Those constant symptoms...

Rusty Red

Rusty Red

Well known member
Those are the ones that always trouble me more. I've had some people tell me those can be TMS as well but you hear so much about TMS being symptoms that come and go and move, that the ones that are always there give me a lot of doubt.

How do you resolve that mentally if you have symptoms that don't come and go? For me it's the hamstring/hip pain (diagnosed with tendinopathy and FAI, labral tear, arthritis) and the right side pain that goes down my right back and wraps around to my abdomen (supposedly referred from a left herniated thoracic disc).
 
Chronic, unchanging symptoms don’t rule out mind/body symptoms; some people experience pain that is constant rather than migratory. Mind/body symptoms are about how the nervous system maintains pain through sensitised neural pathways often linked to emotional stress, personality traits, or long-held beliefs about injury and pain. Even when pain is steady, it can result from the brain’s persistent fear and vigil over a presumed “danger”. And the brain chooses to concentrate on places in one's body to give symptoms where one's more likely to believe that they are of a physical cause, like where one's had an injury in the past or to do with an activity that one wants to do... there's nothing more frustrating and thus distracting than the latter!

Constant symptoms can go...

I had pudendal neuralgia-like pain for around 2 years that was constant that made sitting absolute hell and even hurt when I was standing. It's completely gone now without medical intervention of any kind.

I had severe wrist and thumb pain in my right (dominant) hand (suspected De Quervain's tenosynovitis) that felt like a truck had run over my hand (and I'm not exaggerating!) for circa a year, which was constant. That's gone now too, without medical intervention.
 
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@Rusty Red
Right there with you. Constant pain sucks. Constant symptoms—you can be so tempted to get overwhelmed and discouraged. Totally discouraged! You want to think there Must Be an answer to this! And there is. What @BloodMoon just testified to… she’s an example. If we hang in there, one day that will be us. We can overcome. Not sure why it goes on and on. And it’s so steady. But all I can think is maybe there’s something about HOW I SEE the WORLD that is contributing to my inner rage. Maybe I expect more than life can really offer? Maybe my relatives will always overwhelm me (for a ton of reasons.) Maybe I can’t make them all go away.I wonder if I’ll feel better when I sort all this out? Maybe even though I’ve done a ton of work, I just haven’t gotten to where I need to be yet? I think it’s frustrating that some people get better faster and some slower. But that’s just reality.
 
I agree that this is frustrating. When I had other symptoms (not the ones I am dealing with now)-they were constant. And I was at my wits end. I did notice that they did not show right away when I woke up. It was almost like I had to be fully awake and then the symptoms would do their thing. (which was in the first 5 minutes of waking up) See if something like that happens with you as well. Do you get brief microseconds of relief? What happens to when you get tired or groggy? It might help to look at them different like that.
 
Joulegirl said:
I agree that this is frustrating. When I had other symptoms (not the ones I am dealing with now)-they were constant. And I was at my wits end. I did notice that they did not show right away when I woke up. It was almost like I had to be fully awake and then the symptoms would do their thing. (which was in the first 5 minutes of waking up) See if something like that happens with you as well. Do you get brief microseconds of relief? What happens to when you get tired or groggy? It might help to look at them different like that.
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Most days it’s the same for me. Some days I don’t want to wake up fully, cause when I’m in between sleeping and waking up, I feel microseconds or minutes of relief. I can even get annoyed if my boyfriend wakes me up too fast… I don’t think it would be like this, if it was purely physical, right?
 
monica-tms said:
Most days it’s the same for me. Some days I don’t want to wake up fully, cause when I’m in between sleeping and waking up, I feel microseconds or minutes of relief. I can even get annoyed if my boyfriend wakes me up too fast… I don’t think it would be like this, if it was purely physical, right?
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Since symptoms can remain the same or change I would chalk it up to being TMS. In my case, the doctor basically gave me a prescription and said there was nothing more he could do for me. At that point, was when I had no where else to go and I found this website several months later. I use my evidence list a lot when I start doubting if it's TMS. I've definitely read through it a couple of times today alone since the TMS Doubt was really getting to me.
 
