Spinning my Wheels and Unsure on the Road Ahead. Stuck & Frozen between Paradigms.

[bluealchemy]

I've seen it mentioned quite often, and have always loved the title even though I've never read it. I probably should ! I am personally a big believer in the power of the placebo effect and using it constructively. Joe Dispenza is frequently mentioned and recommended by people here. There are so many different resources out there, it can get a little overwhelming - as long as somethings resonates with you and is on the mindbody path, then go for it!

Totally! That's cool. I'm clearly new here, haha. I am glad to have found this forum.

Becoming the Placebo is super cool because it lists COUNTLESS miraculous case studies of the placebo effect! INCREDIBLE things have happened to prove the mind body connection, the evidence is insurmountable. It's a good read for someone who needs some extra convincing or tangible evidence

 

[bluealchemy]

My best piece of advice at this point is: don't overthink it! Anything is possible in the world of the mind-body connection. That's all you really need to keep in mind.

Good advice! Overthinking it feels a bit like "trying to solve a problem from the same level of thinking that created it"

 

[JanAtheCPA]

"trying to solve a problem from the same level of thinking that created it"

Good one @bluealchemy

You have SO got this!

 

[bluealchemy]

So I did wind sprints....Not only were they wrong, but that day marked the day when the pain began to diminish rapidly. Up to then I agreed with Sarno intellectually but nothing was moving..I wasn't getting better...YET. Than I ran. I got out my mountain bike and skateboard, I went to the batting cages and hit 80mph fastballs.

Hey Baseball. I have been noticing your presence across this forum as I dive deeper in. Every time, you speak truth with such concise poignancy and I really appreciate you having responded on my post here.

I'm curious, what has you continue to check and respond on this forum, all these years later?

Anyways. I read somewhere you commenting on having a sort of "fuck it" attitude and crushing through your work outs in the beginning. That's exactly what I did today. I'm a pretty brave person, and I'm also so fiercely devoted to my own healing, my own livelihood, out of sheer love and respect for myself - I'm determined to get through this.

So I said fuck it, there's nothing wrong with me.. I'm going to do a work out class. I MISS and LOVE vigorous exercise. So I went to Orange Theory where I kept up with the entire class of vigorous running on the treadmill and strength training.

It felt awesome to work out again. My mindset is in a really optimistic place about it, I have made leaps and bounds in dispelling my diagnosis these past two days.

However, despite this, my back hurt way worse after that and continues to throb into the night time. (hence the 2 am post).

When you courageously threw yourself full throttle into activity, did you experience a short term increase in symptoms? And then by returning to exercise despite that, signal to your brain even more rapidly - that you know what it's up to and you won't be deterred?

Basically I'm just hoping for a bit of assurance that it is OK that my pain levels have doubled, the night after my first big work out.

Also - yes I am continuing with the deep, more important shadow work and uncovering a lot about myself. Through the entire death process of my mother, I have felt like an actor with the on a stage, roses at my feet - with the crowd roaring with approval and singing my high praises with how well I've handled everything. My mom always said to me that I was "the one child she didn't have to worry about". I'm pulling back the curtain to reveal the truth - I took care of my family, pretended I was strong, and all the while abandoned this part of me that so needed to be seen and felt. I still feel VERY emotionally numb, like falling asleep on your arm and you wake up and its paralyzed. With some work, I'm beginning to feel the pricklings of this emotional pain turning back online. Anyways - just a note - that this emotional work is also going on for me and I know that is the MOST important part.

Thank you for everything,

 

[Baseball65]

I'm curious, what has you continue to check and respond on this forum, all these years later?

First, I promised myself the moment I knew I was healing that I would do anything I could to help other people with this problem, because I was actively perusing ways to kill myself and make it look accidental when I found Sarno(so my family could get my insurance)... There was no way I was gonna be a desk worker, and be careful the rest of my life after being a Pirate for the first 30 years.

