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Why do some people heal without TMS knowledge

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by dharn999, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. dharn999

    dharn999 Well known member

    this is something that's been bugging me for a bit.. I know that's Dr. Sarno has contributed a lot of surgery success to the placebo effect and I agree with its effect on the "herniated disc". But a couple months ago a coworker was lifting and moving things and out of no where had the lightning jolt in the back most of us have had.

    He could barely walk the that day and could barely get up and down from a chair the next couple. He said he crawled into bed a week later and was in tears from the pain. He went to the Dr. And he said it was a muscle issue and to take it easy and things will resolve.

    2 weeks later he is fine... the whole time he was dealing with this I sat and thought, he is having a bout with TMS. I know the guy just took on some new responsibilities and had several people on his case about a few things work related, and he is a control freak type, but the pain resolved

    The only thing I can think is that the pain can hit anyone (we all have stress and repressed emotions) but is it only us with Obsessive and do good personalities that Dr Sarno explains that will have continuous pain?

    I know this guy isn't as obsessive as myself. He has had people on his case about stuff and I truest think things do not bother him as they do myself. I deal with stress head on but definitely dwell on how people view me way more than my coworker. I can seriously lose sleep if I feel something I've said comes off wrong to someone, or if I feel it was taken wrong..

    Any thoughts
  2. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'd say, that quite often it boils down to acceptance and or, ones relationships with his or her Dr.

    An accurate diagnosis from a Dr is very important in that it can either instill a nocebo or placebo.

    In your friends case, he received an accurate diagnosis, accepted the diagnosis and healed. I think being diagnosed correctly and knowing with certainty prevents one from entering a constant state of fear and over thinking healing.

    You could also argue that although your friend has healed, it may only be temporary because he didn't address the underlying emotional issues. So it's more than likely he will experience symptom imperative.
    plum likes this.
  3. Lady Phoenix

    Lady Phoenix Peer Supporter

    Another possibility is that he does have a symptom imperative that you do not know about. He may have stomach issues, heartburn, insomnia, tinnitus, etc. I say this because I have had relief from pain and I realized how it looks to others who do not know about all my new symptoms.

    That being said, I know exactly what you are talking about. It's especially frustrating when you have told someone about TMS and they reject the idea and then appear to get well.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  4. Mark W

    Mark W Peer Supporter

    I think it can depend on the stressors in that person's life at the moment they have an "attack". One of my good friends would "throw his back out" a few times per year, and it would put him on the floor for 3-4 days at a time. He just accepted it as something that happens from time to time and he "heals" and is good to go. I told him about my own TMS journey and he wasn't too receptive. Later, in speaking with him about his back problem, it became apparent to me that it happened only when his family came to town to visit or he went to visit them. I pointed this out to him and I could see the flash of realization on his face. He is now a Sarno fan.

    Point being, some people's TMS just flares up in certain stressful situations and resolves once the stressor is gone.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  5. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    And playing Devil's Advocate, sometimes we just yank a muscle in the same way as we may stub our toe on a door jamb. It's exactly and only what it is and is nothing more than part of the rough and tumble of life.
    Dfw and mike2014 like this.
  6. dharn999

    dharn999 Well known member

    I do agree that he accepted the diagnosis of it being a muscle and this gave him relief. I think about how the drs I first saw couldn't give me an exact answer and I left thinking that I was doomed because they didn't have an answer... this leading down the rabbit hole of self diagnosis and google searches... then the fear set in etc etc

    But I do believe heavily that this guys personality is different from mine, he does strive to do well but it's usually for his own benefit and I know he doesn't care nearly all that much how others perceive him (at least from what I know of him)
    mike2014 likes this.
  7. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    I agree most people get wrapped up in seeking healing rather than 'allowing' healing. When we keep seeking, we are forever instilling new beliefs and feeding the fear monkey.

    Our personality and perception also plays a significant role in our well being, two people may experience the same trauma but react completely different.

    That said, most people look for trauma at the onset of TMS, but I believe TMS may also have a generational component, I.e it stems from conditioning of inherited trauma and, or personality.

    Those who suffer with TMS by definition, are generally those who are perfectionists, people pleasers etc. It seems that although your friend is perfectionists at heart, he sets appropriate boundaries, is kind and compassionate to himself. The latter being the qualities people with TMS struggle with.
  8. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry Well known member

    I know it totally flies in the face of Sarno's thesis but I've often wondered if TMS/stress illness/somatisation doesn't actually reside in the first instance of causality but rather is the process that fuels a fire and enables what should be an acute injury/illness to become chronic. As has been suggested above the personality types Sarno postulated as fitting in with his TMS theory apply here as well.
    plum likes this.
  9. dharn999

    dharn999 Well known member

    "]I agree most people get wrapped up in seeking healing rather than 'allowing' healing. When we keep seeking, we are forever instilling new beliefs and feeding the fear monkey.

    Man it's funny you said this and I
    So needed to hear this today.. I've been catching myself doing this (getting wrapped up seeking healing instead of allowing healing). The only difference is I'm constantly trying to find something TMS healing related

    I was good about 5 months ago and then the pain returned after over 2 years of little to no pain... and all I've been doing is seeking healing through TMS teachings,

    I seriously need to just l learn to heal...

