Symptoms as Signs and Messengers?

zclesa

zclesa

Well known member
Has anyone realised that their symptoms were sometimes a Body Says No type of thing? My symptoms get a lot better when I am enjoying myself. They tend to get better when I am with people I like. They get better when I am doing something meaningful.

I just went abroad for 3 weeks to volunteer at a cat sanctuary. It was a lot of physical work and there was a great team of people there and I loved being with animals. My symptoms were reduced to intense leg cramps at night, a bit of blurry vision when reading, and some specific PTSD reactions, which were manageable. At home, I have TMJ, constant tension headache, dizziness, brain fog, tinnitus and a lot more. But, that all went away. It seems like my nervous system dialled down A LOT. I cried when I had to leave because I loved it so much there and didn't want to leave one particular cat.

I came back home a few days ago and now I have had fibro-type pain and extreme fatigue. Back home, I am officially "off sick", but I volunteer for a group, which I used to love but that has now turned into something I don't really enjoy as all the responsibility for it has gradually landed on me.

I used to feel good at that group, and it was a positive and meaningful thing for me, but now I feel like I am largely unsupported and doing all the work of running it. On the way there after coming home, the dizziness was intense, and the day after, my whole body ached.

This is a pattern for me. In the past, I stayed at a job where we were left unsupported as a team. Everyone else slowly jumped ship while I took up the slack and was left with all the work. People only noticed how much I was doing when I eventually had to leave.

I think feeling unsupported and picking up the pieces and slack and carrying things by myself is a lifelong thing that goes back to childhood. So, it is probably a big trigger.

Are some of the symptoms maybe to be respected? Like I suspect my body might be saying, I don't want to do this anymore because I haven't said it yet?

Of course, I only feel mildly annoyed and disappointed at other people who have left me to carry everything, but I am sure I am raging about it inside and probably raging at myself for doing something I don't really want to do anymore but feel obliged to through guilt, obligation, and not wanting to let others down.

At the sanctuary, it was rewarding because we all shared the work and had fun. Here, it feels like I'm doing it all and there is little reward.

Has anyone had a similar experience of realising that symptoms in specific situations were an important message NOT to do things?

I also think, at home, especially during winter, I don't do enough things I enjoy to balance out the rage-inducing stuff. I hate the weather and I am stuck in a tiny apartment and I don't have money and I find all of this draining on top of dealing with symptoms. More rage-inducers. When I was away, I also had better weather, more space and leisure time, the love of animals, and good people around. A lot of soothers compared to my life here.
 
Do you keep in touch with people from this sanctuary team and staff? The memories and stories might be a great soothing exercise, and I think you can benefit from it when doing visualizations.

About your question, oh yes, the company of friends and nice activities usually reduces my symptoms a good amount. But sometimes it backfires... there was this barbecue my friends were having and I really didn't feel like staying there. So my leg started aching more and more, and only reduced when I got back home.

You said during winter there's not much you can do indoors that you like. How about searching for new hobbies on Pinterest or other places. I've always wanted to learn classical music, so I bought a keyboard and when I'm learning the symptoms either go down or don't annoy me at all.
 
So does that mean people need to uproot their ordinary life to live the "vacational" (expats, trips to do something you like etc.) life to remove symptoms? Or when the "vacational" life becomes the "ordinary" life again, could symptoms return and something new needs to be searched ?
 
zclesa said:
Has anyone had a similar experience of realising that symptoms in specific situations were an important message NOT to do things?
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I personally feel like all of my symptoms are for that reason. A long time ago, before I knew about Sarno, I used to have a saying: “If you don’t say ‘no,’ your body will.”
 
feduccini said:
Do you keep in touch with people from this sanctuary team and staff? The memories and stories might be a great soothing exercise, and I think you can benefit from it when doing visualizations.

About your question, oh yes, the company of friends and nice activities usually reduces my symptoms a good amount. But sometimes it backfires... there was this barbecue my friends were having and I really didn't feel like staying there. So my leg started aching more and more, and only reduced when I got back home.

You said during winter there's not much you can do indoors that you like. How about searching for new hobbies on Pinterest or other places. I've always wanted to learn classical music, so I bought a keyboard and when I'm learning the symptoms either go down or don't annoy me at all.
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I do keep in touch and I've just put in to adopt one of the cats! :)
 
louaci said:
So does that mean people need to uproot their ordinary life to live the "vacational" (expats, trips to do something you like etc.) life to remove symptoms? Or when the "vacational" life becomes the "ordinary" life again, could symptoms return and something new needs to be searched ?
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No, I don't think you need to uproot your life, But there needs to be a rage/soothe ratio. If you're working hard or doing things you don't like or have tough stuff in life going on, you need to schedule time for relaxation, joy etc.