BloodMoon said:
Chronic, unchanging symptoms don’t rule out mind/body symptoms; some people experience pain that is constant rather than migratory. Mind/body symptoms are about how the nervous system maintains pain through sensitised neural pathways often linked to emotional stress, personality traits, or long-held beliefs about injury and pain. Even when pain is steady, it can result from the brain’s persistent fear and vigil over a presumed “danger”. And the brain chooses to concentrate on places in one's body to give symptoms where one's more likely to believe that they are of a physical cause, like where one's had an injury in the past or to do with an activity that one wants to do... there's nothing more frustrating and thus distracting than the latter!

Constant symptoms can go...

I had pudendal neuralgia-like pain for around 2 years that was constant that made sitting absolute hell and even hurt when I was standing. It's completely gone now without medical intervention of any kind.

I had severe wrist and thumb pain in my right (dominant) hand (suspected De Quervain's tenosynovitis) that felt like a truck had run over my hand (and I'm not exaggerating!) for circa a year, which was constant. That's gone now too, without medical intervention.
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Can I ask did u do graded exposure for your sitting pain?
 
CalmIsTheCure said:
Can I ask did u do graded exposure for your sitting pain?
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No, I didn't. I carried a foam cushion around with me (one with a cut out in it to reduce the pressure on my private parts) even though Dr Sarno recommended not using any kind of aid. For me it was 'needs must' because Dr Sarno's other instruction was to get on with normal life despite the symptoms and my cushion allowed me to do that to a certain extent. I sat when I needed to using my cushion and carried on with life as best I could, despite the pudendal neuralgia-like pain. The pain was constantly bad for circa 2 years, then it very very slowly began to subside in a non-linear fashion and then one day I realised that it had gone altogether... At which point my brain had moved on to giving me other profound symptoms elsewhere in my body because it wasn't 'getting to me' with the pudendal neuralgia-like pain.

And then those new debilitating symptoms very gradually subsided; in relation to them I took a 'baby steps' approach to continue to get on with life and in so doing it enabled me to eventually overcome them too, but I wouldn't exactly call what I did as being 'graded exposure'.

I have some other symptoms that cause me discomfort with sitting on hard upright chairs, the kind you get in waiting rooms, so I've bought myself a hard folding chair and instead of sitting on a comfy chair, I am getting on with life, incorporating sitting on that chair to watch TV, to sit at a desk to type on my computer, to sit at a table to eat etc... everyday stuff. I am doing that in 'baby steps' too, gradually increasing the amount I use the chair in my life overall, but I don't time things and set myself goals with it.
 
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CalmIsTheCure said:
Thanks for the reply. I assumed you were symptom free now
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No, not completely symptom free, but very nearly. There really is no comparison with how I was suffering to how good things are for me now... and I have achieved that by baby stepping my way back to normal life. (I was bedridden for a total of around 18 months and housebound for years.)
 
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Rusty Red - Your symptoms might be constant, but do they fluctuate in intensity? Are you able to tie that to any theme or trigger or time of day etc? That might be a place to start in your investigation.
 
Mr Hip Guy said:
Rusty Red - Your symptoms might be constant, but do they fluctuate in intensity? Are you able to tie that to any theme or trigger or time of day etc? That might be a place to start in your investigation.
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Eh, sometimes they do, yeah. I know work is a big source for me but it's not something I can change (people say really think about that, but truly it's not). I'm dialing into the sources of my rage and hoping for some progress.
 
Usually it helps just recognizing it and feeling the emotions associated with it - even if there is nothing you can do about it.

Yesterday I had an epiphany about something I had not previously considered, and my current symptom had a noticeable change during that epiphany - so sometimes it's just recognizing the emotion you're feeling.
 
I am going for an MRI to make sure I don't have stress fractures in my shins before I start another training cycle. Going to tentatively try to keep running in the meantime, we'll see.
 
