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What else is there - Seriously

@tgirl, sometimes the people who seem the strongest ask for the most reassurance, because they’re putting on the facade all day and need that support.

I had to ask myself WHY I felt so unstable, and as Plum pointed out, unsafe. Safety is a huge topic on this forum and I’m glad it’s popped back up. I hated the alcoholism of many adults around me growing up, I resented my siblings for having certain issues that dragged my parents down, I resented my mother for her nervous breakdown, I felt like a freak for not being straight or completely gay, I couldn’t stand disparity in my city and how quickly people seemed to lose everything, I despised how my parents and pediatrician just said I’d “grow out of it” when I asked for help with anxiety and depression, nobody taught me how to appropriately handle intense feelings and emotions, I was told to smile and never bother anybody, etc. Nothing felt safe, everything was stressful - I see now why I had mood swings and suicidal ideations. You need enjoyment in life!

Once you learn how to help support yourself (a goal anyone should have in therapy), life truly changes for the better.
 
Dorado said:
@tgirl, sometimes the people who seem the strongest ask for the most reassurance, because they’re putting on the facade all day and need that support.

I had to ask myself WHY I felt so unstable, and as Plum pointed out, unsafe. Safety is a huge topic on this forum and I’m glad it’s popped back up. I hated the alcoholism of many adults around me growing up, I resented my siblings for having certain issues that dragged my parents down, I resented my mother for her nervous breakdown, I felt like a freak for not being straight or completely gay, I couldn’t stand disparity in my city and how quickly people seemed to lose everything, etc. Nothing felt safe, everything was stressful - I see now why I had mood swings and suicidal ideations. You need enjoyment in life!

Once you learn how to help support yourself (a goal anyone should have in therapy), life truly changes for the better.
Click to expand...

I can relate to what you are saying Dorado. I was extremely anxious growing up, living with alcoholic parents, fearing they’d divorce and on and on. It takes a toll for sure. I don’t have reasons to feel unsafe now, but I guess it’s hardwired in me and I have to loosen that up.
 
Okay, I feel like I’ve answered all the questions I can. In the spirit of not engaging in thought loops or reassurance seeking, I’m going to step out. I’m always happy to answer new questions on topics that we haven’t previously discussed.

Just remember you’re not alone. When I was at Mayo Clinic having a nervous breakdown, the psychologist actually began my health profile in the patient portal by saying that I was “a very pleasant, bright 27-year-old dealing with a unique situation today...” Pleasant in the middle of a nervous breakdown. You’d never know if you met me on the street. Everyone has a story and you aren’t a failure. To live is to struggle, and you can always come back from struggles. And make sure you find time to enjoy some little things, too.
 
eskimoeskimo said:
Thank you @Dorado, for trying so hard to see me and work with me in this way. I appreciate that you understand the OCD aspect to this, as I feel it's central to my situation and perhaps not that well understood generally in the TMS community. Maybe not everyone with TMS is like this, but for me the daily reminders, evidence sheets, self-reassurance stuff dug the hole way way deeper for me. And from an OCD perspective this makes perfect sense. Maybe this has something to do with why I see these types of recommendations less and less, even here.

Of course, I want to ask the same questions again. And I want you to tell me that there's nothing wrong with my neck and that the pain can go away. But I know that these answers have never provided anything more than temporary relief in the past, and I recognize that you're not engaging with those questions for the best reasons.

Was there some point at which you eventually no longer felt the urge to ask these sorts of questions anymore? Ali Greymond always says that eventually the questions just kind of evaporate as you demonstrate to your brain that they're not important. This never happened to me and I want to understand why not. Did you become so involved in life that your brain moved on? Was there a moment, was it gradual? Did you have to get to a point that you were willing to live with pain before the brain let go?

Is there a chance that it would be possible to work with this therapist who helped you so much? Did this person help you just with the OCD, or were physical symptoms a part of it too?

Thanks again
Click to expand...

I remember that for 7 years, since my pain started to 2018 I was asking questions like 'why me?', 'why it still hurts?', 'is this my fault?' to my parents and especially my mom constantly(I mean in almost every time we talked, and for some of those years we lived together). After few years they where so tired they almost hated me. What helped me in this regard(OCD I would say) was work of John Kabat-Zinn but I know you are familiar with it. It did nothing with my pain, but it's a proof for me that at least OCD component is something you can recover from. What helped me break this horrific cycle were medition added to I think this book(sorry, I had polish edition and cover art is different, but I think it's this book):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindfulness-Health-practical-relieving-restoring/dp/074995924X
Every other meditation practice I tried in my life was a failure but this one made my mind free. I'm still in pain... but while before pain my life was 7/10, after pain it was 2/10, after this book it's 5/10. Not great, but not terrible I quess. Maybe it's worth a shot?
 