It is also not *just that*. I am working through PTSD symptoms and unhelpful beliefs and behaviours from trauma as well. Some people will need to change their thought patterns and how they look at life as well. It's slightly different for everyone. What do you think got your nervous system all revved up in the first place?
 
Diana-M said:
I personally feel like all of my symptoms are for that reason. A long time ago, before I knew about Sarno, I used to have a saying: “If you don’t say ‘no,’ your body will.”
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Thanks, Diana. It's helpful to know you also relate to this.

Some of us were trained in childhood to put our own needs last. I certainly was. None of my wants, needs, or feelings were considered as a child. I was very much shamed and guilted for existing. The only way to survive was to appease the so-called adults in my house, to 'read; what they wanted and needed from me and to ignore myself. Neither of my parents really took responsibility for anything either. So, I think I am really attuned to what others want and need from me, but ignore my own best interests in the process. It doesn't help that I'm quite "capable" and self-sufficient. So other people are quite happy to leave things up to me. I think I have lost touch with what my needs are most of the time, as I'm so busy focusing on others and what is needed FROM me.

I asked someone else to take the group today. Progress!
 
I totally relate to your childhood. Same for me—with all the resulting traits. I think most people with TMS have this personality to some extent, which is how and why we got TMS. But the good news is we’re in the right place to learn how to change it. And you made a start today —good for you!
 
Hey z, it's been a while - a year since your last post in fact, and now six years since you started here. I took a quick look at your old postings to remind myself.
zclesa said:
Has anyone realised that their symptoms were sometimes a Body Says No type of thing? My symptoms get a lot better when I am enjoying myself. They tend to get better when I am with people I like. They get better when I am doing something meaningful.
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Indeed, plenty of people notice this correlation, although I think that others aren't mindful enough (or too negative) to be able to recognize when this happens. Dr Mate doesn't connect to Dr Sarno, but another way to define this phenomenon is that it's the flip side of Sarno's distraction theory.

Of course, there are others who have more symptoms when they try to engage in a new activity or go on vacation... because doing these things brings up their own unique combination triggers, but that's just an observation to remind ourselves that nothing about this is black and white.

Anyway, I know you've done a lot of self- examination over the years, and you've described your childhood adversity in past posts, and that connection is pretty clear. You've also spoken about having to continue to interact with your problematic mother.
zclesa said:
I think feeling unsupported and picking up the pieces and slack and carrying things by myself is a lifelong thing that goes back to childhood. So, it is probably a big trigger
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Is your mother still in your life? If she is, perhaps this is an obvious and simplistic question, but did your trip out of the country trigger a deeper desire to be permanently unreachable?

I was going to write more, but I think your last response pretty much covered it. I ended up with RA in 2020 because I didn't say NO when I should have and I was completely mindless about the pressure I was imposing on myself to do everything perfectly. At the end of 2021 I realized I had to quit a much-loved volunteer job of over ten years with the city animal shelter (working with foster cats!) after it became dysfunctionally overwhelming in the pandemic and it was clear that volunteer burnout was not on the list of priorities (whereas catering to the union staff was paramount.) (Ack, that still produces rage). I also started saying NO more often to volunteer needs at my condo, firmly establishing myself in three roles that I enjoy (two of which are small) so that I can point to those and say "I'm doing enough" and feel just fine about it.

The problem with many if not most volunteer jobs is that anyone who is competent and /or committed always ends up being asked to take on more responsibilities due to the inevitable lack of budget and staffing resources in a non profit or government agency. We have to be able to draw the line sooner rather than later, accept that the resource restrictions are not our problem, and be willing to speak up and say NO, that's not what I signed up for. And then refuse to feel guilty about doing so.
 
I hear you, @JanAtheCPA. It's horrible, because we start out genuinely wanting to do something good. Helping others has always made my life meaningful and happy. But the lack of support ruins it all. And yes, the most caring, competent people come out of it damaged because we're the ones who stick around taking it all on. It's sad that this is the way things are. But, I suppose I have to learn to care about myself equally, which is very hard.

I do think that being abroad is partly about being unreachable. That has crossed my mind before. I also think it's generally better for my nervous system. Here, I am stuck in a tiny flat with bad weather. The environment in itself is a stressor, and I can't change that right now due to being on disability. Trips away are at least a break for my nervous system.

Yes, 6 years since I started all this. And I have had times of no symptoms and times of many symptoms. I have definitely learned what helps my nervous system and what doesn't.

