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TMS vs Structural dilemma

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Morrie, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. Morrie

    Morrie New Member

    Hi, I have a bit of a TMS vs structural cause dilemma. I have had upper back, neck, shoulder pain for 25 years. 7 weeks ago I developed excruciating left hip and thigh pain and I heard about dr sarno at that time. I read 2 of his books and have done the SEP to day 28. I believe my 25 years of pain is TMS. However, I recently received my MRI results and consult and an extradural lesion on the left side at L2/L3 pressing on the left nerve root exiting L3 was found. After an initial scare of that lesion being a tumour it was diagnosed as a sequestered disc fragment that had broken off. This clearly corresponds to my pain. As I am improving I won't get surgery.. (often the fragment atrophies and shrinks and then re absorbs). It seems on this particular issue I fall within the 5% pain which is truly structural.
    So..... My dilemma is how do I proceed... Is this gonna wreck my TMS headspace about my long term pain issues by throwing in doubt. Can I deal with a structural issue and TMS at the at the same time?
    Appreciate any advice
  2. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Is there a TMS physician you can consult with?
  3. Morrie

    Morrie New Member

    I don't think there are any in the Toronto area.
  4. Anne Walker

    Anne Walker Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is a tough one. I would ask your physicians if they have ever seen anyone with this sort of lesion that was not in pain. I had a ruptured disc in my back, L4L5, with a pinched nerve over 20 years ago. I had surgery and then was still in chronic pain(reduced by 40-50% I would say) for several years afterwards. About two years ago I had a cervical MRI for a very painful neck/shoulder spasm with right sided head pain and the MRI revealed multiple bulging and ruptured discs. The doctors and my PT recommended surgery. I think my TMS recovery took much longer because of this structural diagnosis but here I am 18 months later and the spasm and pain are gone. I know when I had the ruptured disc in my back, one surgeon commented that I was very fortunate that the rupture corresponded with where I was feeling the pain. I remember it well because I thought it was such a strange comment to make, but now it makes perfect sense. I personally would ask your doctors if they felt there was any danger in waiting 6 months for surgery and if they say no, I would dive into the TMS work with everything you've got. Then keep an evidence sheet and if during the 6 months you notice any inconsistencies in the structural diagnosis, write it down. This is what I did and at the end of the six months, I had enough inconsistencies that I was not longer contemplating surgery. It took me quite a bit longer before I was pain free, but I am sure glad I made that choice.
  5. Morrie

    Morrie New Member

    Thanks Anne. I don't plan on getting surgery and the spinal neurosurgeon felt the same. If I had received the diagnosis within the first few weeks when I was in the most pain I probably would have gone with surgery. I'm lucky to live in Canada where testing moved along so slowly so there was time to see some improvement and time to do TMS work :).

    The initial radiologist reading the MRI asked to have metastatic causes ruled out (tumour) - gave me quite a scare- but turns out it was ruptured disc material (just large). The neurosurgeon explained that this material will usually shrivel up and get re absorbed which is probably why I've improved ( however, my TMS work may be playing a part as well). It just needs to shrink enough to stop pressing on that nerve.

    Now that I've seen my MRI results with all the other info on it which is likely irrelevant, and the bone scan showing arthritic changes etc.. I need to try and clear that from mind as I still believe upper back, shoulders, neck all these years is all TMS related. As Dr Sarno says.. doubt poses a problem.

    This one episode, even if structural, was the event, although a painful one, that allowed me to find and discover TMS - that's the upside
  6. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

  7. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Tom. It was good to hear your voice on the call-in last night.
    I learned a lot about the upcoming documentary and can see that a lot of work is being put into it.
    It's a huge undertaking and I think the TMSWiki community's help will be good and appreciated.
    Tennis Tom likes this.
  8. Morrie

    Morrie New Member

    Thanks Tom, he is very close to where I live. Do you know anyone who has been to him?
  9. ash86

    ash86 Peer Supporter

    It would definitely ease your mind to see a TMS physician. But take heart in knowing that in one of Dr. Weil's books he writes about a patient he had sent to Sarno for a sequestered disc (I almost want to say there was 2 of them), and he became pain free by completing the program. :)
  10. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    No, I've only been to B.C., play a tennis tournament at a grass court club (bare foot) on the Island at South Cowichan, and indoors at Arbutus Ridge. Maybe someone in your area will know him.

    G'luck! If you see him let us know how it goes.
  11. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Thanks Walt, good to hear your voice too, I think it was the first time on air Fuse. I was rather discombobulated for last night's Fuse because I was doing it from work, (multi-tasking is a myth), rather then at home where I can focus better on listening, munching on pistachios (causing Forest to kill my mic) and drinking Diet Coke laced with Amer Picon--it's very herbal and organic, along with about 74 proof.

    I was on the speaker phone and my employees were probably wondering what all the woo-woo was about. They're all young artists so they only get behind installations where they provide free wine. They know something weird is going on (besides hauntings) since I've got SteveO's book in all the rooms, between the Gideon's Bible and the Book of Buddha. Also, the Fuse software format was new, throwing my TMS/technical Luddite homeostasis for another loop. I was unable to find the video and see people's faces--bummer.

    I'll listen to the recording if it comes out to see what I missed. I think the main thing needed to spread the TMS word is a good senior PR professional with entre to the editors and tv program producers to get the likes of SteveO, Nicole, yourself and Eric onto the popular media above the fold and onto prime time, (BTW, where is "Herbie" these days?--hope he's alright) . I think SteveO's story could make a great TMS screen-play; he should have been on Oprah by now. Maybe one of the rich and famous who've been "cured by Sarno" can lend the TMS cause their agent for a while


    P.S. I had an RFA medical procedure today that is one hell of a lot less invasive then a total hip replacement!--WHAT EVER WORKS!

    P.P.S. It's only been about six hours and I' m able to walk around with-out a cane for the first time in about a year. Don't know if it's the local anesthetic/cortisone cocktail, "surgery is the best PLACEBO!", the Picon float--time will tell. The good news is the lovely MD said I could hit tennis balls tomorrow, bad news is it's raining in sunny kali and can't use read in the hot-tub for three days until the tiny needle holes seal up.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
  12. Morrie

    Morrie New Member

    Hey Tom
    BC is beautiful. I lived on the other side of the province for a bit... Fernie -big powder ski country!
    Barefoot tennis on grass - now that must be nice.

    It's interesting to hear that you can bridge TMS and conventional medical treatments - that's good to know.

    Those MRIs I've had really open a pandoras box and mess with your mind. They are still unclear as to whether the mass on spinal cord is a tumour or disc material and will be repeated in a month - I'm sure it's the latter as my symptoms are better not worse (tumours don't shrink - disc material does!) All the other nonsense on bone scans and MRIs showing arthritic conditions in shoulders, neck, back, stenosis etc.. I believe are irrelevant and maybe I would be better to never see this stuff!!

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