Dorado said:
Okay, I feel like I’ve answered all the questions I can. In the spirit of not engaging in thought loops or reassurance seeking, I’m going to step out. I’m always happy to answer new questions on topics that we haven’t previously discussed.

Just remember you’re not alone. When I was at Mayo Clinic having a nervous breakdown, the psychologist actually began my health profile in the patient portal by saying that I was “a very pleasant, bright 27-year-old dealing with a unique situation today...” Pleasant in the middle of a nervous breakdown. You’d never know if you met me on the street. Everyone has a story and you aren’t a failure. To live is to struggle, and you can always come back from struggles. And make sure you find time to enjoy some little things, too.
Click to expand...

You’re a beautiful soul and I wish I’d possessed a fraction of the awareness you have when I was your age. I hope your stance is respected because it stands as an example of the kind of healthy boundaries and choices we must make to be free, healthy and thriving. Your compassion and kindness is beyond question and quite simply, I love you. x
 
Balsa11 said:
Just curious, how would you not talk about the pain in TMS therapy if that's what you were there for? Do you mean not going over specific symptoms? It's easy to ignore them when they're mild, though.

Sometimes when it gets past a certain point in terms of what you can handle, talking about it can help you break out of the thought loop and see it in a new light.
Click to expand...

I kept telling her “But my pain is level 10. How do I ignore that??” She would reply, “This is preoccupation with the pain, even though it’s strong pain, it’s still just your brain creating it. Let’s talk about what’s been going on with your life over the last week etc.”. This ultimately taught me to retrain my brain to not take notice of what my pain was doing and rather go straight to how am I doing.
 
birdsetfree said:
I kept telling her “But my pain is level 10. How do I ignore that??” She would reply, “This is preoccupation with the pain, even though it’s strong pain, it’s still just your brain creating it. Let’s talk about what’s been going on with your life over the last week etc.”. This ultimately taught me to retrain my brain to not take notice of what my pain was doing and rather go straight to how am I doing.
Click to expand...


Nice! I think I can relate to this in that I'd be having a conversation and I'd happen to be less bothered by thoughts or pain.
 
plum said:
You’re a beautiful soul and I wish I’d possessed a fraction of the awareness you have when I was your age. I hope your stance is respected because it stands as an example of the kind of healthy boundaries and choices we must make to be free, healthy and thriving. Your compassion and kindness is beyond question and quite simply, I love you. x
Click to expand...
Plum, you are truly one of the wisest, kindest, most loving souls I have ever come across. I am grateful for you. Love you right back!
 
Balsa11 said:
Just curious, how would you not talk about the pain in TMS therapy if that's what you were there for? Do you mean not going over specific symptoms? It's easy to ignore them when they're mild, though.

Sometimes when it gets past a certain point in terms of what you can handle, talking about it can help you break out of the thought loop and see it in a new light.
Click to expand...

Hi Balsa11, in therapy we talk about fear and safety and feelings. This last year caught up to me in August and I was hit with a flare up that was worse than any previous tms symptoms. I was disabled by symptoms and my husband had to carry me to the bathroom at the worst point. None of my previous knowledge of tms was helping, so I decided to get therapy for tms. My symptoms were not my problem, my fear thoughts, fears about feelings and insecurities were what I needed help with. I never thought I had anything structural, but I was very fearful of the pain. I don't know how many sessions I had before my therapist even knew what my pain was.

Hope this answer is helpful,
Lizzy
 
tgirl said:
Plum, I had a look at this article and thank you for posting it. The crux of it seems to say ‘a profound intolerance of uncertainty’ can lead to reassurance seeking. It certainly rings true for me. The article is worth a read.
Click to expand...

I strongly encourage checking out Ali Greymond OCD on YouTube. I think she explains reassurance seeking - why we do it and why it's maladaptive - really well. She has a zillion videos and a lot of them cover them same ground, so I encourage you to just pick a few to get the idea ... and not turn watching her videos into another reassurance seeking behavior and feel the need to watch all zillion.

An intolerance of uncertainty and intolerance of related feelings of anxiety ... reassurance can temporarily provide relief by temporarily making you feel certain (regarding the situation you're worried about) and bring the anxiety down. But the ruminative brain gets back into the muck and finds ways to doubt the thing which was previously reassuring and spins it back up and suddenly you're doubly anxious and want another hit of reassurance. And the returns are diminishing. I don't even get the 'hit' of anxiety relief anymore ... at best, some rare reassuring statement will bring my anxiety down the tiniest bit for all of 5 minutes. In that sense I think it is like any other addiction.
 
