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TMS Therapists Asking for Exorbitant Fees and Not Taking Insurance

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Cynstarlight, Dec 2, 2021.

  1. Cynstarlight

    Cynstarlight New Member

    I have been looking for a TMS Therapist for quite a few years to no avail. They are quoting exorbitant fees (i.e. $350 for 45 minutes or even more) and don't take insurance. I live in NYC, but can do online therapy. Does anyone know of a TMS Therapist who charges a reasonable rate? I would greatly appreciate any information. Thanking you in advance.
  2. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    You may want to consider a coach because coaching tends to be shorter term and less costly. Most (if not all!) coaches are former sufferers as well. Most therapy covered by insurance is standard CBT but unfortunately the mental health world is not chronic pain informed , and the medical world is not psychology informed! There are few here on the wiki (myself included) and you can check the practitioner directory as well. There are other options as well: group classes on zoom (these are good for newbies and quite inexpensive imo), and free programs like the SEP (here), and Curable App.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
    TG957 likes this.
  3. fridaynotes

    fridaynotes Well known member

    I was just pondering this recently… it seems so much these days that TMS and pain relief therapy has become a BIG BUSINESS. I do think that many people are taking monetary advantage of people in desperate pain, offering all types of therapies, yoga classes, subscriptions, coaching, education plans etc… kudos to those who give it out free! sure, people
    need to make money and provide services. but i get a sense that people are being taken advantage of when they’re at their most desperate. I see TMS recovery being almost like a spiritual inner work and generally that’s handed out gratis, such as in AA or a church, spiritual group, etc... sure, you pay in one way or another~ but in general it’s a benevolent work that people along the path offer to others. anyway~ i agree with the above sentiment that TMS therapists and much help are generally out of most people’s financial reach. Thankfully this forum is free and the SEP is also free. thank you!
  4. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    I think we have to differentiate between Pain Management which is a billion dollar industry of epic proportions that has wreaked an opiate epidemic, and TMS therapists or coaches. Practitioners in the mind body field are not there to offer "pain relief" , but rather to uncover the root cause of why a person's anxiety has manifested in learned pain through somatic pathways. By collaborating with the patient/client, the goal is to reverse the strategy and help them to become empowered. This is usually short term ( a few sessions, or a few months), as opposed to being dependent on a practitioner, such as a pain management dr., a chiropractor, acupuncturist , PT etc. etc etc. Anyone who goes into the mind body field is not motivated by money, as it's a hard sell to begin with, and it is not a field in which one gets "rich". There are a lot of fancy clinics and spas in the mainstream world (Mayo Clinic or Spero Clinic or Cleveland Clinic for ex, as well as woo woo/ alternative clinics that can cost 6K per week), but there is nothing like that in the TMS/MBS world. As far as the mental health field just in general, most psychiatrists do charge easily 3oo and up per hour, as do many psychologists ...so this is not unique to those who specialize in chronic pain (TMS). In NYC, even a personal trainer can cost a few hundred an hour. The vast majority of social workers, coaches and even psychologists (some are my personal friends) earn modest incomes and went into the field because they have a heart for it. They are compensated for their time and often they go above and beyond for their clients. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to do this kind of work and it's not something any ethical therapist or coach takes lightly. These are people's lives and stories they are entrusted with. Are there many charlatans and scammers in the world who market "pain relief"? yes sure...look at the weight loss industry or even autism (you should see how they prey on vulnerable parents of children diagnosed with autism), but it's up to you to discern and check a person's qualifications before investing your money. We are on the cusp of huge paradigm shift and insurance companies are recognizing that this kind of therapy (tms therapy) ameliorates people's lives and helps them to reclaim their lives and earning potential, rather than draining society. Not only has it been proven to be far more effective than pain management or traditional therapies that help people "cope" (whatever that means!), it is far quicker process. When I look back on my own, all expense paid trip through the hell of the medical mill, I spent untold amounts on ketamine, nerve blocks, drugs, calmare therapy, alternative quackery... and a fraction of that on TMS therapy... which was worth EVERY PENNY. While it's true that one can get better on their own (books, online programs etc) and there are many wonderful volunteers here on the wiki, sometimes you just need a little extra support and one on one. You may even need to speak to a practitioner who suffered from something similar to you and can help you gain clarity and guide you out of the wilderness. I know I certainly did, and it paid off. Did I begrudge my therapists at The Pain Psychology Center for charging me? Of course not! They offer a service, skill sets, expertise, and TIME. That has value, just as anything else does. I don't expect my hair stylist to color and cut my hair for free, so why should a therapist or coach? In closing, I think it's important not to lump everyone in the same category because there are vast differences in premises and approaches and goals...as well as fees.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
  5. hawaii_five0

    hawaii_five0 Well known member

    Miffybunny has nailed it above. I recently did some research on some options on coaches and possible programs to follow. If you PM me I can share what info I have.

    It depends of course on what you think will be necessary or best for you, if you feel like you really need to speak to a licensed therapist, vs following something like an online or book-based program, with occasional pep talks/advice from a coach.
    Cap'n Spanky likes this.
  6. Miriam G. Bongiovanni

    Miriam G. Bongiovanni Peer Supporter

    I thought I'd share my thoughts from the perspective of a TMS Coach.