    I feel I've done everything required but the pain continues so I know I'm doubting it somehow... and this doubt is feeding the fear monkey you mentioned
    mike2014 likes this.
  10. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    I have come to the realisation that sometimes less is more when try to heal. We can try and muster up as many combinations as we like, but if we scatter our belief it's less powerful. It's all or nothing.

    I often wonder how those who read a book heal quickly and others struggle. Do they hold a greater deal of faith, than those who are stuck in the acceptance / healing phase? It's certainly an interesting question.
    plum likes this.
  11. Freedom

    Freedom Peer Supporter

    This is a good question.

    It's hard for me to fully accept TMS as sometimes I wonder "but what if it's something I haven't properly diagnosed yet, or what if there really is a problem, it would be dangerous to think its in the mental" and that if I think its all TMS then what would have been a proper diagnosis will now not work. But on the other hand if you don't fully by into TMS it's not supposed to work quite right... so I am in a weird limbo.

    I wonder this all the time.
  12. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm sorry , but you are spending way too much effort diagnosing someone else - someone that you technically do not know well enough to be able to diagnose. Lady Phoenix is right on with her response - you really have no idea what is really going on with this co-worker.

    Look, by the time I discovered Dr Sarno in 2011, I realized I'd had various mild symptoms all my life . Whenever one of them caused me enough concern to go to the doctor, I would be told that there was nothing wrong other than stress, and the symptom would go away. Sound like your coworker?
    It wasn't until late 2010 that my symptoms started piling on, until I came to a crisis point in the summer of 2011, which is when I fortunately stumbled upon Dr. Sarno and turned my life around .

    In other words, you really can't define the TMS experience within a set of narrow parameters. Every single person experiences TMS differently, over a different period of time, and the recovery process for each individual is unique.

    At the risk of being harsh, I tend to believe that obsessing over details like this, along with intellectualizing about TMS in general, can be just another distraction, caused by a brain that doesn't want to do the emotional work. It's an ironic presentation of the TMS mechanism!
    plum and Mark W like this.
  13. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    And, I see from subsequent posts, dharn999, that you essentially came to the same conclusion ;)
  14. Pia

    Pia Peer Supporter

    When I was only 14, I suddenly experienced huge pain when I swallowed. I went to the doctor and he examined me carefully. Then he got very soft in his eyes, took my hand and told me, that he understood and agreed that I was in severe pain and afraid of what could be wrong with me. And then he said "I know this is strange, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. Within a week or two, the pain will go away". I cried! I was so afraid, but he was right! The pain disappeared, and for some years it would come back once or twice, and I would think of the doctor's words, and it went away.
    I was very young at that time, but got my first lesson in how the brain works. I think that's why I adapt pretty easily to TMS. I also have good experience with accepting pain, meditating etc. I got out of the wheel chair that way...
    That said, I'm sure that some people may actually have an acute injury in the back, which just heals... I think some people benefit from surgery. I'm convinced that most of my pain is due to previous injuries that I get because of a genetic collagen disorder - but because of my history of repression and the backgrounds for that my brain "just" uses these areas of my body to keep me busy from feeling and dealing with my feelings.
    I don't think everybody has TMS. Sometimes people get sick and then they get well.
  15. dharn999

    dharn999 Well known member

    You aren't being harsh, you are being accurate and honest.. I actually catch myself so often over analyzing all the TMS details and concepts not only of myself but others as well... the worst part about it all is I know that this is TMS because I've actually beat this before.

    but the second go around just has left me is a mess because I've sat and thought this out so much... I keep hitting paradoxes and contradictions (which are all schemes of TMS and my brain to distract me, I often refer to them as the" BIG WHAT IFS")

    im at a point where there isn't much else for me to learn about the condition, I just need to believe it again and live my life
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  16. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    And start talking back to your brain which thinks you need to be negative, always looking out for danger. This is your primitive brain trying to protect you. You need to convince it that you're perfectly safe and that you don't need these distractions!
  17. Lady Phoenix

    Lady Phoenix Peer Supporter

    "...always looking out for danger." That's exactly right, Jan. Thank you again. When I first wake up but it's too early too get up yet, this is when I worry. Until recently, I would inevitably start to imagine/feel pains, or itching, or wheezing or other weird things wrong with my body. Now I turn on the TV and watch a show or read. I'm not sure this is a good idea but at least I'm not so distracted by the physical. I wonder if others might do this too.
  18. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    It's what I used to do all the time - now I actively calm my brain and talk to myself, which also works in situations where I can't tune out with some kind of distraction.
    Lady Phoenix likes this.
  19. MrRage

    MrRage Peer Supporter

    In all likelihood because the brain saw an opportunity to use pain as a distraction from some feeling or impulse which resolved itself while the patient was resting & recuperating.

    Most of us TMSers are unconsciously perpetuating our pain because we are very focused on the pain and generally allow ourselves to panic when pain manifests. Only knowledge can calm our fears of pain.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  20. Lady Phoenix

    Lady Phoenix Peer Supporter

    When an ad comes on the TV about a drug and symptoms and side effects, I quickly turn it off or change channels because it makes me worry. I also don't want to give my inner self any ideas for new ailments!

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