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Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Callum bosua, Jul 9, 2022.

  1. Callum bosua

    Callum bosua Peer Supporter

    I've been struggling with tendonitis and nerve problems in both arms for 2 years. I'm only 20 but at the time of onset was gaming with a terrible position and playing lots of drums and piano.

    I find it extremely frustrating that throughout this forum the views on rsi and tendonitis are contradictory to each other. Some say they are both tms, some say rsi is and tendonitis isn't, some say vice versa, some say both are physical conditions. A lot of people also say stuff like "don't listen to doctors but get it checked out to make sure it's nothing serious". Like, how can I do one without the other lol, how can I get it checked out and when the doctor confidently says you have tendonitis, ignore them. What's the point of this?

    I have heaps of trigger points, physio says my tendons are "crunchy", tight, weak, micro traumatised, cupping shows "stagnant blood", etc.

    Can tms cause these very strong indicators of physical issue.

    I have been doing physio for 7 months and it has helped but as soon as I start doing the things I used to do all that progress seems to disappear.

    I also haven't experienced the symptom imperative and am weaker in grip strength than normal.

    I have an anxiety disorder and would not be surprised if this is tms, but the inconsistent views on rsi with so many saying completely different things makes me wonder if this is just too dangerous to follow given the general cencus that rsi must be carefully managed.
    At a loss, at my wits end, just wanna play in my old bands and make music.

    Sorry for the bitterness but my "prime" has been dominated by incapacity and pain.
  2. mbo

    mbo Well known member

    In my humble opinion "chronic tendonitis" is an OXYMORON (contradictory terms) and RSI (repetitive strain injury) should be renamed RSP (repetitive stress pain), both common manifestations of TMS. Yes, both very painful and intimidating, but not derivated from that occours in your body ....
    but from that occours in your life !
    Booble and Callum bosua like this.
  3. Callum bosua

    Callum bosua Peer Supporter

    Oxymoron as in tendonitis in essence is a temporary overuse and chronic contradicts that?

    I know I'm not gonna get any real closure but I would love a tms therapist to answer my post.

    I hate being in Australia we have NO doctors whose willing to a tms based approach. My physio told me that it's possible for pain to be psychosomatic but mine isn't cuz she can feel my "gnarly" tendons. Honestly this didn't make sense since I'm a skinny guy and you can feel anything with enough pressure. Plus I felt my friend's arm who rock climbs and his were rock hard as well. Excuse the pun ;)
  4. Dorado

    Dorado Beloved Grand Eagle

    Acute tendonitis can be structural (but not always - sometimes certain tendonitis symptoms occur without any real injury). The body heals from this temporary condition when treated.

    Chronic tendonitis that doesn’t go away after acute tendonitis properly is treated = TMS!

    You’ve gone through treatment - for quite some time. That’s absolutely a TMS red flag.

    It sounds like you’re having difficulty believing this could be TMS because your physio thinks it’s structural, but you also say her reasoning doesn’t make total sense. I’m also pretty thin and completely understand being able to feel bones, muscles, etc. when prodded. I’m no physio, but that sounds valid and I know what you mean. Have you brought this up and asked her about it?

    It is important to get medically vetted. However, we know that some diagnoses are TMS - chronic Lyme disease after the appropriate antibiotics are taken, fibromyalgia, etc. Chronic tendonitis has been identified by John Sarno, Howard Schubiner, Steve Ozanich, and other mind-body experts as TMS.

    Ask yourself: what was going on in your life when this started? How are you managing your anxiety today?
  5. Cactusflower

    Cactusflower Beloved Grand Eagle

    There are people who deal with TMS in Australia. Rose Hoey is an ISDPT therapist and nurse, she specializes in mind body connection.

    You have done a lot with your hands and arms, perhaps you also hold emotional tension in those places? TMS screams for our attention and it often settles into places we use the most to make sure we pay it heed.
  6. Dorado

    Dorado Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is a fantastic point - and also why it’s highly suspicious that tendonitis wouldn’t improve after seven months of treatment with a physio. Tendonitis shouldn’t take seven months to improve after overuse. And in general I question many “overuse” injuries related to gaming, typing playing instruments, etc.
  7. Callum bosua

    Callum bosua Peer Supporter

    I've asked her what it means and she usually says it's just the result of micro trauma that causes the tendons to tighten up. Thanks so much for these answers!

    I definitely used to use my hands for everything, and was always confused as to how someone so young and pretty healthy (there were periods like in covid where I didn't do much ill admit ) could get such a persistent and intense problem from such small actions (gaming, drumming, piano) BTW I've been working out for seven months (physio guidance) barely used computers in that time and for work I walk 15km each shift so there should definitely be enough blood flowing to heal anything. Im not that strong for my size but can do more than average.

    Last night I made music on my laptop for 4 hours and, it was painful, but wasn't as bad. Which is cool!

    Something that bugs me is I read on here that tms techniques can change the way we interpret pain but not change the physical cause thats providing it. They said this means you can keep damaging it by "ignoring" your body's messages through tms techniques. I know this person is probably just inexperienced with tms but I hate how easy their opinion sticks to my mind.

