Diana-M
Beloved Grand Eagle
If you feel determined to give this a good try —good for you! Stick with it and I hope it works for you. You are right it takes time with any plan.
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Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
Still confused which way is correct (or both)
- Thread starter TraumatizedSpirit
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- confused
JohnDellatto
Well known member
Jan is saying you can pick the mindbody method that you like since most of them work as most of them have to do with lowering fear and changing the way you think about symptoms which is the crux of healing. And if you were being treated for something serious that required a psychiatric medical professional then don't disregard that just because of things you've read on the forum.
feduccini
Beloved Grand Eagle
This is the part where I think Sam Miller should be more open. She talks about allowance as the way to resolve energy stuck in your body, which I agree. But the way she says that your brain knows exactly what is doing leaves a lot out, for example, how our amygdala is an ancient part that has trouble dealing with modern stressors. Or how there's people who gets quite better just by learning they're not in danger, or having a precise journaling breakthrough, or even getting a ketamine treatment.
I do believe TMS healing has mostly to do with exploring your pain and connecting it with emotions, but there's a lot of neuroplasticity research being made out there that might point to other approaches, for example VR treatment, or people who heals from phantom pain by using a mirror.
Rusty Red
Well known member
I was so fascinated with this study when I did my psych degree in college. Amazing.
NewBeginning
Well known member
@feduccini and @Rusty Red - YES! So fascinating! There's some remarkable literature around predictive coding in general you might find interesting as well, if you haven't already explored. Perception has such truly fascinating implications on neuroplasticity!
Rusty Red
Well known member
I'm taking another stab at reading Schubiner and I definitely understand feeling confused so much. I posted this in the FB TMS group tonight as my brain was exploding. Lol
How do you reconcile so many different sources saying different things? For example, Sarno said herniated discs don't cause pain. Schubiner says bulging and degenerated don't, herniated might, especially if there is pain or numbness in the arm. Hanscom read to me like almost everything back there could cause pain but shouldn't need surgery. Sometimes it feels overwhelming to determine what to believe and whether activity really is dangerous or not.
How do you reconcile so many different sources saying different things? For example, Sarno said herniated discs don't cause pain. Schubiner says bulging and degenerated don't, herniated might, especially if there is pain or numbness in the arm. Hanscom read to me like almost everything back there could cause pain but shouldn't need surgery. Sometimes it feels overwhelming to determine what to believe and whether activity really is dangerous or not.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
Hanscom and Sarno are saying the same thing which is that the pain is not dangerous and is being neuroscientifically manufactured by the TMS mechanism 1) because it can; and 2) for reasons that you have to figure out.
I have no idea what Schubiner supposedly might be talking about and I can't be bothered to attempt to distinguish between the three things being described since two out of three apparently are not the cause of pain and the third only might be.
To be blunt, for me this is just semantics, overthinking, and ultimately Distraction 101.
I have no idea what Schubiner supposedly might be talking about and I can't be bothered to attempt to distinguish between the three things being described since two out of three apparently are not the cause of pain and the third only might be.
To be blunt, for me this is just semantics, overthinking, and ultimately Distraction 101.
feduccini
Beloved Grand Eagle
It reminds me of those videos where you listen to a word and have no clue what it is, and then when they tell you it becomes the clearest thing in the world hahaha
feduccini
Beloved Grand Eagle
About Schubiner, I was checking some notes from Unlearn Your Pain and it seems to me he advocates the pain is physical in the sense that the danger activated brain creates muscular tension, and the nervous system becomes hyper sensitized interpreting these mild tensions as high pain level, aside from creating other strange sensations as heat, itching, numbness, skin sensitivity etc.
I remember a video where he explains stress and trauma stack each other and one day something triggers a reaction where they capture neuropathways to produce pain.
I remember a video where he explains stress and trauma stack each other and one day something triggers a reaction where they capture neuropathways to produce pain.
With regard to the topic of this thread of 'which is the correct way?' and Dr Howard Schubiner, @Duggit wrote this about Dr Schubiner's view regarding recovery from TMS, which indicates that any mind/body method or technique can work:
"The most brilliant overarching observation about recovery from TMS that I have seen comes from Dr. Howard Schubiner. He spent some time with Sarno to learn from him and, in my opinion, is the leading mindbody physician currently practicing in the United States. His perspective differs in some respects from Sarno’s because it incorporates contemporary neuroscience research that was unavailable when Sarno developed his approach. But Schubiner wrote in one of his books that he is proud to be counted among the whole generation of researchers and clinicians that Sarno influenced.
Schubiner’s observation:
He said a person must have
(1) a clinician he or she trusts
(2) an explanation of what is wrong with him or her
(3) a technique to fix it
(4) hope and optimism about recovering.
