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WOW! is this painful

Jesse MacKinnon

Jesse MacKinnon

Peer Supporter
woke up this morning relatively OK in the back department but my front hurts like hell. Is this just TMS? or is my liver angry at the amount of pain pills I've been taking. Yesterday: 3 morphine time release, 6 vicodin spread out from middle of the night to 7 PM last evening. Now I'm scared- not taking pain pills at all so far today. Really painful under my ribs in the front but back is so-so. Anyone else experience any thing like this weirdness?
 
Hi Jesse,

Sorry you aren't feeling well today. I haven't taken those kind of meds except when I was in the hospital (for something non-TMS related) and I was so out of it I have no idea what I was taking :)

Could be TMS, but it sounds like you might be concerned that you're having a reaction to the pain medication?--can you call your doctor and check in?

Hope you feel better soon.

Veronica
 
Jesse MacKinnon said:
woke up this morning relatively OK in the back department but my front hurts like hell. Is this just TMS? or is my liver angry at the amount of pain pills I've been taking. Yesterday: 3 morphine time release, 6 vicodin spread out from middle of the night to 7 PM last evening. Now I'm scared- not taking pain pills at all so far today. Really painful under my ribs in the front but back is so-so. Anyone else experience any thing like this weirdness?
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Hi Jesse.....so sorry to hear youre in such bad pain.....especially after you had felt so good getting thru the programme and feeling you were firmly on track....This kind of thing often happens to me...its like im scared to say Im ok because the next day i bomb....i think our mind plays a huge part in this..especially because youre saying you are scared. We scare ourselves really. When Im scared the pain ramps up. I imagine you feel a bit down as well. Ive taken every painkiller known and my insides seem intact...if i take too many of the opiates I can feel very nervous and shaky the next day and like you I back off totally afraid ive overdone it.
Im just telling you this to let you know ive had similar experiences....im no expert with the tms stuff. Unlearn your pain
by Dr Schubiner arrived this morning ....ive flicked through and get a feeling of confidence and calmness from him.
Going to try his meditation cd tonight. You'll get thru this...soon I hope.
BB
 
Jesse:

Stop the fear about the pain meds. I'm sure you're fine. It's the tylenol in Vicodin that screws up your liver. And unless you're taking 5/500's - 16 times a day, for years on end: no worries. I've been on pain meds for years, and my liver panels are always fine.

I've been having horrible neck and arm pain since finishing the program. I'm inclined to think that is what's going on more than your liver is about to burst. It's a GOOD sign the pain is moving around although I'm not loving this either. Slow it down and try not to worry. I'm just trying to ignore all the pain I'm in today (not working yet) and just get on with things. Try the same and let us know how it goes.

BG
 
Hi Jesse,
Ouch, that sounds really tough. I'm sorry you're going through all of that. I think it's important that if you have any concerns about medications, you bring them up with your doctor, but I have to say, it sounds an awful lot like it is just TMS up to its tricks to me. If pain moves, I always take that to be a sign of TMS.

I know that this is super hard and I think you should always feel free to say what you need to say, but bear in mind that focusing on our symptoms can be counterproductive and can feed the TMS. If I remember correctly, Dr. Sarno did not allow his patients to talk about their symptoms during his lectures, because he felt it reinforce thinking structurally.

You probably remember this, but repetition can really help when you are already struggling with so much pain and anxiety. On Day 8 of the program actually some wiki members responded to the question, "Is keeping track of your pain intensity a good idea or is it focusing on your symptoms too much" They said,
MatthewNJ: “That is a double edged sword. You need to know it is there and recognize it as a message, but I wouldn't "keep track". I think that would cause you to focus on it too much.”

marshacohen: "If you focus on the pain you feed it.. This makes recovery impossible. "

2Scoops: “Don't focus on the pain or the symptoms. If you do, then it will keep you defeated. You will get caught in the fear cycle, and your body will just create more tension and fear and thus more symptoms. Recovery is different for everyone, and I believe it's also matters how long you have had the symptoms and had the negative thought patterns.”

