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Tingling sensations and somatic tracking

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Jbrew, Dec 8, 2021.

  1. Jbrew

    Jbrew Newcomer

    Hi there,

    I recovered from a horrible stint of RSI through TMS healing and since then I have had pretty consistent tingling, mainly in my legs.

    I am wondering if somatic tracking should be used with consistent tingling sensations or whether this makes the situation worse?

    Would love any thoughts from the group.

  2. FredAmir

    FredAmir Well known member

    Just do what worked for RSI and it should work for tingling as well.

    I had tingling in both legs as well as arms and hands. It was all TMS and all of it went away.
  3. Jbrew

    Jbrew Newcomer

    Thanks Fred, helpful to know!

    I do find it a little different to deal with than the RSI given the sensations are so constant. With the RSI I quickly got over being scared of the pain which made the RSI leave. However, the tingling isn't scary yet is annoying as it's so constant. Any other tips much appreciated.

  4. DWA

    DWA Peer Supporter

    I am fighting this battle now. I have Peripheral Neuropathy, with no known cause, and have had it for 12 years. It is slow, progressive and has no cure or therapy. It is not TMS related. Essentially the nerves die in my feet causing numbness and discomfort when walking. It is sensory related, not muscular, but I've studied it so much in trying to find relief that I've become very educated in the disease process. This isn't necessarily a good thing! My brain now knows what to expect in coming years as it progresses and moves up my legs. This, of course, can become depressing and I'm constantly checking for signs of progression of symptoms. Most people with this disease experience popping and tingling in legs/arms due to nerve die-off. I've been lucky this hasn't happened to me yet, but since my brain knows it is likely coming, it can play tricks on me. I had this tingling/popping a couple years ago and it threw me into a nosedive. I was able to treat the tingling with TMS therapy with help of this website and Sarno/SteveO books. After a few months I noticed the tingling was gone. I'm now in a stressful phase in my life and the tingling returned about a month ago and occurs 24/7, so fighting the same battle again. My point here is that your brain can really mess with you. Try not to obsess about the tingling. Ignore, don't fear and continue with normal activities and it will likely disappear without you really knowing it...
    Lavender likes this.
  5. fridaynotes

    fridaynotes Well known member

    I am currently experiencing tingling and numbness in my lower arms and lower legs. Not painful, but uncomfortble for sure... also some muscle weakness and general feeling of not being "well" I have had a number of TMS symptoms go away after doing TMS related inner work, so I know what this is and I know how to treat it... However, I've been experiencing this tingling for about three months with some days being extremely minimal and others days being really bad. I have found that meditation, journaling and relaxation techniques have helped... but it's still lingering. I wonder that if one progresses in catching and healing TMS, that it comes back with the symptom imperative in more mysterious, beguiling ways...? many have told me "Chronic Lyme" but I dismiss that as another manifestation of TMS. I believe anything with "no known cause" is likely TMS. We must sally forth and do the hard inner work and give it time~ there is no set timeline for recovery.
  6. FredAmir

    FredAmir Well known member

    J brew,

    Excellent observation! Yes, your strong emotions toward RSI made you and your subconscious motivated to get rid of it.

    Since tingling is just annoying, you do not have the same level of eagerness to eliminate it. So it remains.

    I have a series of videos on how to become motivated and stay motivated to eliminate TMS. Make sure to watch the last one too on mistakes that delay recovery.
  7. FredAmir

    FredAmir Well known member

    Hi DWA,
    Your symptoms might be due to B12 deficiency. Please see my post on the three tests that determine your B12 level. Blood test alone is not enough.

  8. DWA

    DWA Peer Supporter

    I've dug extensively to find the cause, and yes, B12 deficiency was on my list. I had extensive blood work that came back normal, but on the low side, and even convinced my primary care doctor to give me several B-12 injections. Level came up, but feet did not respond...
  9. fridaynotes

    fridaynotes Well known member

    yeah~ when it’s TMS, not even all the vitamins in the world can help as much as doing the inner work.
  10. DWA

    DWA Peer Supporter

    Agreed, but unfortunately, Peripheral Neuropathy, confirmed by 3 abnormal EMG's and Nerve condition studies and 12 years of progressive disease advancement, is not a TMS substitute unfortunately...
  11. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    @DWA , I believe you are not correct in your assessment of tingling and neuropathy, especially with no known cause.