It is the trusted clinician, of course, who gives the afflicted person an explanation of what is wrong that he or she trusts is correct, a technique to fix it that he or she trusts will work, and the hope and optimism. If one factors out the trusted clinician because a person with TMS is trying to recover on a self-help basis, then the elements the person needs are
(1) an explanation of what is wrong (found in, say, a Sarno book or another book or online or wherever) that he or she trusts is correct
(2) a technique to fix it (found in a book or wherever) that he or she trusts will work
(3) hope and optimism that he or she will be able to implement the technique and will thereby recover."
"The most brilliant overarching observation about recovery from TMS that I have seen comes from Dr. Howard Schubiner. He spent some time with Sarno to learn from him and, in my opinion, is the leading mindbody physician currently practicing in the United States. His perspective differs in some respects from Sarno’s because it incorporates contemporary neuroscience research that was unavailable when Sarno developed his approach. But Schubiner wrote in one of his books that he is proud to be counted among the whole generation of researchers and clinicians that Sarno influenced.
Schubiner’s observation:
He said a person must have
(1) a clinician he or she trusts
(2) an explanation of what is wrong with him or her
(3) a technique to fix it
(4) hope and optimism about recovering.
It is the trusted clinician, of course, who gives the afflicted person an explanation of what is wrong that he or she trusts is correct, a technique to fix it that he or she trusts will work, and the hope and optimism. If one factors out the trusted clinician because a person with TMS is trying to recover on a self-help basis, then the elements the person needs are
(1) an explanation of what is wrong (found in, say, a Sarno book or another book or online or wherever) that he or she trusts is correct
(2) a technique to fix it (found in a book or wherever) that he or she trusts will work
(3) hope and optimism that he or she will be able to implement the technique and will thereby recover."
NewBeginning
Well known member
YESS - Sine wave speech - fascinating - The first time I was exposed to it, I was like "what kind of magic is that?" Ha ha ha - our brains are such remarkable prediction machines.
Have been immersed in all of the literature around perception for an unrelated project, but so much of it applies to TMS.
TraumatizedSpirit
New Member
I seem to get most alarms/triggers when i do something or think freely, feelings of fear, anger, depression. So is it okay to kinda do/think at the same time as feeling? Like you keep doing or thinking what ever and same time feeling the feeling, without having to stop/pause. Kinda like free flow allowing. I see why not, seems very effective?
Hi Traumatized Spirit
I am really moved by your sincerity and the honesty of your posts and how you are searching for answers for yourself. As people have already pointed out there are no simple answers - no easy yes no - no simple 'do this and you get better'.
I wonder whether part of your healing might emerge from investigating more personally what safety and healing is for you. What do YOU want to do? Given all that you've read and heard, what do you feel is most appropriate for yourself right now? I think learning about TMS is so important but we need to be careful not to give away all our power to others. Through developing a deeper, loving awareness for ourselves we can slowly become our own expert and start to make wiser decisions. This does not mean we disregard the opinion of everyone else. Be open, listen , consider alernative view points but then return deeply to yourself. What is your experience telling you?
In relation to your question above. Why not investigate this for yourself? What happens when you do that? What do you notice? What do you learn about yourself and your body? Come back and tell us so that we can learn from you
I feel as though the fear that seems to be fuelling your questions might start to release a little when you come back to your own experience. Your experience of pain, fear, healing, joy, uncertainty....all of it. This may well help with the pain too.
I wish you well in your explorations.
With love
Grateful
I am really moved by your sincerity and the honesty of your posts and how you are searching for answers for yourself. As people have already pointed out there are no simple answers - no easy yes no - no simple 'do this and you get better'.
I wonder whether part of your healing might emerge from investigating more personally what safety and healing is for you. What do YOU want to do? Given all that you've read and heard, what do you feel is most appropriate for yourself right now? I think learning about TMS is so important but we need to be careful not to give away all our power to others. Through developing a deeper, loving awareness for ourselves we can slowly become our own expert and start to make wiser decisions. This does not mean we disregard the opinion of everyone else. Be open, listen , consider alernative view points but then return deeply to yourself. What is your experience telling you?
In relation to your question above. Why not investigate this for yourself? What happens when you do that? What do you notice? What do you learn about yourself and your body? Come back and tell us so that we can learn from you
I feel as though the fear that seems to be fuelling your questions might start to release a little when you come back to your own experience. Your experience of pain, fear, healing, joy, uncertainty....all of it. This may well help with the pain too.
I wish you well in your explorations.
With love
Grateful
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
@Maobadger11, I think you inadvertently inserted your message inside Diana's quote where it won't be seen, instead of outside the [/QUOTE] parameter. There are options for making changes below your post. You can try editing it, or just delete the post and try again.