Kozas said:
I remember that for 7 years, since my pain started to 2018 I was asking questions like 'why me?', 'why it still hurts?', 'is this my fault?' to my parents and especially my mom constantly(I mean in almost every time we talked, and for some of those years we lived together). After few years they where so tired they almost hated me. What helped me in this regard(OCD I would say) was work of John Kabat-Zinn but I know you are familiar with it. It did nothing with my pain, but it's a proof for me that at least OCD component is something you can recover from. What helped me break this horrific cycle were medition added to I think this book(sorry, I had polish edition and cover art is different, but I think it's this book):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindfulness-Health-practical-relieving-restoring/dp/074995924X
Every other meditation practice I tried in my life was a failure but this one made my mind free. I'm still in pain... but while before pain my life was 7/10, after pain it was 2/10, after this book it's 5/10. Not great, but not terrible I quess. Maybe it's worth a shot?
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll look into. It worries me that this doesn't address the pain ... if the pain is psychological. Many professionals have thought that my pain is sensorimotor OCD, but cutting out reassurance didn't help the pain ... which sends me back to thinking it's physical

I was the same way, especially with my Mom
 
birdsetfree said:
I kept telling her “But my pain is level 10. How do I ignore that??” She would reply, “This is preoccupation with the pain, even though it’s strong pain, it’s still just your brain creating it. Let’s talk about what’s been going on with your life over the last week etc.”. This ultimately taught me to retrain my brain to not take notice of what my pain was doing and rather go straight to how am I doing.
Click to expand...

When did the brain let go? Did you believe her?
 
eskimoeskimo said:
When did the brain let go? Did you believe her?
Click to expand...
Yes I believed her but could not embody this concept for at least six to eight months. I guess that was when I noticed myself automatically talking to her about emotional issues instead of pain levels. The pain at this point was greatly improved but I kept up regular sessions to keep adjusting my brain and strengthen the new pathways that were focused on getting to know me and how I had been living a life I had not authentically chosen. All in all I had therapy with her for about eighteen months at which point I felt more than ready to fly en solitaire!
 
Is it 'normal' to feel this badly? Every day I'm shocked / traumatized all over again by just. how. bad. I feel. Neck pain, all over pain, unreality, anxiety, depression, you name it. 'Accepting' sounds good until I'm actually in it. Accept this? Fat chance. Does everyone feel this way? I can't remember what's it like to not feel like absolute shit.
 
Kozas said:
I remember that for 7 years, since my pain started to 2018 I was asking questions like 'why me?', 'why it still hurts?', 'is this my fault?' to my parents and especially my mom constantly(I mean in almost every time we talked, and for some of those years we lived together). After few years they where so tired they almost hated me. What helped me in this regard(OCD I would say) was work of John Kabat-Zinn but I know you are familiar with it. It did nothing with my pain, but it's a proof for me that at least OCD component is something you can recover from. What helped me break this horrific cycle were medition added to I think this book(sorry, I had polish edition and cover art is different, but I think it's this book):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindfulness-Health-practical-relieving-restoring/dp/074995924X
Every other meditation practice I tried in my life was a failure but this one made my mind free. I'm still in pain... but while before pain my life was 7/10, after pain it was 2/10, after this book it's 5/10. Not great, but not terrible I quess. Maybe it's worth a shot?
Click to expand...

Can someone explain why this doesn't affect the pain if the pain is psychological and obsession driven?
 
Idearealist said:
Sounds familiar. This is something I'm starting to explore with my therapist, and I'm ngl, I feel so much dread at the prospect of facing such issues. I feel like I'm going to puke/crap my pants before each session.
Click to expand...
Facing reality can be so confronting. I was in denial for a long time but my therapist would not let me get out of it! I made some major changes over the course of a few years and my sense of self has grown with them. It helped me to see that those changes were necessary and I was strong enough to endure them although it has been a rocky road to travel. I feel as though my world has opened up emotionally, mentally and physically! Stay strong, listen to your gut and keep in touch!
 
birdsetfree said:
Yes I believed her but could not embody this concept for at least six to eight months. I guess that was when I noticed myself automatically talking to her about emotional issues instead of pain levels. The pain at this point was greatly improved but I kept up regular sessions to keep adjusting my brain and strengthen the new pathways that were focused on getting to know me and how I had been living a life I had not authentically chosen. All in all I had therapy with her for about eighteen months at which point I felt more than ready to fly en solitaire!
Click to expand...

I don't understand how it's possible to hold onto belief through so much suffering for so long. How could I still have any hope for getting better after 10 years of not? I'm so tired
 
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