    I had neuropathy in my hands and was told that my nerves were damaged and that my EMG was a proof of the terminal nature of my neuropathy. After 2 years of working on TMS, I no longer have tingling or any kind of neuropathy. It was all just TMS, a creation of my brain. Please stop telling yourself that your nerves are dying, they may end up dying for no reasonable cause, just from being told that they are supposed to die :=).
    plum and fridaynotes like this.
  12. DWA

    DWA Peer Supporter

    I appreciate your thoughts on the subject. Question: Did you get a follow up EMG after your hands felt better? Did it show normal when your original EMG showed abnormal?

    I am not new to TMS therapy, I am a believer and it has helped me through some lower level health issues. I have treated my PN as TMS equivalent for 4 years now, without any success. I have sought out and been treated by a TMS doctor, even spoken with Dr. Schubiner regarding TMS and PN. The thought that PN is mind-body related illness is certainly out there. I think it gets confusing as "peripheral Neuropathy" is a catch-all term for any tingling/popping nerve issue that folks might have that tend to come and go. These vibrations and buzzing sensations that come and go, I believe, are clearly TMS related. But, after years of PN research and care by 3 top area neurologists, I have come to understand that there is a "real" disease state of PN that causes slow steady die-off of peripheral nerves. Always starts in toes/feet and slowly moves up legs as more nerves die. There is no cure, no therapy that works. This is well established. There are over 30 million cases of PN diagnosed. It's an epidemic. Diabetic and Chemo induced PN make up 50% of cases with "idiopathic" or unknown making up the rest. So my symptoms don't come and go and the nerves continue to die off. It's been 12 years since the symptoms started in my feet, I hardly paid them any attention back then. It's so life-altering now and I'm so in-tune with TMS therapy, that I dug in and did all the research, journaled, sought therapy, studies Sarno principles etc., then took SteveO's advice and just went back to living my life and hoped recovery would come, but it never does. I had one renowned Neurologist that I waited for 6 months to get an appt. tell me that PN is very "real" disease, and further most (all?) neurological diseases offer no treatment. I pushed the mind-body treatment philosophy with this Dr. and he told me PN is a well established disease state, as is MS, ALS or Parkinson's and then he asked me how I thought treating ALS with emotional therapy would work?

    Still, I find comfort in TMS therapy for helping me life my best life and quiet anxiety/depression around the pain from the PN. That's why I still frequent this board :)
  13. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi @DWA,

    It's so unfortunate that these so called "experts" are such abysmal failures when it comes to chronic pain. Not only do they not help patients (other than prescribing useless drugs), but they actually causes tremendous iatrogenic suffering with their messages of doom and gloom. The combination of ego, hubris, and greed amongst many medical practitioners today is unfortunate. We need to stop viewing doctors as God(s) or authorities on our lives. Idiopathic is another way of saying "we don't know", which proves my point lol. Do you think it's possible that despite your belief in the tms approach and your sincere work, that you may have been harboring some kind of doubt or qualm about these particular symptoms? Doubt creates fear, and fear creates symptoms, so we have to call out the doubt and make sure it's not lurking in shadowy corners of our minds. If they have not found an actual pathology process that would cause your nerves to "die off" (like diabetes), then it has to be brain based. If it's brain based, it's not a structural issue. Logically, it still points to TMS. Abnormal EMG's are meaningless and often give a false positive result. The fact that it has "progressed" is not a measure of "disease" progression, but merely heightened fear and signals from the brain. Banishing doubt is key here.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2021
  14. DWA

