Uuuuuugh / Drawabox

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

People might not consciously be thinking 'what a loser', but people see who you interact with. If youre talking to everyone, no matter what its about, people will see a guy that has a lot of people to talk to. This is one of those things that id love to try out. Face my fears and just start talking to people. I know therell be loads that dont want to but i should just get loose with everyone. I can blame my symptoms right now but i wouldnt have addresses this if i were healthy. I'm not scared of ordering a coffee or something or interacting with people, it is moreso fear that when i dont have anything to mention people will judge me personally. I hope you understand. When i order things or have questions about something there is no ulterior motive, and I know I'm a good talker -- or i used to be.

You said something about blaming the symptoms

This is so true. I get self improvement vibes when I'm not able to do anything, and then when I get healthy finally, I chicken out. Im not a huge nightlife person -- defo in part because im massively afraid of rejection esp women. But in our friend groups i used to do the talking at day like ordering stuff or calling a cab, but then at night theyd go ham and id just be scared. Its only when I'm afraid of personal rejection. At night I can ask someone a light or a cigarette but i wouldnt be asking them how are you. This long story is all to say that im aware that i have big plans when im not able to do something, but i still dont do them when im well. When i get better this is the main thing i want to address. I need to get loose and follow my heart, not my minds endless intrusive thoughts.

I remember every shameful interaction for years after when others will have long forgotten. I lie awake thinking about my social fails and i cant let them go. These are things i want to improve. I would like to live in the moment but im mega self aware.

These convos make me realize that i might not want to go to uni when i get bettet but instead first fix these things first. I guess ill follow my heart when the time comes.

As you see i got big plans, just need to double down. Social anxiety and fear of rejection need to go. Exposure would be a good measure when the time is right yeah?

I agree with BloodMoon in that the rabbit hole chats I think are getting into the territory of doing more harm than good in terms of diversion, I just wanted to say a few more things to finish on this and then I think it is wise to just focus on action and what actually do to about all of this.

The first part of what you said is basically you want to look successful and look like you have friends. That is completely externalising your self-worth - someone with true, internal confidence wouldn't give a stuff who they are seen to interact with. Thinking like that is going to put a lot of pressure on you and it's also not authentic. Authenticity means talking to people because you genuinely want to, not because of how it is seen by others in a sort of popularity contest. I am being harsh as you're only 19 (and I probably thought the same as you at 19), but the earlier in life you learn this the better as you can save yourself a lot of needless anxiety and self-doubt.

This continues in the next paragraph as you're putting pressure on yourself to perform and calling yourself a chicken, yet what I'm hearing is that when it's necessary (and authentic for you) to interact with people (like when calling a cab) you're great, but when you go to the nightclub and are put on the spot (and you have to socialise for the sake of it - which isn't authentic), it's difficult. Have you considered that this is the case because the nightclub simply isn't your scene and it isn't authentic for you to seek to socialise in this space? (you partially got there when you said you're not a huge nightlife person). I am completely speaking from experience because I used to base my self-worth on how I "performed" when I was out too - but now I appreciate that I hate club music (I prefer rock and pop), I hate not being able to hear anyone and having to shout over the music and I hate being crammed into an enclosed space like a sardine with drunk and sometimes violent people. I judged myself for a long time and said it was because I was afraid of rejection too, but in reality it just wasn't the right scene. I'm far better socially at an event during the day like a wedding for example - I think you need to cut yourself some slack. No one wants to talk to people all the time - imagine if I woke you up at 4am and told you that you have to go and meet someone new - you'd tell me to get lost - but not because you don't have the skills but because you aren't in the right headspace and you're too tired (and you'd probably be all over the place if you tried - even if you were a great "talker"). There's a reason why people need to get wasted at clubs - it's a horrible place to meet new people and it's the last place in the world where you should be critiquing your social skills at. You're mistaking a lack of confidence here with it just not being authentic for you. Authenticity means socialising when you genuinely want to (of course sometimes you have to socialise and do your best - like at work), not forcing yourself to and then judging yourself harshly when it doesn't go well (of course it won't go well because it isn't authentic! And people can tell if you're being inauthentic - they can sniff it out and this may just be my experience and not backed by science but women to me are even more perceptive on average to this - if you don't enjoy nightclubs then you're likely only going there in the back of your mind to meet people and women - they'll be able to tell and they'll feel manipulated - then you'll blame it on your social skills when in reality you should meet people as a byproduct of enjoying where you are - not as the sole goal - it's too much pressure and is inauthentic). Put another way, if you go the nightclub and have a terrible time, you might think "well this night would be saved if I met some new people", then you have the energy of needing something from someone and you're going to come off as a used car salesman or like someone who knocks on your door wanting to sell something - it doesn't matter how good you are socially, no one wants to be on the receiving end of that because they'll feel manipulated. The person knocking on my door could be the best communicator on the planet, but if he's trying to sell me something, I don't like him and I'll want him to go away (I'll still be polite of course (some people won't), but you get my point).