You can imagine how relieved I was to find out that I was having a very normal problem with a solution. This was in '99 long before the internet.
Also...after I got better, I found that new things tried to sneak in and 'pretend' to be 'real'...participating in other people's recovery keeps my head in the TMS game. I had a fairly dramatic upbringing and my raging inner child doesn't like anything about adulthood so I need to stay vigilant. A Couple weeks ago I had a magical mystery neck freeze....and all I had to do was this stuff again and it went away... I would have been terrified if I didn't know about Sarno.

"the one child she didn't have to worry about"

See! We're all the same. That would have been something that My Mom would have said about me. Kicked out of schools, Working two jobs when I was 15, Ran away from home, Jail,overdoses, rehabs, Homes, diversion programs.... My mom and I 'met' in my twenties when I finally settled down and we became 'Friends'. In fact, when she finally went round the twist with dementia My Brother and Sister who were the 'favorites' couldn't 'Deal with her' and I was the one who ended up watching her the last few years of her life. In spite of already being 'cured' of TMS by then I had soooo many attempted incursions over that period....My brother once said I was like a Cat and no matter how far or fast I fell, I always landed on my feet and No one had to worry about me. What he doesn't know is that that 'trait' makes me unconsciously angry, afraid and lonely. Now that I was the responsible one, all of the anger that used to manifest itself as DRAMA was now trying to start symptoms... so I have to be uber vigilant

also. I think the reason for existence is to be of service to your fellow man. I don't necessary LIKE that Idea, as it is part of the TMS repertoire, BUT I have found this is the one thing i have been able to help people through ....it's really easy, I just have to tell the truth. I like the Truth. It's better than any drug I ever did and makes for much better entertainment!

I noticed your post about specific symptom syndrome 'names'. Keep in mind that there is an inherent flaw in the modern medical science world. To get a Phd one has to 'contribute' to the amalgam of extant work...that basically means 'add something new' . Well, sometimes there is nothing new to add. So built in to the structure of 'SCIENCE' is a problem; it grows geometrically with the number of PHD's and that means they have to micro-dissect the world around them into an infinite number of slices...and naming new 'syndromes' or Re-naming old ones, is one of their favorite past times... so the longer they compile stuff the more problems we have as a society. The DSM is now several volumes....it used to have 50 total mental problems..now they are in the thousands.

So...any new syndromes are just the old crap recycled. CRPS. RSI. Neuropathy. Fibromyalgia. All new names for TMS that have come out since I got better. I don't need to learn about them.

I just broke up with a gal last year. I got so sick of her constantly telling me what was wrong with her. . All of the refined syndromes from which she suffered. She grew up wealthy, spoiled and insulated. She actually told me she grew up middle class...and then one day I saw a picture of a horse in a field and knowing she did dressage as a child I asked "Oh...is that your Pony?"...and she said "Oh no, that was my OTHER pony"

I'm sure you see the punch line. She told me she had PTSD. I asked her which conflict she fought in? she didn't get the joke...she told me about watching her family 'fight'.

I told her about a family I knew;

"Yep...the Mom got them evicted from their house and the family became homeless. Dad was a lazy bum. They got fired from their jobs and had to become itinerant workers. Then one of their sons killed their OTHER son and the murderer also had to be kicked out of the country, so the Family had to be broken up"

That is of course THE FIRST FAMILY IN RECORDED HISTORY.....(Book of Genesis)

We have been F-d as long as we've been a species that pretends to think. If you are alive today, you are alive because you are the descendant of the winners, the murderers and the thieves...the ones who came out on top. They wrote History books and justified and softened their story's but we were born to Breed, Win, and Expand. Modern illusions of civility have buried this trait ONLY for the last couple hundred years Max....so we are among the first generations saddled with 'Niceness' and 'Political correctness' and "Equality" and a lot of other traits that are anathema to the 100,000 generations of evolution that made you here today. They are all atavistically buried in your unconscious screaming 'WTF.... punch that guy...don't let him get away with that... we died and struggled for you to WIN"

But, to make sure you never hear their voices, some guy needing his PHD decided that 1.5* of anomaly in your spine from a supposed 'ideal' is enough to stop all those millennia of inertia.

I think not.

I'll end on this. Go and look up 'Neurasthenia'.... it was what all of the wealthy Viennese women were suffering from in Freuds day...go and read the symptoms. It sounds just like TMS. But that was a LOT of PHDs ago....and of course, it's never been cured. Only treated.

