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The Presence Process - Share Experiences & Ask Questions

Thanks for the update and questions!

When I'm in a situation like yours, I sometimes go directly to my couch and feel the emotions for a while. If it continues without integration, I may wait a few days, working with the emotions each day. If I can tell they aren't going to integrate anytime soon, I think of how I would respond if I weren't being emotionally dysfunctional about it, then I respond that way, making sure nothing emotional snuck in.

Sometimes, I just reply to the email in the nicest, most responsible way immediately after I get it, then I deal with the emotions later. It all depends on the situation. In your situation, I'd likely keep the response short and very thankful. "Thanks so much for contacting me. Here's the info you requested. Have a good day and good luck!" I don't do that to get under their skin, but I know that will get under their skin. lol Nothing I can do about that, though. If there's a way to forgive them the debt they owe me, I'd do that. Any way I can love them is what I seek to do. It doesn't always happen, of course, but generally I do a pretty good job of it. Though, I admit, it rarely happens to me. Sometimes, I've waited weeks to respond while I'm processing emotions and trying to figure out how to respond kindly. But I find that not to be the best way. The best way is to deal with it very quickly and responsibly, then deal with the emotions afterward, in my opinion anyway. But that's just me. Others may have better ideas.

Good luck with whatever you decide!
 
BrianC said:
Thanks for the update and questions!

When I'm in a situation like yours, I sometimes go directly to my couch and feel the emotions for a while. If it continues without integration, I may wait a few days, working with the emotions each day. If I can tell they aren't going to integrate anytime soon, I think of how I would respond if I weren't being emotionally dysfunctional about it, then I respond that way, making sure nothing emotional snuck in.

Sometimes, I just reply to the email in the nicest, most responsible way immediately after I get it, then I deal with the emotions later. It all depends on the situation. In your situation, I'd likely keep the response short and very thankful. "Thanks so much for contacting me. Here's the info you requested. Have a good day and good luck!" I don't do that to get under their skin, but I know that will get under their skin. lol Nothing I can do about that, though. If there's a way to forgive them the debt they owe me, I'd do that. Any way I can love them is what I seek to do. It doesn't always happen, of course, but generally I do a pretty good job of it. Though, I admit, it rarely happens to me. Sometimes, I've waited weeks to respond while I'm processing emotions and trying to figure out how to respond kindly. But I find that not to be the best way. The best way is to deal with it very quickly and responsibly, then deal with the emotions afterward, in my opinion anyway. But that's just me. Others may have better ideas.

Good luck with whatever you decide!
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Excellent advice there Brian.
 
Yes, excellent approach! Thank you Brian

I really appreciate TPP ... it happens on many levels for me and creates connection inside and with others that is good to experience. Writing the post helped me integrate some of the feelings, sort out what was happening for me around the situation and connect to my child (who dearly needs attention and to have her feelings ... and btw, is so happy I am doing TPP ;) Then, Brian your reply confirmed some inner sense of things and the comment on forgiving the debt opened me up to the idea that I believed this person "owed me" kindness and consideration and in truth she does not. That aha freed me up to accept and forgive her for being who she was and to receive she just wanted return my security deposit! Once I got that, I could simply respond with the information she asked for. Take care of the business today, and allow the connection to be what it is, and to continue "be with" the feelings ....
 
Cool!

Yeah, entitlement is a tricky one. WE grow up thinking we deserve all kinds of things but we actually deserve nothing and aren't guaranteed anything.

The "love your enemy" thing is usually one of the hardest things to do, I'd say. But its also one of the most beneficial things to do, as well. Really shocks a person into reconsidering you and the situation. For a Christian, it's probably one of the most powerful tools for showing people God's love for us. In fact, in the third and fourth centuries A.D., Christianity was under its worst persecution in history, and yet that was the time it grew the most. Christians were called the Fourth Race because they were so different than everyone else (so loving and joyful). That says something about loving your enemy (and neighbor) as yourself. Jesus knew what He was talking about. :) That's not a promotion of modern Christianity, just an example of how the teachings of the early church were followed and were extremely effective. That was also during the first 500 years of the church when almost all Christians believe everyone would eventually make it to heaven, fully rehabilitated and happy, including Satan. I agree with that assessment. :)
 
Hi Brian! (and everyone else on this thread!)

