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Symptoms as "distractions" or "warnings"/ Dr. Sarno vs Dr. Schubiner

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Rachel53, May 1, 2014.

  1. Rachel53

    Rachel53 New Member

    Having read all of Dr Sarno's books, I have learned that symptoms are generated by the mind to serve as "distractions" from strong and unacceptable emotions. I am now working through Dr. Schubiner's very excellent book, and he characterizes symptoms as "warnings" of these emotions. Is he saying something new or are the two the same - "distractions" vs " warnings". They seem different to me.
    Sienna likes this.
  2. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    If you take something to its very polar extreme, it becomes not only the opposite, but itself once again. The pain is both a distraction and a warning; any event cuts both ways to produces simultaneous opposite effects. Eg, karma.

    Dr. Sarno showed through tremendous clinical success that the brain produces pain and other symptoms to prevent the sufferers from becoming aware of powerful thoughts and emotions--to distract them. The fact that Dr. Schubiner took an opposing view to Dr. Sarno is revealing of his own stance on Dr. Sarno's work. I think the other opposing views he's taken to Dr. Sarno are far more important.

    From Merriam-Webster, Distraction, def. "something that amuses or entertains you so that you do not think about problems." So it distracts you from a problem. The problem then is the warning trying to surface, that cannot be allowed to surface for reasons of Ego.

    All of our problems stem from Ego.

    Sienna likes this.
  3. Rachel53

    Rachel53 New Member

    Wow. I can't believe you responded to my post, Steve. I have read (and reread) your book, and it is dog-eared and bookmarked and underlined and highlighted from beginning to end. I still turn back to it time and time again. It was the book that helped me move forward when I had read all of Dr. Sarno's books and was truly convinced that I had TMS but wasn't sure what to do next. Your book gave me the direction I needed and I am incredibly grateful for that.

    I never thought I'd have the chance to thank you directly and now here you are. Thank you, Steve.

    Last edited: May 1, 2014
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  4. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    I consider it a high compliment that you took the time to dog-ear and highlight stuff. Thank you. All that hard work does not go in vain when people take the time to try to integrate the words into their life. Those people not getting as much out of it are simply reading it. When I ask them about parts of it they can't recall reading those parts.

    I lived and slept with Dr. Sarno's books. If I could have married them I would have, sex, maybe. If they didn't get wet I would have showered with them. To this day I can quote many of his lines and I haven't read them for about 5 years. I took his words into my body. In the beginning was the word...

    That's how you heal, you live what is written, you don't just read it. Those folks who got only a tiny bit of help from mine can't remember most of it, and definitely aren't doing many of the things I did. You cannot check off everything in Appendix B and still be in pain.

    I see a pattern when I consult with people. They're jumping from one book to another hoping to hear or see that one thing that suddenly heals them. Although that has happened rarely with my book it's not the norm. I still believe that all you need is Healing Back Pain. I see the breadth and scope of Dr. Sarno's intention. When he says, "some of them need more (last 20%)" he means they need to find a way to "get there" ...to where he's pointing. Sometimes people will tell me, "hey man, I just wanted to tell you I healed, but not with Sarno's stuff." Then as I talk to them more it's clear they healed exactly with Dr. Sarno's stuff. They just feel better if they think they came up with the idea themselves, much like some of the TMS doctors. Ego is at the heart of our problems because it shields consciousness, and serves only itself.

    You don't have to pick or choose one view or another to heal. Whether it's a distraction or message is irrelevant to healing. Be careful not to get caught up in the minutia of the knowledge gathering process. I used to be surprised when people weren't healing with the good doctor's books. But looking back with more experience I see why. There's still resistance to the message. People will often say..."I'm not sure if I totally believe in this or that from Dr. Sarno."....I think it's this way." He warned me to not let people try to pick and choose what they wanted to believe in. His work, works. But it has to be seen for what it is, and not for what people choose to believe. When I got my manuscript back from Dr. Sopher, he had marked it and circled things, etc. In the section where I wrote, "people tend to pick and choose what they want to believe."..he circled it and wrote..."exactly!!" Belief is the key to healing. You have to believe your body is ok or you can't heal. So everyone who heals from the knowledge that they're structurally ok, is healing from Dr. Sarno's work, and no one else's work. All the other mechanisms of conjecture are irrelevant.