I am glad to hear how well your doing. Yes, I have been woken up at night...particularly duing the recovery process...it is your forefathers brawling with the 'Nice guy' you've become. Tell them all to STFU and get pissed about it. You will win.

 

[bluealchemy]

I am glad to hear how well your doing. Yes, I have been woken up at night...particularly duing the recovery process...it is your forefathers brawling with the 'Nice guy' you've become. Tell them all to STFU and get pissed about it. You will win.

I feel optimistic and thankful due to all these resources and people like you!

So - just confirming.... It's okay that my back hurts twice as bad since doing my vigorous work out? Is that how it has felt for you when you tackled vigorous exercise in recovery?

I'm willing to accept this peak for right now in service of my greater healing. I am a pretty tough cookie. I just get spun up in "Oh no, what if this is making it worse"

 

[bluealchemy]

So...any new syndromes are just the old crap recycled. CRPS. RSI. Neuropathy. Fibromyalgia. All new names for TMS that have come out since I got better. I don't need to learn about them.

Fair enough!! My biggest hurdle at the moment is 100% refuting the physical cause, though I'm making quick progress. It does help me to refute the diagnosis if I learn about it's history or find case studies that reference it.

But honestly I looked at my actual MRI picture compared to a "normal MRI curve" pic last night - and the curve of my spine looks fine lol

 

[bluealchemy]

I'm sure you see the punch line. She told me she had PTSD. I asked her which conflict she fought in? she didn't get the joke...she told me about watching her family 'fight'.

My mom was like that. She clung to any diagnosis, was obsessive about illness, and constantly pointing fingers at every one else to blame for misery. As deep a victim complex as you can imagine. If I need an example of mind body syndrome, I don't have to look further than my own mother who gradually made herself sick over the years with her self pity and repressed anger. I'm sure you aren't surprised to hear she had chronic back pain too. She always firmly believed it was from her herniated disc.

I needed a mom who could take care of me, to teach me the world, to teach me about being a woman - but instead I got a self pitying, dishonest, delusional and lost woman who never saw me for who I really was and shamed me and worried about her children in an unhealthy and pathological way. Over the years I learned to accept her for who she was, and do the little dance that made her proud of me. I became an UPSTANDING person who got sooo much praise for the things I do in my life.

While I was starting my business 2 years ago, and thriving in my community, knew she was dying of liver disease the whole year and kept it a secret from all of us and was going to just leave us all with this huge mess of unresolved emotion. I did end up getting another year with her after her liver transplant - by her bedside, taking care of her.

You do have to be careful with the victim complex for sure. As soon as your challenges become your IDENTITY versus your fuel to transform - you are stuck in a pretty ugly pitfall.

We all come from different levels of trauma and abuse. One thing I would argue is that sometimes though things look pretty on the outside, family dynamics can still be insidious and damning to the child in the environment. Trauma is about the things that happen to us. But it's also about the INNER WORLDS we create in response to our family dynamics. It's the reason my brother became a cruel sociopath in and out of psych wards, and I turned out to be a shining example of a team player, community builder, artist, entrepreneur, caretaker... We all respond to life differently, no matter our "stories" or backgrounds

 

[bluealchemy]

First, I promised myself the moment I knew I was healing that I would do anything I could to help other people with this problem, because I was actively perusing ways to kill myself and make it look accidental when I found Sarno(so my family could get my insurance)... There was no way I was gonna be a desk worker, and be careful the rest of my life after being a Pirate for the first 30 years. and get pissed about it. You will win.

I want to reply thoughtfully to more of what you wrote this morning but ironically I gotta run today to go clear some belongings from my mom & step dads apartment. Joy to the world

Well - godspeed. I am going to do the same when I heal!

Places like this are a good place for it - because people come here actually WANTING to heal, not just to complain. I have a lot of friends in my life who have chronic pain and would never ever consider this type of work. So I think when I heal I'll come back here to post and check in on people from time to time too!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

So - just confirming.... It's okay that my back hurts twice as bad since doing my vigorous work out? Is that how it has felt for you when you tackled vigorous exercise in recovery?