I'm so happy to have found this thread and community... I just started the Presence Process, on Week 2, and was feeling a little bit lost in it all. It really helps a great deal to hear other people's experiences, and know that I'm not alone after all. Thank you for that!

I'm not sure if my post is a question exactly - perhaps just hoping it sounds familiar to you or anyone else. I've been working on this type of thing (releasing/integrating emotions) for some time now in some form or another. Initially began with reading Michael Singer's The Untethered Soul, which seems to be talking about the same thing using slightly different language. TPP is a much more structured approach, and I tend to like structure, so I jumped in with excitement and trepidation in equal measure. :)

I've been getting comfortable with allowing uncomfortable feelings, but this past week I've just been feeling... weird. It's the best word I can think of to describe the hodge-podge of feelings arising. It's an odd combination of feeling a bit lost, lacking in motivation (I'm normally a real type A, and so 'doing nothing' is bringing up some guilt feelings), and a very strong feeling of need. Not sure what the need is, but it's just there and fairly intense. It's like when you're a kid, and you tell your mum that you're bored, and she lists off a dozen things you could do, but none of them feel 'right'. But doing nothing is equally not 'right'.

My fallback distractions aren't really working (food/sweets, movies, work), and I think that's probably a positive development, but I'm just not sure what to do while this collection of unknown feelings passes. I know loneliness is there (always seems to be an underlying theme, even when I'm surrounded by others), and perhaps I'm just afraid to really feel whatever it is that lies beneath that? It's like a loneliness for a much deeper, more meaningful connection to another/others, perhaps something I've yet to experience and so don't really know how to define. I think perhaps I am afraid that this weird and uncomfortable feeling is just sitting on top of the real underlying stuff, and nervous about what that 'stuff' might be.

Anyway, I'm hoping some of this sounds familiar, and perhaps that you'll be able to share some similar experiences or insight that might help. Also feels great just to write it down and practice some vulnerability by putting it out there. :)
 
I think UR on the right track HB...

at the risk of sounding preachy :-/

from my MIND/BODY experience-journey-training (here & elsewhere), the blob of emotions (guilt, boredom, & for me shame & deep grief were all masking or distracting me from being w/ the true uncomfortable frightening place that the LONELINESS would take me.

my visions always brought about a VAST dark empty landscape within me that I felt lost & insignificant within...

my suggestion to you -if possible- is to just be w/ all that swirling pot of Emo - to truly allow & just observe it as an energetic sensation in your body w/ NO other expectation for it than to just let it exist & flow --- for as long as it takes... (that's the hard part)

when will you know?? you'll know when you know :-) but... as ee cummings so eloquently writes '... always the more beautiful answer to he who asks the more beautiful question...'

as you sit w/ them, you will be more connected & guided to your true essence/inner wisdom where you can gently ask the right questions for your life-- what do you want me to kno? what do you want/need to do? and ALWAYS- what is the most compassionate thing I can do for myself now?

be KIND to yourself for where you are at this moment... your whole life has been leading you to be in this place of 'doing nothing' right now.. accept that - know that & find peace in that place of self love & compassion for all you are within...

good luck & thanx for the share... you are NOT alone :-)
ba


HannahBee said:
Hi Brian! (and everyone else on this thread!)

I'm so happy to have found this thread and community... I just started the Presence Process, on Week 2, and was feeling a little bit lost in it all. It really helps a great deal to hear other people's experiences, and know that I'm not alone after all. Thank you for that!