    DWA Peer Supporter

    Thanks for the comment, I think this is a worthwhile discussion. I know the tenet of TMS therapy is that you must believe 100% in order to recover. To be honest, this seems like a cop out to me or an "escape clause". No doubt about it, I've had a hard time fully believing that my 12 year, progressive battle with PN is TMS related (once I discovered Dr. Sarno's work about 4 years ago). My nerve damage just doesn't seem to fit the criteria of TMS equivalent. It doesn't jump around, I don't have good days and bad days. Its there every day. It's not "structural" per se, because it's nerve related. Idiopathic means unknown cause. If not one of the more common causes of PN (diabetes, chemo, B-12 deficiency), then it gets hard to find the source. I've had every blood test, MRI etc. It could be auto-immune, or maybe from a virus that I did have a few years prior to onset of my symptoms? Could be genetic, who knows? My Neurologists point was that if we even knew the cause, there is still no viable treatment, so what's the point? Anyway, I tried exhaustively to convince my brain that this was TMS. Unfortunately my career and beliefs are very scientific-based. Since my original diagnosis with abnormal EMG, I really dug into the accuracy of EMG's as this was a sticking point in my brain-a confirmation of my doomed future as you pointed out. I had a second opinion and repeat EMG with a different Neurologist with the same results. I even had it repeated a third time by Neurologist #2, again, same abnormal results. I then researched studies on the procedure itself, and found that if done by capable Doctors (not assistants or interns), then EMG's are highly accurate and the gold standard in confirming PN. I have inquired in various PN forum boards if anyone had ever had an abnormal EMG (with PN diagnosis), felt improvement with any type of treatment, and then had another EMG that showed "normal". In my mind, this would be proof of recovery, but I never found anyone...

    I know what you mean about fear causing symptoms. I work very hard on my mental approach (TMS therapy is very helpful here!). I refuse to curtail my activities and do everything I normally would even though my feet are painful and uncomfortable 24/7. I take no meds for this condition, as none that I tried were helpful.
  15. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    You are asking an interesting question, the one that I ask myself a lot, what would my EMG show now? No, I did not have a follow up EMG, for a very simple reason: it is unlikely that my HMO would allow a referral to EMG if the patient is claiming not having any symptoms anymore. They are not a research facility, they are clinic.

    However, if this can help, I can tell you about my encounter with EMG and a very experienced neurologist, with close to 40 years of practice under his belt. My original diagnosis was carpal tunnel syndrome and it was confirmed by at least 3 doctors that I saw at the time. It ended up being something else (CRPS), which ended up being irrelevant because both were TMS. However, I did not know that at the time, since I had not heard of Dr. Sarno back then.

    I apologize, but to save my time I am giving you a straight quote from the book I published about my recovery, so please don't be annoyed by me going off the subject at hand, but pay attention to the last paragraph:

    He concluded that signal degradation in both my hands indicated definite nerve damage and recommended that I undergo a steroid injection and, if that did not help, surgery. At that point, I asked him whether either of the two procedures would fix my curled fingers. He did his best to avoid the answer. He could see that I was very skeptical about the CTS diagnosis, that I was upset that it took so long for The Clinic to have me scheduled for the procedure, and, despite my allocated time being only 30 minutes, he offered to give me a consultation beyond the basic EMG procedure. I was floored. I was finally seeing a doctor who was willing to discuss my illness. Unlike Dr B, he did not repeatedly state that I had CTS and because I had CTS and that I had to go through steroid injections because that’s what was recommended for CTS.

    Dr. W was a nice man. He definitely loved his craft. He walked out of the room and came back with a big, heavy book on neurology. He also brought a brochure on CTS, written and published sometime in the ‘40s or ‘50s. He told me that to him this brochure was still the best material on CTS because it was so clearly written. He started with the explanation of why he chose neurology some 40 years ago. He was a very analytical person and when he was in medical school at UCLA, he found nerves to be very logical. He showed me the diagrams and drawings in the book. The electrical signals that power our nervous system either exist or not. That’s why it is so logical – here he got excited. You see – he pointed at my chart – both of your hands show significant degradation in the strength of electrical signal. That’s why you feel the pain, numbness, and tingling because there is simply not enough electricity to feed the tendons.

    That’s when I asked him again about my curled fingers. How does the degradation of electrical signal explain the fact that I can’t straighten out my fingers? How confident are you in the CTS diagnosis? - I asked. He said, 75%. I asked him, what about the other 25%? He insisted that 75 was still greater than 25. To that, I had to agree – his math sounded very logical.

    Leaving the logic of the other 25% aside, I asked him about the effectiveness of the steroid injection procedure and the rate of success. He looked puzzled. You know – he said – I used to run a clinic with my partner, a hand surgeon. When I referred people to my partner, they would come back to me and I would evaluate them after the procedure. But that was a long time ago. Now at The Clinic, I just refer people out, but I don’t see them after the treatment. They go for the follow-up to their primary doctors. That was a good question, he said.

