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Day 26 the last conversation w/ parents

Discussion in 'Structured Educational Program' started by Lizzy, Apr 7, 2015.

  1. Lizzy

    Lizzy Well known member

    The last time I spoke to my parents was October 10, 2012. I called them and asked to speak to both of them. I told them that I was no longer going to keep quiet anymore when I didn't like the way my dad was treating someone. I was going to speak up. My dad said he didn't know what I could be referring to and asked if my mom knew. She said she didn't. Then they made clear I wasn't "allowed" to speak up. I said, "I guess there isn't anything else to say, except this makes me very sad, good bye".

    Thankfully all of my extended family has been supportive, including my aunts and uncles.

    I have not seen or spoken to them since. This has been a much bigger relief than I ever thought it could be. The fact that it is better this way is very sad.
     
  2. Walt Oleksy

    Walt Oleksy Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Lizzy. It seems to me that your parents are in denial about the issue.
    Let it be. We rarely ever really get to have a meaningful conversation with our parents, or anyone.
    I told the mother of one of my best friends, a very nice guy but a stoic, that I never was able to have
    a meaningful conversation with him. He said she was his moth but never had one with him.

    Some people just don't want to converse on a meaningful level. Your parents must have their own personal
    reasons for not wanting to discuss what you want it. It's too bad, because an open conversation would
    probably help all three of you.

    It may yet happen, when your mother or father feels up to it.

    Meanwhile, feel good in that you made the effort. You tossed the ball to them and they tossed it back.
    For you, the important thing is you tossed the ball.
     
  3. Lizzy

    Lizzy Well known member

    Thank you Walt, I think you're right, my parents are like many who don't want to look to closely at emotional things. I believe we would benifit from a real conversation, and maybe someday we'll have one.

    Like your friend's mom, my aunt says she has never had a meaningful talk with her sister, my mom. They talk often, but about shallow things.

    I know my mom has TMS: migraines, anxiety etc. I think my dad may. Thank you again!
    Lizzy
     
  4. Peggy

    Peggy Well known member

    Hi Lizzy:

    I admire your courage. Not everyone can say they have that much strength to stick to what feels right for them. I agree that letting go of relationships is very sad. I feel there is a great deal to learn in that letting go.
     
  5. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Lizzy,
    Thanks for your inspiring post about individuating from unhealthy relationships. To me, this takes so much courage, and yet it is what is called for down deep. More truth, more reality, more freedom, more real relationship!
    Andy B.
     
  6. Lizzy

    Lizzy Well known member

    Peggy and Andy,
    Wow.... your words are so humbling. I mean that in the most positive way. Softened, touched, exposed and accepted. It feels amazing. Before I answered, I sat with it a minute. There is sadness there. The sadness of a daughter who was vulnerable and is vulnerable, but doesn't want to be. But, that wall separates me from others too, but I really didn't "get" that until I read your posts and felt you breach the wall.

    Walt, your comments have a deeper meaning in this moment of deeper listening. I think I am seeing a bit of "being present".

    A heart felt thank you, Lizzy
     
    Peggy likes this.
  7. Walt Oleksy

    Walt Oleksy Beloved Grand Eagle

    Letting go when a relationship sours is so important, but often hard to do.
    A new friend is having a lot of trouble letting go after a boyfriend of about four years whom
    she deeply loved dumped her for another girl. She has fallen into depression and I am urging her to
    look at the TMSWiki web site to learn about TMS. Somehow, she has to forgive him and his new
    girlfriend and get on with her life by living in the present, not the past.
     
  8. Ann s is

    Ann s is New Member

    Lizzy: I think that I know what you are talking about, but here is my take on a similar issue that I have had. My son in law feels very free to intercede between me and anyone else, a waiter or a family member when I confront the waiter or family member. My son in law evidently confuses me confronting someone's bad behavior towards me as being a jerk to them, which is not the case. I have a right and obligation to stand up for myself and call a waiter on bad service or others on mistreatment of me--albeit in a calm and respectful manner. Regardless, I don't think that it is any of his business how I interact with other adults. If THEY have a problem with it, that is for them to tell me, not him. If I were being nasty to him, then he has a right to confront me. Or, if it concerns underaged children or others who need protection, then he would be right to step in if I were being abusive. But that is not the case. He just feels free to censure me because he thinks confrontation is abuse, which it is not and that it is his job to protect others, which, again, is not his responsibility.