    1) you have to believe you have TMS and that your body is ok.
    2) once you understand about TMS, stop gathering information on it, it's antithetical beyond the repetition needed of the current information.
    3) everyone needs confidence and support, but don't lean on others to heal you, it becomes paradoxical after awhile and will hold you back by the need for constant reassurance; codependency.
    4) don't hang out in pain groups talking about symptoms, we love you here, but we're happier if you never have to return
    5) find more joy in your life, if you have chronic symptoms you aren't having enough pure pleasure to counter your current situation
    6) don't be "deceived" into thinking that everything in your life is good, and ok, if you have symptoms. The symptoms are proof that things are not good or ok, as through your eyes.
    7) shift your awareness from body to happiness through passion.
    8) stop seeking grails, you have what you need to heal, already inside you. Find it by looking.

    Good luck Rachel Dear


    Sussex TMS, Msunn and Ellen like this.
  5. caroldiem

    caroldiem New Member

    I love your post Steve i need to buy your book i am ordering it right now. Thankyou for replying to my thread as well. I have to admit ever since i found this Wiki page and discovered TMS my symtpoms have already drastically reduced it's amazing i haven't even read any books yet
  6. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Very good Carol, keep us posted. Let healing take its own time. Don't rush the "Moan" a Lisa."
  7. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member

    I'm not familiar with Schubiner's work, but I'll give my perspective on your question.

    I think each person has to kind of decide how they want to take the symptoms.

    Some believe the ego is distracting us from pain as a defense mechanism against it. The ego typically wants to escape it, because that's what it learned as a child. Escape or distraction as a means of protection.

    One could look at symptoms as warnings, as well. Warnings that there's an underlying, unintegrated emotional issue that's crying to get relief. And if it can get our attention with pain so we'll pay attention to it and give it what it needs, it will. It's still an immature emotion, because it's stuck in the child-state. Really, if this is classified as a warning, it's like a warning of emotional meltdown at some level. Otherwise, it could be viewed as a cry for help.

    In a way, we have both distractions and cries for help (warnings) going on at the same time. We have an immature child-like emotion, stuck from childhood (neglected), crying or screaming for attention, because our ego has brushed it aside, not wanting to feel its painful emotions. And we have the ego, who brushed it aside to protect us by ignoring it. I think the child is mainly trying to get our attention so we'll give it unconditional attention. Then, it integrates and the "drama" goes away. I think the ego is probably what's distracting us from dealing with it with little "dramas" in our lives.

    I may have to think about it a bit more to sort these out (I'm spitting this out on the fly, and this is my first time considering this topic), but maybe that gives you some insight to the psychological dynamics at play beneath the surface.
  8. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I think many people with TMS pain think only in repressed emotions from the past, which for some dealing
    today with unemployment, losing a house in a natural disaster, or other economic situation, makes
    them think only of economic woes from the past. But economic woes of the present can trigger those
    long repressed financial woes of the past. New anger fires up old anger and the pain comes on.
  9. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I posted about economic woes, but the same can apply to any situation.
    A present anxiety can trigger memories of a similar situation in the past.
    Friends recently divorced and it triggered my repressed emotions about my parents
    divorcing when I was nine.
  10. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member

    could not agree more walt.
  11. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member

    My biggest problem was bringing up my emotions so I could process them. And that's what most people are scared of, too. Hense, TMS. I'm now doing the Presence Process. It's bringing up the emotions very easily, and experientially, so they can process. I'm seeing great changes in a short time, but everyone's journey is different. If you process the emotions, everything else follows. The process is so easy, in my opinion, and it resolves all of your health and emotional issues in time. I highly recommend it. Heck, even if a person had little to no problems that they were aware of, I would recommend the Presence Process. I've tried several different avenues. I don't think any of them even come close to the Presence Process and how effective it is. Good luck!

    Oh, if you do it, be sure to get the second revision of the book (not the second edition). It's a much better version. You can order it at www.thepresenceportal.com, and there's a lot of free material there. However, all of that free stuff makes more sense once you've read the book and especially once you've started the process that the book walks you through.

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