BloodMoon said:
No, not completely symptom free, but very nearly. There really is no comparison with how I was suffering to how good things are for me now... and I have achieved that by baby stepping my way back to normal life. (I was bedridden for a total of around 18 months and housebound for years.)
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Thats amazing. Wish I knew how
 
I feel similar. I have symptoms that have 90+ percent went away mostly all the joint pain type stuff and lower back pain and pain and numbness down my legs. What has persisted is migraines and foot drop. I feel like I’ve been working on these for a really long time with little success. The migraines I’ve had, almost daily for 14 years. The foot drop on the other hand started three months after my dad died, and a month after I found out that he had another daughter that no one knew about. I truly believe that my symptoms are linked to emotional traumatic events. My migraine started right after I gave birth to my first son, which is consequently 10 days after my mom died. I really think there’s a lot of connection there. I have done a lot of grief work. I feel like I should be further along at this point. I also Think my people pleasing personality, makes it much harder for me. I’m not sure what’s different about the back pain and leg pain and wrist, pain, and all the joint pain that I’ve had over the years. That seemed to be easier to get rid of them, the migraines in the foot drop. Maybe I just have more fear or fear based emotions. I do to wake up in the morning and do a scan to see what hurts. I think hearing about specific examples of people getting better and how they did it with your specific symptoms is easier for the brain to wrap itself around. I hope I’ll be able to find some such example. Examples with foot drop and migraines. I’ll keep searching. In the meantime, sending you love and healing!

Diana-M said:
@Rusty Red
Right there with you. Constant pain sucks. Constant symptoms—you can be so tempted to get overwhelmed and discouraged. Totally discouraged! You want to think there Must Be an answer to this! And there is. What @BloodMoon just testified to… she’s an example. If we hang in there, one day that will be us. We can overcome. Not sure why it goes on and on. And it’s so steady. But all I can think is maybe there’s something about HOW I SEE the WORLD that is contributing to my inner rage. Maybe I expect more than life can really offer? Maybe my relatives will always overwhelm me (for a ton of reasons.) Maybe I can’t make them all go away.I wonder if I’ll feel better when I sort all this out? Maybe even though I’ve done a ton of work, I just haven’t gotten to where I need to be yet? I think it’s frustrating that some people get better faster and some slower. But that’s just reality.
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Avelenarose said:
I think hearing about specific examples of people getting better and how they did it with your specific symptoms is easier for the brain to wrap itself around. I hope I’ll be able to find some such example.
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I'm sorry, but no - this is a false belief. To be blunt, this your TMS brain feeding you some top-level mind game BS.

It's also a very common misperception amongst those who find themselves stuck. What really happens is that you can spend a lifetime looking for that perfect recovery story that matches your particular combination of symptoms and their multiple manifestations - which, first of all, doesn't really exist because everyone is different. But let's say you finally find a story you think you can relate to and that will solve your problems. Your brain will let you be excited for a little bit, but it doesn't want you to be happy and relaxed. It needs you to be worried and fearful, so without your awareness, it will erode your excitement by finding reasons why the story just isn't quite exactly on target, and how there are too many differences, but that you if just search a little bit more, you're sure to find that one perfect story with the one perfect answer. So you ask more questions, read more websites and forums and posts and books... and spend a lot of energy on time-wasting and counter-productive activities, to the great relief of your TMS brain which needs to keep you on high alert and worried about your imminent demise at all times.

I'm afraid that I've seen it all too many times.

Avelenarose said:
I do to wake up in the morning and do a scan to see what hurts.
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Please, do whatever it takes to reject this habit and replace it with something constructive and useful. Your TMS brain LOVES this and is probably giving you some kind of reward for engaging in it, but in reality it is completely counterproductive and it's certainly one component of being stuck. If you ask, we can provide suggestions.

You said you've done a lot of grief work, but have you ever done the rage work? I'm talking Sarno 101, which is all about repressed rage and the inability to acknowledge negative emotions. It's what the Structured Educational Program addresses.
 
JanAtheCPA said:
But let's say you finally find a story you think you can relate to and that will solve your problems. Your brain will let you be excited for a little bit, but it doesn't want you to be happy and relaxed. It needs you to be worried and fearful, so without your awareness, it will erode your excitement by finding reasons why the story just isn't quite exactly on target, and how there are too many differences, but that you if just search a little bit more, you're sure to find that one perfect story with the one perfect answer. So you ask more questions, read more websites and forums and posts and books... and spend a lot of energy on time-wasting and counter-productive activities, to the great relief of your TMS brain which needs to keep you on high alert and worried about your imminent demise at all times.
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Yep, I used to do this. This is an avoidance tactic of the lizard brain, avoidance tactic #11 on this list of avoidance tactics that I put together the other day on another thread @Avelenarose https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/‘shooting-the-messenger’-other-ways-the-primitive-brain-avoids-doing-mind-body-work.30375/
 
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