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So you're telling me my pains a lie?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Bicepmuffins, Aug 25, 2020.

  1. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    Hey all,

    Background: I have fixed carpel tunnel and tennis elbow pain with TMS methods. They vanished quickly and only battle with it when I get back to weightlifting at this point.

    New issue: I have snapping hip on the right side which eventually led to pain. I have tried to ignore it but theres definitely a muscularity and flexibility difference between left and right.

    So, I started PT. Seemed to have helped the symmetry but then my calf started hurting and lower back. Got an MRI, I have 2 herniated discs in lower back that are consistent with the symptoms.

    I am aware that I obsess. I have anxiety and by default am a nutcase unless I meditate and exercise. BUT heres the thing, I didn't know my back could mess with my foot. I didn't make that connection, the MRI did but my toe is numb and my calf hurts. So, if its TMS, its reallllllly clever.

    Like clearly this is a breakage in part of my body. Clearly there are repercussions of that mechanically. How can you guarantee me by ignoring this real breakage, its not going to get worse? It feels so common sense that if ur touching nerves, nerves make sensation.

    And, if its TMS, its clearly going to keep crippling me in various ways, how do I stop it and how do I actually know the difference between TMS and you're about to ruin your life?
  2. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    I think most TMS oriented physicians do not see herniated disc as a valid cause of symptoms. Here's a quote from Dr. Sarno:
    https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Herniated_Disc (Herniated Disc)
    So that is a start to support a TMS approach to your symptoms.

    One good question to ask yourself or your physician (and even without a TMS physician you can get a second opinion) is "is a mind-body approach to my symptoms safe for me for the next few months? Is there an urgent need for invasive procedures?"

    I am not sure what led to your success in the past, but if you decide to do a TMS approach to these symptoms, you might "dig a little deeper" this go-round. Use the Structured Education Program, or Schubiner's Unlearn Your Pain, etc. Often the second bout of TMS means we're called to go deeper, learn more, or perhaps address issues in our life.

    I also suggest you make another post with the herniated disc in the title, and ask for success stories. I think you'll find this supportive.

    With respect, we don't give medical advice here, only encouragement. I understand your fears, and hope that you'll find a good way through.

    Dorado likes this.
  3. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    @Andy Bayliss Good points and thanks for the reply! With the original case, it was as easy as reading the book and then telling myself to shutup essentially. I do plan to dig deeper either way but thanks for recommending some good resources. I guess the question is, unrelated to my specific case but related to the quote linked, is a herniation of the disc considered something that won't progress into real issues or something that just shouldn't cause pain? I fear worsening condition based on negligent response which is probably the most common fear, and then also, skeptical of the concept of going back to the activities without fixing the cause of it because it sounds like a way to have a progression of things lead to a real problem.

    I am going to re-read Sarno, but can you tell me, does he encourage people to sit like crap still if that caused it? Or he just isolating the pain response?
  4. Tms_joe

    Tms_joe Well known member

    Aren’t you trying to get an answer to something we know cannot be answered with any certainty?

    Will a herniated disk get worse if no physical treatment is done? Most doctors will take your money and give you an “opinion.” Some will insist on surgery just to make money.

    You described yourself as a nutcase in a playful way. Why not solve those issues? That’s what treating TMS involves. Studies that are likely referenced on here show zero causation between what a doctor would call a bad X-ray or mri and the reporting of pain from patients. Studies also show the change in brain activity when someone experienced TMS and after they are cured. Weird how some people still think it’s not real or might not be.
  5. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter


    1. Well, idk. That's why I'm asking. What evidence is there besides it tends to relieve pain is there? I didn't know about any brain activity change but why do we assume that's exactly what Sarno thinks it is and not just ur brain learning to ignore pain at its own peril?

    2. Idk about the worsening. From what I hear. Yes. It will get worse. Is there no pain? Different story. Like what happens if u have no disc left and the bones are grinding down and hitting nerves idk.

    3. For being a nutcase, I have spent the past 9 years on a nonstop quest to resolve my anxiety. I did eventually find the solution for my mind, yoga / meditations. Helps in so many ways but I can't really do them enough because my back and my hip also may be hurt or TMSed. Its hard for me to achieve the state I need to feel better and I'm avoiding it rn because it hurts to do / worried about worsening. I don't understand though what about pressure on a nerve doesn't sound like causation is all. I've heard a lot of recovery stories, this just feels so incredibly real. And to be honest, I didn't search for too long but didn't hear any back related success stories yet. Just, hey I have back pain and people saying back pain is TMS.