    As we progressed into our conversation about the logical nature of the nervous system, he remembered a patient who he’d seen some years back. The patient had a bad case of CTS in one hand, but Dr. W did EMG on both hands. The hand with no pain at all had a much deeper degradation of electrical signals. I can’t recall where the conversation went after that point. I think I quickly agreed that nerves were very logical and got ready to leave.
    As someone with mathematical/scientific professional background, I readily agree with you ahead of time that my single case is not a statistic or even more so a scientific fact; yet, it could serve as an indication of how unsettled the world of clinical medicine is. It changed it's course so many times over the past couple centuries, maybe we should be more critical of the standard treatments of the day when it comes to brain: neuroscience has just come out of a crib only 10-15 years ago. I also would like to encourage you to read works of Dr. Norman Doidge who I credit for building up my own confidence that my brain could be re-wired successfully.

    I absolutely do not want to make an impression that I am trying to convince you that you did not try hard enough in your TMS journey, but sometimes a simple change of angle may be helpful in our outlook and respective outcomes. I deeply sympathize with your pain and suffering and I wholeheartedly wish to see your success story on this forum.

    plum, DWA and miffybunny like this.
  16. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi @DWA , I don't think you need to have 100 percent belief but we do need to get rid of the doubts that are keeping you stuck and keeping the tms strategy alive. In my opinion, doubt is lurking behind the whole EMG thing (which Dr. Schubiner spoke about in my practitioner course....it almost always yields "positive" results in the presence of brain based pain signals, so it's a red herring) and even more importantly it's hiding behind the clinging to "science". Science does not have all the answers unfortunately, and mainstream "science" has not provided you with any answers. "Idiopathic" is not an answer or a cause. There is plenty of hard science to back up brain induced pain (Tms, learned pain, neural circuit pain, ) but for whatever reason, it hasn't trickled down to mainstream medicine. As long as you harbor doubt, it will undermine everything else you do. It's like eating a healthy diet while simultaneously taking poison.
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  17. DWA

    DWA Peer Supporter

    Thanks Miffy and TG for your well-crafted responses. TG, I was thinking the same as you and as part of my TMS approach to my stubborn PN, I focused on the unlearning pain approach and have already read "the brain that changes itself" by Dr. Doidge, and a few others along the same lines :). Also, it's probably worth mentioning that my feet numbness started very minimally 12 years ago (my early 40's!) and I wasn't even concerned about them, it was a couple years before I even mentioned the issue to my primary care doctor. As the numbness and pain progressed slowly over the next few years, my regular doctor finally sent me to a neurologist and I had my first EMG. I readily admit that the experience of seeing this first neurologist and all the extensive (and scary) testing was very unsettling and amped up the fear 10 fold. But, if the numbness/nerve damage was brain related (TMS), then why did it continue and slowly progress even when I wasn't fearing it or even thinking about it? It sure seems that it has followed a "true" disease state and not the haphazard pattern that might signify mind-body origin.

    Also, troubling to me, I see so many folks on this board and others with short-term tingling, burning that they are freaking out about and they get EMG's and they return "normal". It's so easy for me to see their symptoms as clearly mind-body based, but my long-standing, steady symptoms with the 3 abnormal EMG's as "true disease"...
  18. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    @DWA , both @miffybunny and I were diagnosed with CRPS which is also known as suicide disease. It is progressive and moves slowly until it becomes full-body. We both were told by the doctors that we had to live with it until the death us part. We both fully recovered. Neuropathy is a very large component of CRPS, one of the key symptoms, along with many others. I was lucky not to get to the full-body phase, but @miffybunny did. You can see her story on Thank you, Dr. Sarno site, and I highly recommend that you read it. It is absolutely heartwarming.
    Going back to your condition, maybe the key is that you did not think much of it? I had numbness and tingling showing up in my hands and feet occasionally before the onset of CRPS. All gone now, except for the residual very mild numbness in my right hand that is shrinking, albeit very, very slowly as the time goes. Finally, the only doctor I would trust in your case is Dr. Schubiner.
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