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what's wrong with the TMS personality list?

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by learningmore, Dec 19, 2021.

  1. learningmore

    learningmore Peer Supporter

    Disclaimer: I'm codependent and have a narcissist mom, and feel like I have C-PTSD.

    Many of them apply to me.

    But don't those make people good people? Were everyone to be like this, wouldn't the world be a better place? If everyone put everyone else's needs first, it sounds like that would be awesome. Rather than everyone being a selfish piece of shit.

    I'm actually pretty tired of shitty people. No one ever gives a toss what anyone else thinks. "hey, can I dick over this person but benefit myself? IT'S AN EASY CHOICE."

    So what, then, is wrong with being a perfectionist, and a goodist, and all the other things?

    "When you hear a small thunderstorm do you assume that there will be a tornadoes?"

    Yes. It's called being ready. Alternatively you have those leaf-in-the-wind unreliable rotten people who don't give a fuck about anything. Those people ARE SO ANNOYING. They are the anti-maskers. They are the people who litter from their cars because "oh, it's just a wrapper, it doesn't matter." They are the douchebags who play their music too loud while living in an apartment and annoying everyone in surrounding units.

    So why do we NOT want to be TMS personality type? Every single person here probably makes the world a better place by their presence. Each person here is probably a polite human being who is a good neighbor. Everybody here is probably awesome and compassionate. What the fuck am I missing?

    Sorry for the language, I'm annoyed AF right now and really tired of hearing about how *bad* it is to be compassionate and actually concerned with humans.

    Literally the sole thing I can figure that makes being like this bad is that boundary pushing assholes will take advantage of you. AGAIN, THUS PROVING THE PROBLEM IS OTHER PEOPLE NOT BEING LIKE THIS, NOT US BEING LIKE THIS. Summarily, if EVERYBODY was a goodist, for example, the world would be awesome. Can you even imagine? So is the only reason to avoid being a goodist because the collective consciousness of the planet isn't set for it?
    BloodMoon and AnonymousNick like this.
  2. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Sarno never said there was anything wrong with those personality types, just that they allow TMS to exist.

    TMS exists because your subconscious HATES those tendencies and ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BE REASONED WITH. It's a child basically. And because it hates having to do those things, it tries to distract you with pain.
  3. learningmore

    learningmore Peer Supporter

    Why does our subconscious want us to be mean?
  4. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    It doesn't want us to be mean, it just doesn't want to have to deal with having to be nice and good all the time. Remember, it's a child - being nice and a people pleaser is hard work.
    BloodMoon and miffybunny like this.
  5. Benjiro

    Benjiro Peer Supporter

    I think it helps to be specific here. For example, people-pleasing is often done to avoid anxiety, not because people genuinely care. The more sincere/authentic people are, the less tension acts of “niceness” toward others are going to generate. We also cannot pour from an empty cup, so whenever we damage ourselves we damage others.

    Perfectionism, to my mind, is a denial of human nature. I think of it as a kind of arrogance. Or an abortive attempt to compensate for lack in other areas. I don’t see any virtue in perfectionism, which is very different than pursuing and being satisfied with excellence.

    I know legalism / low self-esteem are other common TMS personality types. None of the ones I mentioned here, to my mind, make the world a better place.

    Many people, like myself, whose personalities have evolved on the healing journey, can testify that that evolution made them better for society and others, not worse.
    gipfel65, Aimee88, westb and 2 others like this.
  6. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    Humans are meant to feel the whole range of emotions. Emotions need to be heard and felt. That's not the same thing as acting out on an emotion in an aggressive way or repressing it so that it becomes toxic to you. Emotions are safe and human. Unfortunately, there is a tendency in society to "judge" certain emotions as "bad" or "unacceptable". There's happy, healthy medium between being a people pleaser and a raging a - hole lol. One can be a good, caring, moral human but still set healthy boundaries and have self care. That was what Dr. Sarno and others in the field of TMS and psychology have described. Certain personality traits can make one vulnerable to the shadow side. In the case of "goodists" who put the needs of others always before their own needs or values, it can lead to emotional repression and "dis-ease"...a betrayal or rejection of the self in a sense. This can have devastating consequences to a person's life.
  7. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Great discussion!

    About the above quote, I'll add that we don't need to act out from our personality to genuinely love and care. Real, integrated caring is deeper than these TMS personality traits which we take on in order to be seen and loved. I'm agreeing with Benjiro here.

    Yes. These boundaries are what our TMS personalities don't know so much about.
  8. Baseball65

    Baseball65 Beloved Grand Eagle

    "No one is immoral...Only their neighbors are" -Steinbeck paraphrased.
    "Everybody lives just comfortably inside their own ethics...anybody outside is a criminal and anybody too far inside is uptight."

    I was fortunate enough to have a self imposed crisis I could not postpone or evade. It made me HAVE to look at resentments like the OP posted. What I found out about myself (and I assume we are all more or less similar) is that underneath my apparently 'moral' and 'ethical' thoughts about the world, was selfishness. Thus my opening quote. When I inspected myself closely I found that all of my gripe list was designed to "other-ize" people and justify my own actions...and anger, which is like a disease.

    Some first century carpenter spoke about this at length. "before you remove the mote in your brothers eye,...."
    When I say "what plank?" it is not unlike the conscious mind saying "what unconscious?"

    For the sake of TMS recovery, this might actually be counterproductive. However after my symptoms left (which did NOT require any big changes) and I had a reservoir of anger similar to the OP's, the only freedom I ever got from it was looking at my own shortcomings and becoming aware of them.

    Most people who are worried about what is 'out there' are really having issues "in here"...when I work on 'in here', out there no longer occupies too much attention and my former anger becomes a sort of sorrow for the people in error because they haven't awakened yet... compassion rather than anger. I'll even pick up the trash they dropped without resentment. The important part is inspecting my motivation.
  9. learningmore

    learningmore Peer Supporter

    Most people are unreliable and unconcerned about others. For this reason, I am hypervigiliant about not being crappy.

    The world, society cannot function if people only care about themselves.

    I feel like I love society as a whole even if I dislike most people (because they are crappy).

    The idea of having cameras everywhere seems like a good idea to me. This way, people could not break the law (or hurt others) and get away with it. Some people say this is an invasion or privacy. Small price to pay for the reduction of crime.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2022
  10. Cactusflower

    Cactusflower Well known member

    “Most people are unreliable and unconcerned about others”
    That’s a) a hefty amount of judgement since you most likely know only a small amount of people in this world
    b) super goodist judging. Goodism is not truly kind or thoughtful. It is super judgy and often resentful. Goodism is not kind it is polite, cold, intolerable, very black and white in thought and is based on your own selfish inner workings. It is actually truly the opposite of good and it protects us from really seeing how selfish our own mind is when we engage in it. Goodism makes us think others are wrong and we are right, it is a form of perfectionism. (See baseball65’s comment about a mote)...what you view as unconcerned about others is really your brain saying ‘I don’t think they care about ME’ - the 2 year old in your head tantruming about not being seen, heard, given what it needs.. but I myself have learned it was because I could not articulate what I need. My brain was saying my needs are selfish. They are NOT! I can now articulate my needs (I was able to list them, journal and think about them) and then ask others to help ME myself attain those needs but not expect them to fulfill those needs, just help when they can and if they chose to.
    It is a huge step, it takes time to change a mindset, to be free of such self limiting and confining mind structures. Once you begin to be more free in your mind you will be able you see what true kindness is, and begin to practice it if you wish; to yourself and to others. You will also feel less need to control things that are out of your control like how others behave or think, and be able to enjoy your own life more.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2022
  11. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Wow! You said it.

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