You're doing great work, @bluealchemy and I do get this question. I also get why @Baseball65 isn't responding to it.

Ultimately, you are the only one who can figure this out, by trusting your instincts and learning to talk with your body from a rational perspective. I do have a couple of things which I can offer however.

1. Revisit, or familiarize yourself with the concept of the Symptom Imperative . This was Dr Sarno's term for symptoms that return, get worse, or new symptoms that crop up shortly after people start doing this work. It is absolutely, as Baseball referred to above, the TMS mechanism in your brain fighting back, tooth and nail.

2. Steve Ozanich has some great descriptions of intense pain he experienced before and after he learned about TMS from Dr Sarno, and he was also a very active, physical individual. Lol, probably still is! Anyway, you might even find those descriptions in some of his early posts right here on the forum. Just look up his profile! Or get hold of his book.

3. Here's my personal take, keeping in mind that when I discovered Dr Sarno and TMS I was already 60 years old. I started working with a personal trainer and did weight training for the very first time in my life. I was eventually deadlifting 45 pounds and pressing 40 and I can't remember what I was doing on the various machines and I know that doesn't sound much like much to some of the guys out there, but for me it was pretty astounding and energizing and exciting (sadly the pandemic shut down the gym and that's a whole other story). In any case, the point I want to make is that I paid attention and recognized the difference between pain and strain that was necessary for the gains, vs pain that seemed "wrong". To keep pushing through I engaged my breath, calmed down my fear brain, and visualized the benefits I was developing. However if something felt wrong I would stop and tell my trainer so she could have me adjust or back off. That's what I mean about learning to trust your instincts. It's also very much a process of being mindful of your inner chatter both during and after your workout. I never had any issues after workouts. My TMS symptoms were usually before a scheduled session, when I felt like I just couldn't manage the workout - but because I'd paid and made a commitment to my trainer, I dragged myself out to the gym, and of course I felt terrific afterwards, every single time.

My personal belief is that if I actually had something physically wrong, then I would feel it during the workout - I mean, neurologically, isn't that why our brains were designed to create pain messages? If you're injured, your brain is supposed to create a pain message to warn you to take care of that body part and not injure it further. That's a fact - scientifically and neurologically. It actually makes no sense to be able to work out without your pain and then have more pain later, unless that pain is psychological and caused by your doubt (and for anyone else reading this, obviously I'm not talking about sore muscles because everybody knows that sore muscles after a new workout are not dangerous and go away after a couple of days and they are not TMS)(and obviously y'all have to use common sense when starting a new exercise regime and follow the recommendations) (@bluealchemy, I know I didn't need to tell you that ).

It's important to continue to have compassion for yourself and to remember that this doubt is not the rational you, it is your brain on TMS. You just need to keep remembering that: "This is my brain on TMS"

Does this all make sense? Mind you, I'm a retired CPA, not a personal trainer or a physiotherapist!

 

[bluealchemy]

Does this all make sense? Mind you, I'm a retired CPA, not a personal trainer or a physiotherapist!

It does! I just re-listened to chapter 3 of the book and he calls this all out specifically.
I think this goes back to your earlier advice "not to overthink it" haha
A gradual process of training my mind that movement will not hurt me - with out "forcing" myself to do things that are extremely painful because that could cause more fear and avoidance of exercise.

I'm still torn on whether to go with pilates to start out, or orange theory (which is dramatically more vigorous - but would be my choice if I was 100% pain free.. Which is why I think maybe I should just jump right into that). Either way, I feel like I'm definitely on the right track!

I feel good about it. It's totally there on the surface layer of my mind. Now to continue letting that radiate down into the subconscious layers. It doesn't happen overnight

Thank you for all your comments, wisdom and advise!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

PS, @bluealchemy, I think I erroneously made a couple of references thinking you were a guy, but I was confusing you with someone else - of course being a classic perfectionist I had to fix that

 

[bluealchemy]

PS, @bluealchemy, I think I erroneously made a couple of references thinking you were a guy, but I was confusing you with someone else - of course being a classic perfectionist I had to fix that

Haha - that's totally fine!