Finally, when you talk about social fails it sounds like you're judging what you're saying against a formula - nothing you say is "wrong" as long as it's authentic (unless it's wildly offensive or inappropriate) - you're putting massive pressure and in turn shame and guilt on yourself socially - I think this is likely a big contributor to your symptoms so I would be focusing on this in large part. Most of your "social fails" are likely when you've forced yourself to socialise when it wasn't authentic, inauthenticity is awkward and makes people feel uncomfortable, so the interaction was likely doomed (but that isn't a reflection of your social skills!).

 

[Mani]

@Adam Coloretti (coach)

I'm not gonna argue with you as we seem to have come to an agreement on what I should/n't be doing with my free time.

Just to that first paragraph, it has two sides. We all want to make contact, some people are just more scared to do so. In a class, do i make contact with people because i want to have an aura, or do i not make contact with them because im scared. I just wanted to say that im not really looking to expand the argument. Its not relevant to me right now and I'm fine skipping it for now. Perhaps we'll get into it some time later.

When you say do the work. If you cant say journaling, what is it? I think letting go and as youve said pressure on myself are big reasons for my symptoms. But that is sometimes more passive tms work, especially when the work is to not work.

Id like to adress the 'social fails', i wouldnt put people not liking me when im authentic in the 'social fail' category. To me social fails mean mostly just getting so scared that i just lock up. I never had social fails with parents. I could maybe lie in bed and think 'damn i wish i hadnt said that' but those are less devastating. Maybe I just cant even conceptualize not analyzing everything i do every single day. I just always feel like a work in progress. I dont know if ill ever stopp thinking about social interactions. Itd just be nice if i thought 'whoops, that wasnt it, but no worries, theres a next time'. I think that is authentic introspection.

These convos do not at all feel bad to me. I can see how maybe i think too much about all this stuffthough

 

[BloodMoon]

You mean journaling yeah? Ive done so much emotional work. So much to understand my youth and to really listen to what it says, and it just did not provide relief for me.

Journaling helps some (perhaps many), but not others. It didn't help me—I tried digging up and analysing the past (terribly depressing and re-traumatising) and pouring out the present (e.g. via 'stream-of-consciousness' journaling) but it never abated my anger or other emotions and so my symptoms didn't disappear or reduce.

I wrote 'unsent' letters to those who 'did me wrong' though, which has served to take the 'sting' out of old triggers when I'm reminded of them these days.

I've gone from bedridden/housebound with a myriad of disabling symptoms (my symptoms included tinnitus, but not hyperacusis) to functioning pretty well by comparison, by taking 'baby steps' back to normal life and taking some exercise.

Now, concerning my remaining symptoms, feeling and releasing emotions physically is working, as I have already shared with you in some detail in other postings of mine.

I feel like my brain finds safety in obsession with sound. Thats the 'tms' i think i need to tackle. That make sense?

Spot on—Sarno would call it a safe distraction from what the brain views as 'dangerous (to your survival)' emotions like rage, serving to repress them.

The other view sees it as an alarm bell from ignored/unfelt emotions, ringing to grab your attention and urge authentic living.

Either way: Pause during the 'obsession' (or other discomfort like your neck pain), scan your body curiously for underlying anger (or grief/sadness, boredom), then release physically—a sigh, shake, self-hug, or other movement. Can't pinpoint it? Say out loud or to yourself: 'I acknowledge there's an emotion here needing release' and sigh/shake anyway. For anger, you may need to also set and stick to a firm boundary with someone or about something.

This dials down the distraction/alarm, but requires resolve and patience—as we say in the UK, "no faffing around".