    Sorry if I'm being frustrating for you. I'm on board that TMS exists, just confused why we believe Sarnos explanation of what's happening based on the result of his recommendations. Placebo opiates while u risk further damage Or really oxygen related issues?

    I have to read again before I sound more ignorant than I already do
  6. Tms_joe

    Tms_joe Well known member

    1) Go seek it out. Much is in the wiki on here? You’ve read all of it right? Skepticism can be good, but you have to educate yourself before you decide anything. Proof for me was discovering intelligent doctors dedicating their career and life to TMS. The outrageously coincidental situation where all descriptions of TMS seemed to be my autobiography. The brain scans have been done. There’s a YouTube video out there of a little boy who was cured of TMS. I believe they did brain scans to prove it. The proof is everywhere once you gain enough awareness to see it. You’ll see the behaviors leading to it in someone else before yourself.

    2) Probably nothing. Being unwell and needing immediate attention would be due to risk of death that doesn’t exist here. If you hold onto this fear, and that’s what it is, you will remain in pain. You also sound about as educated in how this would work with pinched nerves and such as me. Not very. How does a person then form a mental position of “prove me wrong?” That’s what you did. If you want to get better it’s about education and self awareness. People on here will try to nudge you in the right direction, but the realization that nobody is going to fix your problems but you has to set it.

    3). That outstanding actually. Once you realize the pain is TMS you may be one of the quick success stories. Most of us are so deep in anxiety we are about to drown in it, and we think the pain is making it worse. The mind creates ALL of it.

    Do some homework about the medical profession. Look at the history of it. Many of these doctors are straight up frauds. Look at how many were frauds through the millennia. Cutting people open to let them bleed as a cure all? They still don’t know MORe than they do. TMS iirc was the 2nd health problem I had that doctors were useless for. It made acceptance a little easier.
    Idearealist likes this.
  7. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter


    You're right and thank you for handling my emotions with care. I was 100% coming from a place of defense, and that was in defense of what I was taught and then anecdotal evidence to support those claims, like a disc squeezing out into my nerve area. We can only understand what we have all the information to understand and we are being sold a particular informational story. Its only recently that I started becoming more aware of how unconscious I have been in my conclusions and I apologize for leveraging this community to defend itself. I have grown from this community and I do often try to help others learn about TMS like my mother who suffers daily with several herniations, carpel tunnel, anxiety. I wish I could force her to do more than skim the book once.

    I did start seeking out the success stories, I read half of the back pain book last night, and I started playing with the idea that its TMS.. bending forward a bit more than I have been and seeing if it makes sense to feel pain sometimes and not others. I am convinced that its probably TMS again, the hip issue shortly followed by back problems around a particularly stressful situation in my life, and being someone with plenty of reasons for rage, a perfectionist, I am a good fit. I am so angry at life as a baseline that I am cranky without my meditativeness . Its interesting how much I didn't remember but thought I did from the book and how re-reading has really reinforced the points that made me believe in the first place, which I know is a recommendation of the treatment plan too.

    The one thing still stuck in my mind right now as potentially "non-tms" is when I walk, sometimes when my foot lands i get a quick buzz in my pinky toe and i imagine its because a nerves being pinched from rotation of the hip or something (as you mentioned, we are layman). Only happens when I do certain movement, its numb-ish otherwise.

    Yeah, I understand the drowning feeling and for anyone that feels that way (or doesn't), for me, Inner Engineering by Sadhguru is an amazing program that saved my life on par with Dr. Sarno. The first time I found TMS I was there and healed by the end of the book. The same can be said for the teachings of this program to my anxiety, one quick routine and I feel clearheaded and peaceful.

    Thanks again for being patient with me. I will post my success story within the year :)
    Tennis Tom likes this.
  8. Tms_joe

    Tms_joe Well known member

    You are going to be JUST fine! It's not surprising you are associated with Sadhguru. You clearly have a certain level of self awareness. Take it easy on yourself and increase the awareness. Awareness CAN get high enough that you can "see" the pain is mind created. Can't describe it.

    Eckhart Tolle's books sure have helped me. Sounds like it would be helpful for you. He brushes over physical pain in relation to "waking up" in a way that you realize he's talking about TMS pain. Very matter of fact, and very much just part of healing. Good luck.

    Bicepmuffins likes this.
  9. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    I'll totally check it out! Thanks!
  10. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    Update: went for a half mile run. First time since hip pain started that I felt none and lower back didn't really change, some times I couldn't feel any .. here and there it took my focus but thought about my anger and ignored it and overall could run as much as I wanted it seemed if I had better cardio. <3
    Dorado and backhand like this.

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