I'm not sure if my post is a question exactly - perhaps just hoping it sounds familiar to you or anyone else. I've been working on this type of thing (releasing/integrating emotions) for some time now in some form or another. Initially began with reading Michael Singer's The Untethered Soul, which seems to be talking about the same thing using slightly different language. TPP is a much more structured approach, and I tend to like structure, so I jumped in with excitement and trepidation in equal measure. :)

I've been getting comfortable with allowing uncomfortable feelings, but this past week I've just been feeling... weird. It's the best word I can think of to describe the hodge-podge of feelings arising. It's an odd combination of feeling a bit lost, lacking in motivation (I'm normally a real type A, and so 'doing nothing' is bringing up some guilt feelings), and a very strong feeling of need. Not sure what the need is, but it's just there and fairly intense. It's like when you're a kid, and you tell your mum that you're bored, and she lists off a dozen things you could do, but none of them feel 'right'. But doing nothing is equally not 'right'.

My fallback distractions aren't really working (food/sweets, movies, work), and I think that's probably a positive development, but I'm just not sure what to do while this collection of unknown feelings passes. I know loneliness is there (always seems to be an underlying theme, even when I'm surrounded by others), and perhaps I'm just afraid to really feel whatever it is that lies beneath that? It's like a loneliness for a much deeper, more meaningful connection to another/others, perhaps something I've yet to experience and so don't really know how to define. I think perhaps I am afraid that this weird and uncomfortable feeling is just sitting on top of the real underlying stuff, and nervous about what that 'stuff' might be.

Anyway, I'm hoping some of this sounds familiar, and perhaps that you'll be able to share some similar experiences or insight that might help. Also feels great just to write it down and practice some vulnerability by putting it out there. :)
Click to expand...
 
Thank you BA... that was not in the least 'preachy'. :) I think that's exactly right - just be, and be kind, with whatever this blob is (I like that... blob), and do my best to avoid distracting from it. It's difficult to do nothing, but kind of freeing at the same time. Like getting a snow day from school!

But it's your description of the empty landscape you had visions of that got my attention. That really struck a cord. I feel something akin to that when I consider the loneliness - it's not loneliness in the sense of lack of companionship per say, but rather a deeper, existential aloneness like the one you describe. I think I am afraid that, at the end of all this exploration, I'll discover that I'm truly alone, that I'm somehow not valuable enough or interesting enough to warrant some omniscient being's attention and love. I suppose that translates in this current reality as a fear/mistrust of loving, meaningful relationships too (aha! moment).

Mostly, I know that's just bull, but knowing something intellectually is nowhere close to knowing it experientially. It also brings up a small fear that asks, "if you let go of all these emotions and behaviours and beliefs, what's left? Is there no individuality beyond pure Presence?".

I suppose in that regard, I do have an expectation/hope/wish for going through the PP; to have experiential knowledge of this Presence, to have a real relationship with it, instead of just the one I think is there.

I hope I didn't just go off the deep end with all of that.

Thanks again for your encouraging and supportive reply BA!

Hannah
 
Hi, HannahBee! Thanks so much for the post. It's always great to read about other people's experiences with TPP.

Sounds like what you're experiencing is pretty normal. It's different for everyone, of course, but sounds pretty normal. :)

If I'm thinking like a psychologist, I'd say your discomfort comes from a feeling that you need to be productive to matter (to have worth) so you don't hate yourself. In other words, you don't feel that you are good enough as you are, which means you haven't yet grown into unconditionally loving yourself. So you're in good company here! lol That's the goal of TPP, as I'm sure you know, so you're right on track. :)

If I were in your position, I'd probably work on doing nothing and truly loving those emotions that come up as a result of that.

If you find yourself unable to feel love, you could maybe attempt something I'm trying right now which is garnering the feeling of unconditional love for myself and giving it to myself. Basically, I just imagine people I love unconditionally like my wife, my son, or even my dog. As I imagine them, I can feel love surface in my body, usually my chest. Before that, I relax and I give my entire body permission to relax, including every cell. I keep doing that the whole time. As the love surfaces, I try to let it spread throughout my body. Some people find it useful to picture it as a bubble that expands around them and they might give it a color, too. So I sit like that for five minutes or more, just kind of basking in my own unconditional love. I say my own, but God is Love, so I'm basking in Him/It or His love, more or less. It's amazing what that can do. In your situation, you could maybe see if you're able to apply that feeling to the feelings you're having. However, if you find that it's replacing those feelings instead of nurturing those feelings, it may not be useful. Because a big part of TPP is learning to be with those feelings and get used to them with absolutely no reactions to them except being with them unconditionally without judgment.