Seeing as the voice of wisdom is here, perhaps you can help me here. My main problem with this TMS work (healing my nervous system) is consistency. I have an idea that I would probably be able to get rid of the bulk of my symptoms if I did things consistently. I have had periods of time when I have either had fun consistently or done healing work consistently, and have had results. But I never manage to keep it up. Something gets in the way and then I stop and can't start again. I don't know why.

I don't know if it's just that I don't care about myself enough, or it all feels too overwhelming, if I have a lack of faith in myself, if I'm impatient (I am), or I'm doing the perfectionistic thing of being scared I'm not doing things right, scared I will screw it up and fail. I also have an ADHD-leaning brain and struggle a bit without structure. Probably all of the above. I also don't know if this attitude is precisely BECAUSE my nervous system is all revved up and making me have a negative attitude.

If I have appointments, I always go. If I have something to do for someone else, I will drag myself there despite feeling crap (no more of that). But I struggle to show up for myself every day. I didn't used to be like that as much, so maybe it is a case of my nervous system worsening that feeling, and my inner child kinda taking me over with feelings of helplessness.

Perhaps you can shed light. It sounds like we are quite similar.
 
zclesa said:
Thanks, Diana. It's helpful to know you also relate to this.

Some of us were trained in childhood to put our own needs last. I certainly was. None of my wants, needs, or feelings were considered as a child. I was very much shamed and guilted for existing. The only way to survive was to appease the so-called adults in my house, to 'read; what they wanted and needed from me and to ignore myself. Neither of my parents really took responsibility for anything either. So, I think I am really attuned to what others want and need from me, but ignore my own best interests in the process. It doesn't help that I'm quite "capable" and self-sufficient. So other people are quite happy to leave things up to me. I think I have lost touch with what my needs are most of the time, as I'm so busy focusing on others and what is needed FROM me.

I asked someone else to take the group today. Progress!
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I am wondering with the childhood conditioning, when you have to take care of things because you are the most responsible and capable person, would you pass judgement to people who you perceive won't take care of things? Or when you have to say no to too many requests, would you be able to differentiate people who just ask for advice from people who try to rely you for solutions ? Would the TMS be triggered by both types of people?
 
@louaci
Yes, people can be triggers, but more specifically it’s how you react and behave around them. Your perceptions of self and the roles you’ve learned to play.
You will eventually need to learn how to set boundaries for yourself with people you think want to hear your advice or problem solving (consider that they really don’t you are just compelled to do this). Learning to say no can be hard, both on you emotionally and for the other person who may not really understand the sudden change, but you can learn to set and keep hard boundaries. The more you do it, the easier it becomes and the less triggering certain situations may be. You are absolutely right when you say it’s all about perception. Perception and feeling the need to control. Reducing anxiety really helps with the need to control because you simply feel more safe and secure in your own self image.
 
Cactusflower said:
@louaci
Yes, people can be triggers, but more specifically it’s how you react and behave around them. Your perceptions of self and the roles you’ve learned to play.
You will eventually need to learn how to set boundaries for yourself with people you think want to hear your advice or problem solving (consider that they really don’t you are just compelled to do this). Learning to say no can be hard, both on you emotionally and for the other person who may not really understand the sudden change, but you can learn to set and keep hard boundaries. The more you do it, the easier it becomes and the less triggering certain situations may be. You are absolutely right when you say it’s all about perception. Perception and feeling the need to control. Reducing anxiety really helps with the need to control because you simply feel more safe and secure in your own self image.
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I guess I am taking the perspective of the people asking for advice or information only so they could solve their own problems. If people seek advice from a person who is conditioned to feel compelled to solve others' issues and that is their TMS trigger, how could that interaction work so both parties could be calm and not fearful ?
 