    But, I assume that your father's mistreatment of others is, first of all, actual mistreatment and second of all involves adults other than you. I am going to ask some pointed questions next, please forgive me, but here goes: If that is so, why is that your concern? Why don't the others say something in their own behalf? Does it just make you uncomfortable? Or judgmental? If it were me and I wanted to address the issue, I would do it at the time it occurred, which is difficult, but better. For example, if your dad said, "Gwendolyn! You're an idiot!" to my aunt at Christmas I would say, "Dad, I really don't like it when you call people names like that because it upsets me." (When you do such and such, then I feel like so and so, not, "Dad, you have no right to say tha to Aunt Gwen!") He might come back with some excuse or defense, but just say it again and again until he shuts up. He really cannot argue with how his behavior makes you FEEL. It might not change his behavior, but it would call him on his crap and you would say how you feel. It might encourage Gwendolyn to call him on it also, and not put up with it. And the whole rest of the group! Lead the way! They seem to be in agreement with you. I think this would allow you to stay in the relationship on your terms. If you are relieved to let this relationship go, then maybe you should. But as for me, I always see, first, if I can have the relationship on my terms, both respecting "Dad" and myself, saying how the other person makes me feel (which I have a right to feel and to say), and reserve a complete cutoff from the relationship because I decided to do it, not because I left up to them.

    Good luck with this! I know it is a knotty problem. I hope you can have peace about whatever you do, and I wish you the best! Honor yourself however you can and however you have to do it!
     
  9. Lizzy

    Lizzy Well known member

    Walt, I hope your friend looks at this wonderful tmswiki, and that she feels better soon.

    Ann, thank you for your comments and questions, its good you asked and for me to think about my answers. First I want to say I agree with you from beginning to end. So, I will have to give more info.

    My dad, in my opinion is a rage-aholic, and he loves what he thinks of as a good verbal fight. His ranting and raving knows some, but few bounds. His mother died 4 yrs ago, and untill that time her children and their families came from out of state to visit her. I live in the same state, but a good distance away. Everyone adored my grandma and she adored my dad. Seeing him was the price we paid to see grandma. The same with my mom, I made as many plans with her alone as I could get away with, but in the end, if I wanted to see her, I had to see him. So, when my dad would start a rant about something with someone, sometimes they spoke up, sometimes he was ignored. He can argue about someones feelings and 4 hours is about the longest anyone has tested if he would ever give up and shut up. His great pleasure was to get someone to lose thir temper, his eyes would positively glow. Once when I lost my temper with him he called me the next day to compliment me on it. I know this is all sorts of messed up, but I admit I can see that more clearly since I stopped seeing him. The long rants didn't happen everytime. So, alot of the time we all did our best to go along to get along. This was our choice.

    When my grandma died, my uncle, aunt, cousins and their families stopped coming to town. My dad's brother keeps in touch with my dad by occational email. My brother and I see them still.

    Three years ago my mom left my dad and filed for divorce. My mom had never really defended herself with him, everything was, yes Johnny, yes I agree Johnny. When we were growing up and he would berate us for hours, those are the only words I remember her saying, except when he asked her opinion she would say, I don't know. After five months, the divorce was final. She went back. My brother told her he didn't think he could see my dad again. She told him they were a package deal. The next day he terminated the relationship. I took a couple of weeks more to decide. As I told my family, I had given him a "pass" for my grandma and mom's sake, but I was revoking it.

    The conversation, I admit was a set up. Unlike my brother I felt to guilty to just say I am not seeing dad anymore. So, I knew what I was going to say wouldn't be acceptable. Other than children, who are ignored by my dad, everyone is capable and sometimes chose to engage with him. My mother's family has never chosen to be around him, and he hasn't one friend. My mom did say, once, it is his own fault. My only regret is I didn't do it 30 years ago when I moved out.

    This is a long post, but I could write a book on more details. This seems like enough. I do thank you, this post is theaputic. I find I feel very little when I journal about my dad, but when I post the emotions come up.

    Lizzy
     
  10. Ann s is

    Ann s is New Member

    Lizzie: Sorry that I did not know the whole story. Sounds like this is a lot more to deal with than what I was describing and ascribing. Sometimes it is appropriate to just give up and move on, and the only thing you can do, really, for your own sanity and well-being and to pick the healthiest option, sad as it may be. My son was causing a lot of trouble and upset, but despite best efforts over many years and professional help, he just had to go. A therapist said that he sounded like a sociopath. They refuse to accept personal responsibility for their behavior, and blame everyone else for everything. Better off without one of those around! Sounds like you are making progress so keep up the good work and if this forum helps, I am glad for you! I know how difficult it is to give up, especially with a child or a parent. Hope you never let someone else make you feel guilty over it; likely somebody will try!
     
  11. Lizzy

    Lizzy Well known member

    Oh, Ann, there's that soft feeling again, I am giving you a hug. I am sorry you had to ask before you knew the story. It is hard to make these kinds of decisions. You have my sympathy about your son. My brother and I have wondered what a professional would say about our dad. Even when I was in counseling years ago, my therapist could only work with what I said, and at that time I only wanted to cope, not get better. Well, make me a little better, so I can cope! This forum is a huge help. This stuff is so big. Thanks again!
     

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