Penny4Them: “In a word ... NO! Absolutely ignore symptoms, but when you have them, let them serve as the canary in the coalmine to tell you that something is out of alignment with your highest and best interest. i.e. May be when you have dinner with (SOMEONE) your pain body kicks in with a migraine. Instead of focusing on the sx, realize that it's probably the dynamic b/t you and (SOMEONE) that's the issue. Are you emotionally honest with yourself about your relationship? Do you cover your feeling about stuff he/she says/does when you are together? These are tough questions sometimes, but when pain rears up, question yourself and how you feel when you are together. Maybe it's not a healthy relationship as it currently stands?”
Click to expand...

Just some thoughts to bear in mind...
 
Forest said:
I know that this is super hard and I think you should always feel free to say what you need to say, but bear in mind that focusing on our symptoms can be counterproductive and can feed the TMS.
Click to expand...

I don't have TMS, so feel free to take my thoughts on this with a grain of salt... or two ;) But, when I was in my early twenties I had arthroscopic knee surgery. I was prescribed percoset for the pain. Because it knocked me out I didn't take the full dosage, and I could get by during the day just taking half a pill, if any, but at night when it was just me, the bed, and the darkness, the pain got to me and I would take a full pill, and then wake up at 4 AM from the pain and take another. I didn't need the percoset during the day because I was busy doing other things - mostly reading, doing some work, watching TV, etc. I had distractions during the day! But at night there wasn't anything to take my mind off the pain, so it increased in a way and I needed the painkiller.

Of course, when you're trying not to think about something you end up thinking about it more :confused: But perhaps you can find activities to take your mind off your pain? Distract yourself from your distraction (the pain)?
 
Hey Jesse - I think I've felt your pain! A few years ago I had several episodes of stabbing pain under my rib cage - as in bent-over double stabbing pain, wondering briefly if it could be a heart attack, although I knew it was too low for that, and there were no other indications. But good lord, it HURT! Resolved to a burning ache, and lots of tenderness between my ribs. Asked the consulting nurse, who said it might be a syndrome (she probably said "condition" but watch where we go with this) called costochondritis. Indeed, the symptoms seemed to be right on. Turns out this is a well-known syndrome, easy to describe and easy to treat with NSAIDS and heat, BUT.... no one knows what causes it, which leads some health practitioners to believe from observations of people who have it, that - ta da - it's caused by stress.

Pain that moves around is the good news. I still remember cracking up the day that Beach Girl posted how happy she was when she woke up with neck pain that had appeared in place of her back pain!

You've been wondering where to go next - you might be interested in this discussion that dabatross started:
http://tmswiki.org/forum/threads/br...ing-part-of-the-tms-personality.111/#post-705
 
Hah! Saw the Doc yesterday as the pain under my ribs in front on the right side has become very intense. She says sounds like a gall stone. Going for a scan today. So probably not psychologically induced. What a relief.
 
Wow! I'm SO glad that you had it checked out, then. We won't know for sure until the test comes back, but it is so good to hear that you are getting professional medical care that you need.
 
Jesse,
I feel your pain as it were. As I have "been there done that". I am glad you are seeing your doctor about your current pain. That is good (necessary even) that you rule out the physical first. Please let us know what the doctor finds.

I note you say "..Saw the Doc... She says sounds like a gall stone....So probably not psychologically induced. What a relief".

I would ask yourself, why is this a relief? You need not share that, but I am betting you will get an answer to that!

I would like to share a few of things. First, check out my story, I think it will resonate with you. http://tmswiki.org/forum/members/matthewnj.28/ Second, you hear things like "Think psychologicsl, not Physical". Personally I prefer to think of my pain (well, any symptom)as a message. What is the message here. I don't focus on a symptom, I observe it, and wonder why. But just for a few minutes, otherwise it becomes an obsession and an endless loop, and boom, I am focused on theb symptom not finding the cause! And finally here are my concerns, opportunities, 2 cents on pain meds. I have taken significant pain meds in the past. Percocet to the tune ot (7) 10mg tabs a day replaced by a 75mgFentanyl patch after that. Very potent stuff. BUT, at the time (2008) I was in such pain (10 on a scale of 10 for months!) that I could not concentrate on the cause. And I was totally confident that the cause was NOT my hernaited disk but my stresses. So, my doctor gave me the pain medication, I doubled my visits with my counselor (Dr. Bob Evans) and found the cause and got rid of the pain. This time permanently! Dr. Evan's always said, and I follow this rule to this day, when you take the medication, every time you take a medication , say , out loud, "This medication is for the symptom, I am working on finding the cause".