    Has anyone heard of rsi/tendonitis/nerve pain being treated as tms and it being unsuccessful? Even after they did all the right things?

    I hope that question is not coming from my subconscious if you know what I mean.
  8. learningmore

    learningmore Peer Supporter

    Tendonitis is a damage in the structure of tendons.

    It is not in your head.

    "Resting" tendonitis doesn't work. Think of a rope that is frayed. If you put the rope in a drawer while it is frayed and let it rest, will it be better in a month when you check?

    Tendons obtain very little bloodflow and so need heaps of time to heal.

    I have had tendonitis multiple times and each time it took months of physical therapy to heal. Did I have a lot of stress at that time? Yes. Still, that may have been a cause, but tendonitis is a physical problem, not an emotional one.

    I strongly suspect that folks who think their tendonitis is TMS did not actually have tendonitis.

    Tendons need activity to heal. Like, don't go crazy doing the thing that hurts. That's the wrong way to do it. If it hurts you're doing it wrong. Specific exercises is key.

    I would recommend looking into weighted eccentrics.
  9. Callum bosua

    Callum bosua Peer Supporter

    Ive seen you on this forum before @learningmore, reciting orthodox physical therapy techniques we've all heard before; instilling fear in those who know no better. "people who think their tendonitis is TMS did not actually have tendonitis", so the symptoms and diagnosis of tendonitis made by the medical professionals you trust so much, that many here have recovered from using TMS techniques (btw ive made progress myself since my last post), was not tendonitis? But if you have the same symptoms and diagnosis of tendonitis as these people EXCEPT you believe it is "real tendonitis" like you do, it is suddenly a purely physical and long lasting/permanent condition? Sounds like TMS theory lol, and here I thought you were a non-believer XD. Either you're taking the piss, deluded by western medicine or just so wracked with anxiety surrounding your own pain that your brain refuses TMS and makes up illogical and impossible explanations like what youve just said and said on other posts. "I would recommend looking into weighted eccentrics" Thank you! I will research the thing I've been doing every two days for the last 8 months to make sure it's still the same old exercise.
    I have felt better in the last two months than I have in three years, my friend. The fact that you've had tendonitis multiple times (I assume in different places) and just your whole vibe and negativity is such a red flag, I honestly feel terrible for you. I really hope you find some inner peace that allows you to stop trying to bring others into your nihilistic mindset that justifies your own negative emotions. If you want some nice evidence to counteract your "proffesionals" read this
    If you dont even bother to read counter evidence with an open mind then how can you spout anything as if you know it is 100% true.
  10. Booble

    Booble Well known member

    I'd look at this way--- your hands hurting isn't going to kill you. It's not like if the doctor said you have (__fill-in-the-blank-with-deadly-disease___) and you ignore it to see if you can TMS it away.

    Why not forget trying to figure out if it IS or if it ISN'T and just go with it?

    Stop studying up on tendonitis, stop feeling around for what feels "gnarly" and definitely stop researching on "stagnant blood and cupping" (which is just made up crap anyway.) Basically, stop trying to figure it all out. Those of us with anxiety have created a habit of checking, studying, researching, checking and work ourselves into perpetual fear. You are young. You can learn the lesson now. Our bodies take care of themselves without our conscious effort. Our conscious effort gets in the way.

    So forget whether it IS or it ISN'T and start working on the emotions. This started when you were 18. That's a tricky time of life. We're moving from childhood and being cared for to adulthood and caring for ourselves. It's the time when we have to set our life's course. All kinds of unconscious patterns from when we were little can play tricks on us. Maybe a parent, a sibling or a bully made you feel not good enough. Maybe it was traumatizing to your little self when someone yelled at you. Maybe you felt guilty about something you did or didn't do. Maybe a million things. If you take all that energy you've been spending on trying to figure out -- is it tendonitis -- is it structural -- do I have a blood problem -- etc etc etc -- and instead spend that energy on uncovering your emotions you are going to start to release and things are going to start to feel better.
    What do you have to lose?
  11. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is clearly coming from someone who doesn't understand the fact (it is scientific fact) that pain - all pain, and all forms of physical sensation - are created in the brain. These are typically created upon receipt of a "danger signal" (the scientific neuro description is too complex for me to remember) from nerves located at the site of injury or illness. Physical sensations are also, via the mechanism that Dr Sarno decided to label TMS, known to be created purely in response to emotional stimuli. Blushing and nervous stomach are the two most obvious examples accepted by EVERYONE even if they've never heard about or don't "believe" in the concept of what we call TMS. Another essential example is phantom limb pain, finally widely accepted as so-called "real" pain by the wider medical community

    It's all real pain, because it all comes from the same place - the brain.

    You have said more than once that it makes no sense for someone of your age and health to be so disabled without an obvious source of traumatic physical injury. From my viewpoint of 71 years, I agree with you 100%, and advise you to make that your mantra. Your goal is to make your subconscious fearful primitive brain believe this as well, unreservedly, until it becomes automatic to go there instead of going to doubt and fear.