P.S. I believe the 'baby steps' that helped towards my recovery worked because they expressed some emotion through gentle physical action, easing 'surface tension' without fully addressing deeper emotions needing release—a partial emotional release, if you will.

 

[BloodMoon]

These convos do not at all feel bad to me.

Adam and I can see these conversations for what they mainly are — a diversion. Since joining the forum back in 2018, I’ve read — and in more recent years, since I started seeing profound improvement, replied to — countless posts. What becomes clear is that many people arrive here full of questions, doubts, long accounts of their difficulties, and detailed descriptions of symptoms. They often receive well‑meant, specific advice from those who’ve already recovered — explanations, suggestions, and practical things to try.

Yet time and again, a familiar pattern appears. It’s obviously perfectly fine to ask questions and explore ideas, but quite often every suggestion gets a “Yes, but…” or is sidestepped in some other way — and that’s really just another kind of diversion. In my view, your brain is doing something similar, just in a slightly different way — busying (and entertaining) itself by hopping from topic to topic or heading down rabbit holes.

This isn’t a blame game or a personal criticism — it’s actually very common in body–mind recovery. The thing is, while these conversations can bring valuable insights and ease some of the boredom that can come with being housebound, those insights still need to be acted on. And as you rightly mentioned, action doesn’t always mean doing more — it can also mean consciously stopping or letting certain things go.

I’ve already shared my experiences and suggestions about this, and as Adam mentioned in his latest post, he seems happy to keep helping you gently focus on taking those next steps into action.

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

@Adam Coloretti (coach)

I'm not gonna argue with you as we seem to have come to an agreement on what I should/n't be doing with my free time.

Just to that first paragraph, it has two sides. We all want to make contact, some people are just more scared to do so. In a class, do i make contact with people because i want to have an aura, or do i not make contact with them because im scared. I just wanted to say that im not really looking to expand the argument. Its not relevant to me right now and I'm fine skipping it for now. Perhaps we'll get into it some time later.

When you say do the work. If you cant say journaling, what is it? I think letting go and as youve said pressure on myself are big reasons for my symptoms. But that is sometimes more passive tms work, especially when the work is to not work.

Id like to adress the 'social fails', i wouldnt put people not liking me when im authentic in the 'social fail' category. To me social fails mean mostly just getting so scared that i just lock up. I never had social fails with parents. I could maybe lie in bed and think 'damn i wish i hadnt said that' but those are less devastating. Maybe I just cant even conceptualize not analyzing everything i do every single day. I just always feel like a work in progress. I dont know if ill ever stopp thinking about social interactions. Itd just be nice if i thought 'whoops, that wasnt it, but no worries, theres a next time'. I think that is authentic introspection.

These convos do not at all feel bad to me. I can see how maybe i think too much about all this stuffthough

In terms of the third paragraph, journalling for sure but as BloodMoon said it's not for everyone. Letting go and releasing pressure absolutely (you may not think what I said is relevant to you, but I didn't just say it for the sake of it - it's going to be a lot easier to let go and release pressure if you change your mindset, which is what I was offering). It is passive in a sense I understand, but at the same time it is active too as you're going to have to test yourself in life (it isn't purely an intellectual exercise).

When you said it'd be nice if I just thought "whoops, no worries, next time" - you sound as if that's massively unachievable. Why? I know it may feel that way, but logically it's pretty basic. Not every conversation you have is about curing cancer, 99% of them will have no impact on the world or either person's life. I'm not perfect here but I've gotten a lot better (I am speaking from experience though as this has been a big problem of mine also). It does actually help I feel to approach it from a place of humility - it's almost a luxury for us to be able to worry about locking up mid conversation - a large percentage of people in the world have to worry about where their next meal will come from or having access to clean water. I'm just sharing my strategies so take it or leave it, but this one around perspective and whether it actually matters in the scheme of things has probably led to the most progress for me - rather than actually trying to work with it specifically.