You set boundaries for yourself. You are compelled to give them advice. Inquire (within yourself) if they are really ASKING for your advice or you feel you MUST offer advice. This is people pleasing behavior.
However in any case if you feel you are being asked and don't want to offer, set a boundary for yourself to say no. You will need to learn how to not get sucked into conversations about it, but there are ways you can respond with kindness but still not offer what you don't want to give. You might not feel calm doing it. When I began to set boundaries with people, it made me anxious, question myself, guilty, and I feared being sucked into the whole drama of it. A particular person STILL tries (this is after 6 months) to get me sucked into the whole drama of it. But I stood fast, and just felt the feelings and emotions of all of that. They are not bad emotions - they just are (and I am extremely conditioned to be a goodist and people pleaser). After being in the same room as this person several times, and keeping my boundaries (even if they don't like them and feel uncomfortable and resentful for them), I have 0 triggers towards it now. I feel proud of myself for learning to maintain my peace even if it's uncomfortable. That uncomfortable feeling is merely anxiety, and nothing more. Claire Weekes books helped me begin to address the anxiety and learn to feel safe feeling those emotions. Sometimes they brought on symptoms but I did not worry about it, because it's only TMS. I knew my mind needed practice to learn that these things are not to be feared. No big deal.
After that I read about emotional maturity which led me to learning how to set boundaries.
NONE of this was to "fix" my TMS or "triggers" or anything at all. I just wanted to stop suffering through my interactions with others. Looking at this from a "FIXING" perspective (which you are doing) is not the way to go about it. I looked at it from the perceptive of freeing myself from emotional suffering. I fully accept that sometimes I'll have symptoms because of a trigger, but now I do not most of the time. I have emotions, but not necessarily symptoms, and when I do (my body can be creative with the symptoms) they make me laugh, and I just ask myself "oh, hi! I feel you, I understand you are feeling something" and stop and take a breath, then move on with whatever I was doing.
I also learned to repeat "I am not responsible for anyone's well being", "I am not responsible for their emotions, it is not my job to fix them".
Now if someone does ask me for advice, I choose to, or choose not to offer it - and if I do, it's MY own advice and they can take it or leave it. They might not agree with it, and that's perfectly OK.
You've asked for lots of advice, and I feel like you have not wanted to agree or deal with much of it (or aren't yet ready to) and that's OK. I offer my opinion and you can take it or leave it, no worries. And if I felt fearful, or do not feel calm, what business is that of yours? NONE because those are my own emotions and you can't control them. It's not your business to control them.
I'm telling you, once you can get your brain to accept this, it is VERY freeing. You will probably be challenged by this repeatedly, but just look at that as a chance to practice everything you want to achieve with your interpersonal and relationship skills. You will also learn that you can feel the feelings of fear without your nervous system getting stuck into overdrive over it. This is not about eliminating all fear, it's not about always being calm. It's about being able to feel those emotions and states of mind within your body and your nervous system be mostly OK with it.
It takes learning, and practice, and patience and kindness towards yourself over time.
 
CactusFlower, thank you for your reply. I think my tendency of seeking advice sometimes acts as a distraction for my brain to do the deep work. It is always easier to browse to see what others have to say.

Back to the original post, I would add procrastination as another TMS coping mechanism when the brain finds the notion of not doing certain tasks unacceptable (shame, irresponsible, letting down social, cultural expectations etc.). In other words, if a person procrastinates, he or she doesn't like the current situation and wants to get out but could not and just stays in the mental trap. Nobody procrastinates on things they truly love. Have you seen a child saying no to candy or fun play if it is totally up to them?
 
@louaci "I would add procrastination as another TMS coping mechanism"
100%
In the past we've had several people discuss and even defend procrastination, avoidance of responsibilities and other things that some people with TMS deal with (not all, I rarely procrastinate, lots of us are doers, go-getters and non-stoppers)...I see it often going hand in hand with some self victimization.
 
clarinetpath said:
I am stuck in a tiny apartment and I don't have money

Have you seen this:


Especially 9:35 to 10:35
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Ha, yes, I am really angry about the way the world works, but I am aware of that. Despite paying rent early every year for over ten years in both health and sickness, when I moved house, I was nearly homeless because no landlords would even consider taking on anyone who was paying for rent with welfare (which is my current position). It's illegal, but it still goes on. I spent 2 months ringing around agents every day, trying to convince someone to even let me view a flat. I was 5 days away from being homeless when someone finally agreed to rent to me with a guarantor. And it's a small crappy flat, but at least I'm not homeless.

No wonder in the UK, there is an epidemic now of young people who are off sick. They will likely never be able to afford a decent roof over their head.
 
Cactusflower said:
@louaci "I would add procrastination as another TMS coping mechanism"
100%
In the past we've had several people discuss and even defend procrastination, avoidance of responsibilities and other things that some people with TMS deal with (not all, I rarely procrastinate, lots of us are doers, go-getters and non-stoppers)...I see it often going hand in hand with some self victimization.
Click to expand...

I never used to procrastinate at all. I was the kid who did my homework as soon as I got it and that continued into my work life.

It's only since I've been off sick that procrastination has been an issue. Low energy, low motivation (when you feel like crap it's hard to feel motivated), and confusion about what exactly to DO about my TMS etc have all contributed to this. It's not like I haven't done anything. I have tried 4 different therapies now, all to no avail. And so I'm left demotivated even more.
 
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