Either way, the practice I shared is a good one to used daily when a person is ready, because it helps them really love their self in a positive, healthy way, and tends to cure illness a lot of times, too, but that depends on the person and what they're dealing with. :)

PainfreeB's input sounded along the lines of what I'm saying, too, so I'm not sure I was able to add anything helpful to it or not.

Good luck, and I look forward to hearing more of your experiences!
 
Hannah,

Anthony De Mello talks about a practice where people go into nature alone for a long time. Days or weeks, depending. They stay long enough to where they feel horribly alone. It's awful at first. But they reach a point where they finally connect with everything around them and they find that being alone is wonderful! And they see the connection with everything else and realize they really aren't every alone even when they're by their self. So what's happening is they're detoxing from people, from the drug of acceptance and things of that nature. Then, when they return to their life, they no longer have that unhealthy need for people.

Sure, a they need people for the normal stuff like getting by in everyday life with fuel and a restaurant cooked meal and things like that, but there isn't an unhealthy need to have anyone in your life. And at that point, you actually can treat people much more sensitively (sensitive to their needs) rather than as an object you "need." All of the ways you used to act to please people that you may or may not have been aware of will show up to you and you won't need to do those things anymore.

I'm not saying to go do that, of course. You have to figure out what's best for you. I was just kind of confirming your loneliness feeling and where that comes from by giving you a picture of what it's like after you overcome that. You end up far more authentic. :)
 
Thanks Brian! Those are all excellent points... and great exercise suggestions! Funny, when you described the solitary nature thing, it sounded strangely appealing to me. I've kind of done a watered down version of that over this last two years - a sort of self-imposed exile you might call it - by moving to a very small town away from everyone and everything I knew, and deliberately spending a great deal of my time by myself (canine companion the exception). I've always been a bit of a loner in some regards, though most people who know me would not believe it. I genuinely love people, and am quite extroverted socially, but often find it emotionally draining to be around others for long periods of time, and need to be alone frequently to recharge. Mostly, I have felt comfortable with my own company, but I'm starting to wonder if that's entirely true, or if I've partly just been avoiding being truly vulnerable with others and forming real, deep connections.

Anyway, I feel I've gotten to a good place of not needing others (or most outside things like career, material possessions, physical appearance, etc. - still working on that last one) for my sense of self-worth. I can honestly look myself in the mirror and say (and feel!) I love you. I can feel it in a more global sense of loving and having immense compassion for my fellow beings (human and otherwise). But I just haven't been able to feel it for another individual, not in that very personal way. The only true desire I have now is to know what it is like to love another unconditionally.

Which is why this feeling of loneliness is somewhat confusing to me - and why it kind of freaks me out a little to think of going beyond it/beneath it. I don't think the unknown need feeling I'm having is for the company of others (I have a very social job, and one or two good friends I see regularly, and a loving family a couple of hours drive away), but perhaps for something deeper? Not sure, but I guess only time will tell.

So perhaps as you and PainFreeB have both suggested, I just need to be ok with this really uncomfortable place for as long as it takes, and face whatever is surfacing. I almost wish it would just surface in a big, scary horror show so I could rip it off like a bandaid, rather than agonize over what it could or might be.

Thanks to you both! So great to be able to discuss this type of thing with others who understand. :)

Hannah
 
HBee just a few more thots...

1) am not sure what anybody else will say but for me == ANY healing journey IS a spiritual journey. another reply here referred to going into the wilderness --as native americans have done on their 'vision quests' to seek guidance & wisdom from their spirit guides. yes== nature can help access that place but for me the journey is STILL within...