BloodMoon is right too about the "Yes, but" responses. I don't expect you to agree with me necessarily but I can tell that when I really poked at your insecurities (this last time - that wasn't my intention mind you I wasn't trying to rile you up on purpose or be cruel - I just seemed to unintentionally hit a nerve based on your reaction) you basically told me to leave it alone and that it's something we can skip (which you haven't come close to saying before). It's not surprising because you're protecting your insecurities (which we all do - and this time I went deep enough to trigger your protection to divert), because your insecurities protect you! It's the same thing as the pain and the same thing as what BloodMoon talked about this being a diversion in and of itself. If you let your insecurities fall away you're completely exposed, like you would be without the pain (you're doing this subconsciously).

So, all of this brings us to what to do going forward. The answer is you address the things that the pain is trying to protect you from/distract you from. If you address that then the pain becomes redundant (because there's nothing to protect). Given the way you responded to me poking at the insecurity around rejection, I would say this is likely the egg under the dragon so to speak (it might not be the only thing, but it sounds major). I was giving you suggestions around changing your mindset around rejection so that exposure becomes easier. Basically, if you change your mindset then it will become a less scary prospect to expose yourself to the fear, and then you can have corrective experiences. You can absolutely just go and expose yourself whilst retaining your current mindset, and I'm not saying that won't work, but it will be a lot more daunting. I do see your pain that way though. You're so averse to rejection (it's probably other things too) that the sensitivity to sound protects you from that - your subconscious has decided this is so scary that drastic protection measures are needed. I don't think it's a coincidence that the nightclub for example is somewhere where your symptoms would get massively triggered, but it also represents maybe the place of most risk in terms of rejection.

 

[Mani]

BloodMoon is right too about the "Yes, but" responses. I don't expect you to agree with me necessarily but I can tell that when I really poked at your insecurities (this last time) you basically told me to leave it alone and that it's something we can skip (which you haven't come close to saying before).

I am a 'yes — but' person but im not really afraid of anything you say and especially not afraid of you poking insecurities. I need to be aware of all the ways I'm harming myself. I just dont like to constantly discount things you say because they are good for introspection. Wait a second I'll take a look at the convo and see what I meant. I can see what you say about the club though. Its true. i find myself making peace with these things more and more. Obviously I'll still have these episodes but I feel like I'm coming to terms with not being able to do some things forever. I'll just see how it goes.

 

[Mani]

Lol everyone was telling me to stop talking because it serves as a distraction. I was just trying to respectfully end the conversation and not get into a full new argument. Listen mate, I can talk for aaaaages. I love thinking and hypothesizing, this is how ive lived life. Sure i could probably be in the moment a little more, thats why i might need to just stop coming here so often. I am gonna put up another post before leaving lol.

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

Lol everyone was telling me to stop talking because it serves as a distraction. I was just trying to respectfully end the conversation and not get into a full new argument. Listen mate, I can talk for aaaaages. I love thinking and hypothesizing, this is how ive lived life. Sure i could probably be in the moment a little more, thats why i might need to just stop coming here so often. I am gonna put up another post before leaving lol.

I know it may feel a bit argumentative (and I did go on after I said that we need to look forward I apologise, I just felt like I had something that was too good not to share before finishing! - so I understand your first sentence), and I'm sure I can speak for BloodMoon too, that isn't the intention (to argue that is - we have nothing to gain arguing with you). We are trying to help even if it is a bit confronting (but this work is)

I just hope you got something out of it that you feel you can implement - rooting for you to get over these symptoms and I want to know when you do!

Ps: When I talked about poking at the insecurity that wasn't actually my initial intention (I wasn't trying to rile you up on purpose or be cruel in any way - I should have made that clearer it was poorly worded) - but it seemed to me that I unintentionally did based on your reaction - so I was more commenting on that - I was trying to help at all times

 

[BloodMoon]

I'm sure I can speak for BloodMoon too, that isn't the intention (to argue that is - we have nothing to gain arguing with you). We are trying to help even if it is a bit confronting (but this work is)

Yes, Adam speaks for me as well, @Mani.

I contribute here for two main reasons...

First, to support others who may be struggling as I once did — I lived with profoundly disabling mind/body symptoms for over 25 years, and I now know that the right encouragement to do “the work” could have changed that. I like to help others avoid the same long road.

Second, writing about “the work” and the principles behind it reinforces my own understanding and progress.

When I highlight how a person’s mind may be maintaining the status quo — such as diverting attention away from doing “the work” — my sole intention is to offer perspective (in pointing out something that they aren't seeing or aren't fully seeing for themselves), and support.