeling, that thought that we wanted to be mean or angry at you. That was your emotional reaction. If we can get you to react then we know where your TMS is located. Not that I'm trying to anger you my friend, I want to help by leading.
    But we have to acknowledge the anger, the hurt, the feelings of someone not understanding us or even barking at us.
    We have to know those emotional reactions are what our tms is, and then learn to feel those emotions of anger without acting in anger, see.
    When I first started learning over at the TMS help board I thought everyone was belittling me. Some asked why did I write in all bold letters, others said just stop being afraid and go live.
    I got mad brother, but I learned something special. My ego, my reactions was telling me to let them have it, but what then? I learned to control those reactions and my pain slowly over months and months started to get better.
    I couldn't learn and grow being angry at my teachers in school and i couldnt learn, grow and heal being angry at them their.
    It was only a short time and I became a member here at tms wiki.
    I noticed most all here were nicer but i needed those that made me realize my ego was getting hurt a lot, I learned a lesson their.
    Hope you understand.
    Bless you
    Tennis Tom likes this.
  14. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Thanks for your replies guys. As I said before, I was not furiously typing at the keyboard with steam coming out of my ears when replying to this thread! It's so hard with only typed words to convey the right tone if there is any difference of opinions. Face to face, these problems are much easier to navigate and happen much less frequently. So no hard feelings.

    That said I still feel entitled to my views and the validity of my feelings, regardless of who is more experienced/knowledgable about TMS. My main point regarding that was that sometimes support is more useful than advice....actually most of the time, and I feel in this case, being sceptical or even negative about my plans, or the person I wanted to see, was not helpful. I hope that makes some sense.

    I won't lie, of course I noticed a reaction in me, but I acknowledged that I may likely get defensive if I feel misunderstood, and then tried to respond in a balanced way. I do appreciate you guys trying to help as I;ve said a few times now.

    And tom, I really understand that you need full belief in the diagnosis to cure yourself. But it's not as easy as making a decision to do so. I have an unusual problem, and I still have questions and doubts, which may well be holding me back. I'm aware of that, but its a gradual process and I'm working with it as best I can :)

    Maybe we should put this thread to rest soon :)
  15. sam908

    sam908 Peer Supporter

    Yes, it should be put to rest.

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