Please don't take the impression that I think this is easy. It is not. I don't believe in quick fixes. As Dr. Evans says "It takes approximately one life time!" It is a journey that I have been on since 2003 and will be on for the rest of the time I reside in this body! i work on this every day.

Matthew
 
I found Matthew's post very helpful for me as I struggle with pain meds and working through all the stress too. Thank you,

BG
 
Hope you feel better soon, Jesse, and I'm glad you went to the doctor. Aren't gallbladder issues sometimes stress related too?
 
Thanx for all the feedback. Just walked in the door from an ultra sound at the hospital. I made the tech tell me what she saw(she was nice) Yep very large gall stone blocking one of the ducts. Kinda wedged in there. She also said it is common for people with this condition to experience upper back pain. You asked me why I said "What a relief". I think to find out a source of major pain is indeed physical and is fixed by a simple arthroscopic procedure- that's a reason to celebrate. Now I still experience pain in my back and I'm convinced the heart of that and maybe even the creation of the stone is psychological and I intend to "go deep" for the rest of my life. But this situation is serious and I must follow my doc's advice. If this thing is blocking access to my liver or pancreas it gets very serious real fast. Having said that, I understand there is a natural way to break this thing up involving lots of apple juice, apple cider vinegar, olive oil and epsom salts. Since it's unlikely they'll operate over this weekend I think I'll give it a try. Anyone out there had any experience with gall stones? Love to hear from you. I'll start a new thread with this info since this one is kinda old
 
MatthewNJ said: "I would ask yourself, why is this a relief?"
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Matthew, as he so often does, has hit the nail on the head, Jesse. This may be key to why you are still struggling. Don't give up, though. Read Matthew's story! Talk about someone who never gave up - he is a trouper and now an inspiration for many of us.

I'm glad you're here, Matthew! We've missed you!
 
Looks like I was posting at the same time Jesse was checking in - so okay! A gall stone is a gall stone, and it's gonna hurt! Makes sense it would cause referred back pain, too.

My grandmother had "gall bladder surgery" whatever that means (was it removed? I never asked, too late now) and no one else in the family has ever had problems with their gall bladders, so that certainly does beg the question (as Veronica mentioned): what causes gall stones to develop in the first place? That should make for some interesting research into possibly another TMS-equivalent, so please tell us what you find out about gall bladders and stress. It's related to liver function, too, right?

Good luck with the diet thing...
 
Thank you Jan! I appreciate the kudos. But I am just another guy out there with TMS willing to share what worked for me. :-)

Jesse,
My opinion would be to get that gall bladder or stone removed. That said, I would take the advise of your doc. My ex wife had them and my father. Both had their gall bladders removed with laproscopic surgery. They were in and out in one day! BUT ask questions! If they can not remove it laproscopically, it does require a larger incision and a longer hospital stay. I was a paramedic and brought a number of people to the hospital thinking they were having heart attacks and it was gall bladder. This can be VERY painful and can run the gamut of chest pain, solar plexus pain, back pain and shoulder pain ()and probably other pains. And it HURTS. Sooooo get rid of the physical and see what happens! Please keep us informed we would , love to hear about your journey.

P.S. For those of you interested, the Gall bladder stores bile created by the liver. When you eat, bile is released into the digestive system to help digest, particularly fats. So high fat meals may cause the Gall bladder to work harder and therefore act up more if there is a stone in there. The thing that hurts is when the stone blocks the flow of bile the Gall bladder spasms in an attempt to free up the blockage. Lastly, most people do fine with out a Gall bladder. Everything you never wanted to know about your Gall bladder!

Matthew
 
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