2) in reality you figuratively ARE alone. you can connect w/ community or find a tribe (which helps - see karla mcclarens book on emotions) but IMHO- you will always feel like this until;

3)that journey within heals the fractured self/soul until you feel differently about yourself - on that deeep level beyond in the wasteland ;-) (for me pain is 'not good enuff & 'broken'). you may love yourself (& other people) but do have compassion & kindness for yourself? can you truly accept yourself broken parts & all? you mentioned type A & I suspect you ARE an introvert (drained by others & the need to recharge alone/within) so they typically struggle w/ those issues as Sarno points out. this 'integration' of the self only happens thro LOTS of deep dives into nurturing self-love & self-compassion & kindness w/ no pressure to be/do anything other than that - heal. you cannot force it or hurry it along. you cannot have a timeline or expectation or be impatient.

4)trauma lives in the body & we are disconnected from feeling that (see peter levines work). our mind/thots distract us from the physical pain of whatever emotions ly beneath... if you are to do this I would say get out of your head (as much as possible) & into you body/emos in whatever ways allow you to LIVE there most often for the duration of this ride....

it's taken me 4 yrs since starting down this path and I've felt all the frustrations/thots you are/will? but I can honestly say now, I feel better than I ever have in recent memory. it didn't just hit me... it snuck up on me :-)

good luck on your 'vision quest'
ba

HannahBee said:
Thank you BA... that was not in the least 'preachy'. :) I think that's exactly right - just be, and be kind, with whatever this blob is (I like that... blob), and do my best to avoid distracting from it. It's difficult to do nothing, but kind of freeing at the same time. Like getting a snow day from school!

But it's your description of the empty landscape you had visions of that got my attention. That really struck a cord. I feel something akin to that when I consider the loneliness - it's not loneliness in the sense of lack of companionship per say, but rather a deeper, existential aloneness like the one you describe. I think I am afraid that, at the end of all this exploration, I'll discover that I'm truly alone, that I'm somehow not valuable enough or interesting enough to warrant some omniscient being's attention and love. I suppose that translates in this current reality as a fear/mistrust of loving, meaningful relationships too (aha! moment).

Mostly, I know that's just bull, but knowing something intellectually is nowhere close to knowing it experientially. It also brings up a small fear that asks, "if you let go of all these emotions and behaviours and beliefs, what's left? Is there no individuality beyond pure Presence?".

I suppose in that regard, I do have an expectation/hope/wish for going through the PP; to have experiential knowledge of this Presence, to have a real relationship with it, instead of just the one I think is there.

I hope I didn't just go off the deep end with all of that.

Thanks again for your encouraging and supportive reply BA!

Hannah
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Awesome (sorry... very over-and-improperly-used term, but that's what came to mind) insights, BA! They all hit home, and ring true... :)

I think you are precisely right - perhaps I've learned to love and accept myself much more than that awful time of self-rejection most of us go through as younger individuals, but getting to the point of truly and fully accepting oneself as one currently is, broken/ugly bits and all, is a deeper journey, and perhaps one I have not yet made on all levels.

And the getting into the body and emotions and out of my head as much as possible resonates. Funny, because today in the midst of feeling so weird and disconnected and confused, the only thing that really brought relief (other than this conversation!) was doing yoga.

So nice to hear that your 'quest' has been worthwhile - I feel certain that mine will be also. Even amidst the confusing emotions, I feel so sure that this is the logical and perfect path for me at this time (inward and onward).

I'm very grateful for the time and effort you took to share these things with me BA - thanks for listening and responding! If it's ok, I'd like to pop back in every now and then to check in if things get weird(er)... I hope you'll be around! :)

Hannah
 
BrianC said:
Anthony De Mello talks about a practice where people go into nature alone for a long time. Days or weeks, depending. They stay long enough to where they feel horribly alone. It's awful at first. But they reach a point where they finally connect with everything around them and they find that being alone is wonderful! And they see the connection with everything else and realize they really aren't every alone even when they're by their self. So what's happening is they're detoxing from people, from the drug of acceptance and things of that nature. Then, when they return to their life, they no longer have that unhealthy need for people.
Click to expand...