    My fees are much less than what you've been quoted, but as a coach, I cannot take insurance (sadly, this is out of my control). I make sure that the fee covers my time and any additional costs (since I take the time to prepare for each session, and also up to an hour after the session to write a personalized follow-up with action steps for every client, this means that in reality that's 2 hours of work - plus I am always available to answer to emails and offer continuous support).

    Additional costs of course include all the fees I pay to host my website, and subscription fees needed to have access to all the tools I need for my coaching venture. Unfortunately, without making sure that these are covered and that I am left with a small profit, I wouldn't be able to run my business and help people at all, as I would need to seek employment somewhere else. This is the reality with every kind of coaching or therapy.

    One thing I would nudge you to look into is what the fee actually includes. Does it include access to a program or to personalized follow-up? How much value are you really going to get? I understand that it is expensive if you're paying $350 and all you're getting is 45 minutes of attention, with no additional guidance beyond that.

    Other than that, there are other options beyond therapy/coaching that you could look into, such as chronic pain recovery programs. These can be much cheaper and offer a lot of value, as they will give you a structure that prevents overwhelm. Also keep in mind that to heal from TMS, you need to build new habits (so a one-time therapy session isn't going to do the trick for you - you need to implement what you learn on a daily basis and change your thought patterns).

    Hoping this helps, and remember there are plenty of options out there (and cheaper doesn't mean worse, as there are exceptional coaches out there who are just starting out, and who are equally insightful due to their personal experience and the wealth of knowledge they've gained from their studies).

    All the best,

    Miriam Gauci Bongiovanni
    Cactusflower and miffybunny like this.
  7. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    I think this is an important discussion, from both the coaches and clients' side.

    I will also respond as a "TMS Coach." I do charge money, but much less than the fee you're mentioning. Sometimes I feel bad even asking for money (being a Goodist ;)), but I have decided this is best for my attitude, my commitment and engagement, and helps maintain a clear relationship for working with TMS. And yes, I spent about 20K in one year on all the wrong treatments, before I learned about TMS, so there's that.

    As others have said, cynstarlight, do look around. I hope you get the help you're looking for.

    ---and a huge amount of this, of course can be done without help.

    miffybunny you nailed it when you mention what it takes to "take on" a suffering person long distance, working on inner dynamics, holding this person in your heart and mind. This is not for the faint-hearted! It is also incredibly rewarding.
    miffybunny and hawaii_five0 like this.
  8. Ann Miller

    Ann Miller Well known member

    I'm also responding as a TMS coach. Here is what I'll add to what the others have already said. What we all want is VALUE for our money. I think the original poster's issue was value from the dollars expected by therapists. Every individual deserves to be pain free and free to enjoy their life fully. Many of us offer free resources, for example, I have a free Facebook group, I offer free advice on here and in other Facebook forums. Because we know how precious being pain free is, we are driven to help others find their way. At a certain point, compensation for that help is only fair.
    hawaii_five0 and miffybunny like this.
  9. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Andy, you should not feel bad about charging money. It is a weird psychological trick, but most people value things based on how much they pay. If they don't pay you, they don't believe that your coaching has value. I have no doubts you are more than reasonable with your fees.
    BloodMoon likes this.
  10. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    Well said Rita
  11. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is so true. Thanks for your kind words, Tamara.
  12. BloodMoon

    BloodMoon Beloved Grand Eagle

    This I have found to be so true, albeit in a different field. I trained to be a hairdresser in my spare time as a hobby (my actual work was a world away from anything artistic) and I used to 'hairdress' for friends and family for free; they only paid for their hair dye etc. I found that the 'friends' in particular ended up taking my services very much for granted - instead of them fitting in with me, they wanted me to inconvenience myself for them (one 'friend' was even put out when I asked her to pick up some perming solution for her hair from the wholesalers, which was on her usual route home). I charged nothing, so my services became 'nothing' to them (funny how they didn't seem to remember how much it would have cost in a salon...but I guess their memory was refreshed when I told them that I wouldn't be doing their hair anymore!). I should have charged 'mates rates' - or even reasonable full rates - right from the start....lesson learned. I guess those 'friends' weren't really friends, but I think there's definitely an element of basic human nature involved here.

    This discussion reminds me of this tale:

    A giant ship engine failed. The ship’s owners tried one expert after another, but none of them could figure but how to fix the engine.

    Then they brought in an old man who had been fixing ships since he was a young man. He carried a large bag of tools with him, and when he arrived, he immediately went to work. He inspected the engine very carefully, top to bottom.

    Two of the ship’s owners were there, watching this man, hoping he would know what to do. After looking things over, the old man reached into his bag and pulled out a small hammer. He gently tapped something. Instantly, the engine lurched into life. He carefully put his hammer away. The engine was fixed!

    A week later, the owners received a bill from the old man for ten thousand dollars.

    “What?!” the owners exclaimed. “He hardly did anything!”

    So they wrote the old man a note saying, “Please send us an itemized bill."

    The man sent a bill that read:

    Tapping with a hammer………………….. $ 2.00

    Knowing where to tap…………………….. $ 9,998.00
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021

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