    And don't get hung up on semantics and terminology, for crying out loud. For one thing, it really doesn't matter, but the main thing is that obsessing about terminology is just another way for your fearful brain to trick you into thinking you're accomplishing something, when in fact the only result is that you're getting stuck. That's exactly where your fear brain wants you to be. Don't be fooled.

    Injuries are the result of obvious physical trauma, and the physical will heal. Like phantom limb pain, TMS-based symptoms can continue after a physical trauma, or they can occur where you are already worried about physical stress, or they can occur out of nowhere as the result of emotional pain or trauma. Everyone's experience is unique, and can be a combination of any of these factors.

    The good news is that you're already seeing proof that thinking psychologically does work, so keep at it, and don't let your fearful brain sidetrack you. You can do this.
    Callum bosua, Duggit and Booble like this.
  12. Booble

    Booble Well known member

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  13. Callum bosua

    Callum bosua Peer Supporter

    Thank you for your response it was enlightening and comforting. I've been journalling a lot recently but have begun to dislike it. I know it's my brain willing me not to go to those dark places in my mind but it feels as though I also can't process things. Like even when I write or journal I don't feel anything but sometimes it hits me so hard and I just want a consistent processing because I know they affect me. I hope this makes sense. Journalling techniques to process past experiences?
  14. Booble

    Booble Well known member

    I hear you and understand.
    You'll see a post from me here not too long ago. It was my second day of writing about emotions and I had tried to start, per TMS info, on 'I am angry about -----." I did't really think I was angry about anything but I figured I'd try. I wrote down three "I'm angy about ____"s and then my heart started beating wildly. Fast and irregular. I immediately stopped. It was so bad I actually said out loud to myself, "I rather have my symptoms than this."

    The next day I decided to not follow any particular writing assignments and simply write whatever I felt like. I can't remember exactly what I wrote but I think I might have started with something like, "That was weird" referring to the previous day's writing thing.
    From the day forward I just sit with pen and e-paper and write anything I feel like. Sometimes I'll write about my growing up, sometimes I'll write about current, sometimes I speak to "little Booble" and ask questions and let my younger self respond. (I know, it's weird.) But the point being just having pen in hand and writing anything helps.
    My symptoms have stopped, my endless searching on the Internet has stopped, my 10x a day checking my pulse oximeter has stopped. Literally the only thing that I've done is watch a few Sarno videos, make sense of the concept, and write with pen (not typing) every day. And now I sometimes skip a few days here and there. If I start to feel symptoms or start getting the urge to think about symptoms I make sure I write (about other stuff, not the symptoms) instead.
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  15. Callum bosua

    Callum bosua Peer Supporter

    I've definitely felt myself get carried away by emotions before but the concious searching for problems feels as though I'm not actually going to the subconscious where my problems reside. As in, if I right about anything I like I won't write about my problems because I don't like to haha. But if I force myself to write about problems I am conciously doing it and not feeling properly. I think I've been so conditioned from childhood to not show emotion because it was manipulated as soon as I did. Tough one but I think I will get there in time, how could I not with this beautiful group of people here to support the process (you guys!)
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  16. Booble

    Booble Well known member

    Right -- definitely don't have to nor should you necessarily search for problems.

    Why don't you write a little more about what you just wrote above. Take your paper and and pen and start writing something like:
    "I've been so conditioned from childhood to not show emotions. If I ever did it was manipulated. Like that one time that ______________."


    "It sucks that I can't get to my emotions. _________."


    "I think I hide my emotions because of what so-and-so did to me. ___________."


    "Hey, Emotions, are you in there? Little Calum, are you scared? " And then if you feel a little voice in you from little Callum, write it down whatever it says. It might feel like, "YES! I'm Scared. I'm Terrified. ________. Why is ____ doing that? I'm so scared!"

    Nobody is going to see any of this. So don't worry about it.
    The shit that comes out of my brain is cray cray sometimes but nobody has to see it but me. (And although I don't delete it, I don't dare to go back and read any previous day's writing.)
    Also, note that if weird stuff comes out during a writing, it always leads to positive, upbeat stuff after. So I can go from some inner feeling of berating myself (which feels like a multiple personality inside of me like Sybill) to explaining, soothing, caring and feeling good.

    I'm sure I come across like a nutter when write these posts but I swear I'm not.
    Well, that's probably not true. All humans are a little nuts, eh?

    I'm oversharing in hopes that it helps someone else.
  17. Callum bosua

    Callum bosua Peer Supporter

    Yes haha it definitely helps and I definitely think we are all a bit Cray Cray on this forum, that's why we're here right? I think by "searching for problems" I am missing the door inside. I used one of the prompts you suggested and it was like a rope unravelling my brain found its way to some emotion. I'm going to do some research on more prompts, my brain needs a bit of encouragement.
  18. Booble

    Booble Well known member

    It's fun when the brain unravels onto the paper...... :)

    I think you know what I'm going to say but I'll say it anyways. Don't bother with researching for prompts. That's just your brain looking for more delays.
    Get your pen...Sit down...or lay down....and write!
    Callum bosua likes this.
  19. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    AKA: This is your brain on TMS :p
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