Brian, this sounds very much like the 3-day fasting solo experience near the end of a 26-day Outward Bound wilderness trip. For 20 days or so, the group (which can range from 16 to 25 members) engage in group dynamics while hiking hundred of miles. Then, each member goes out for a "solo" where they don't have any food. All they have is a notebook to record their necessarily private thoughts. At the end of the 3-days, the soloist come together in the group again and have a meeting where they discuss what being alone has taught them followed by a sweat lodge session. Because they don't have sleeping bags, the situation is closely monitored of course. But it's usually high summer and nights aren't that bad. Adolescents are natural people addicts, so the experience is rather hard on them but can be profound too. Sometimes they actually do learn a lot about themselves.
 
Checking out Peter Levine's work - any recommendations of a good one to start with?

painfreeB said:
HBee just a few more thots...

4)trauma lives in the body & we are disconnected from feeling that (see peter levines work). our mind/thots distract us from the physical pain of whatever emotions ly beneath... if you are to do this I would say get out of your head (as much as possible) & into you body/emos in whatever ways allow you to LIVE there most often for the duration of this ride....


ba
Click to expand...
 
Great, Hannah!

Yeah, it's hard to know exactly why we feel what we feel. Sometimes I'm right about the reason for my emotions and sometimes I'm way off. lol

Loving one's self is one things, but there's the balance of also loving someone else unconditionally like you're curious about. Loving others unconditionally should be a natural byproduct of loving one's self. But honestly, I think you're on yo something when you mention that you're alone in a self-imposed solitary position. You said you have a lot of pets, too, I think. Usually, people who've been through abuse at a young age don't like being around others too long (creates anxiety) and often bond with pets more than people because pets are safe--pets won't leave or hurt their owner usually. I'm not saying you were abused or anything like that, just pointing out that parts of your behavior seem similar to an abuse victim, so you might explore that and see if there is something hat really hurt you that you could heal eventually. Having a mate can help things like that surface, and not in a pretty way. LOL But it is helpful if we deal with it in a healthy way. :)

Some of the things you described were a little differently described than what I described, so who knows how close the behaviors are. I'm not asking you to explore anything private in public here. And heck, you may not have anything in you past like I described. I just want to make sure you don't feel like you were just accused of something due to my statement in this post. I'm merely trying to give you ideas to explore if you think they sound useful, but my guess is that you already know what you need to explore. You sound very self-aware.

Thanks so much for sharing so openly!

HannahBee said:
Thanks Brian! Those are all excellent points... and great exercise suggestions! Funny, when you described the solitary nature thing, it sounded strangely appealing to me. I've kind of done a watered down version of that over this last two years - a sort of self-imposed exile you might call it - by moving to a very small town away from everyone and everything I knew, and deliberately spending a great deal of my time by myself (canine companion the exception). I've always been a bit of a loner in some regards, though most people who know me would not believe it. I genuinely love people, and am quite extroverted socially, but often find it emotionally draining to be around others for long periods of time, and need to be alone frequently to recharge. Mostly, I have felt comfortable with my own company, but I'm starting to wonder if that's entirely true, or if I've partly just been avoiding being truly vulnerable with others and forming real, deep connections.

Anyway, I feel I've gotten to a good place of not needing others (or most outside things like career, material possessions, physical appearance, etc. - still working on that last one) for my sense of self-worth. I can honestly look myself in the mirror and say (and feel!) I love you. I can feel it in a more global sense of loving and having immense compassion for my fellow beings (human and otherwise). But I just haven't been able to feel it for another individual, not in that very personal way. The only true desire I have now is to know what it is like to love another unconditionally.

Which is why this feeling of loneliness is somewhat confusing to me - and why it kind of freaks me out a little to think of going beyond it/beneath it. I don't think the unknown need feeling I'm having is for the company of others (I have a very social job, and one or two good friends I see regularly, and a loving family a couple of hours drive away), but perhaps for something deeper? Not sure, but I guess only time will tell.

So perhaps as you and PainFreeB have both suggested, I just need to be ok with this really uncomfortable place for as long as it takes, and face whatever is surfacing. I almost wish it would just surface in a big, scary horror show so I could rip it off like a bandaid, rather than agonize over what it could or might be.

Thanks to you both! So great to be able to discuss this type of thing with others who understand. :)

Hannah
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