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Raynauds ... why?

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Lily Rose, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    Not much is said here about the phenomenon of Raynauds. It is a condition linked to primary 'conditions', such a lupus, diabetes, fibromyalgia, etc. The cause is a vascular spasm/contraction of the capillaries in the extremities. The causes are known to be from temperature intolerance and stress. One is very physical (non TMS), one is emotional (very TMS). Combined with very low blood pressure, I must constantly be on guard for the physical triggers.

    If the ambient temperature is above 73, stress will not trigger an attack.

    In weather that is cold, I may be fine, until a wind sheers across my skin. Then, no matter that my mood is completely entranced by the beauty of Winter and the glaze of crisp sparkles that blanket my yard, my body draws all available heat to my core, turning my hands into useless appendages that scream with pain, and my feet numb. Sometimes my nose and ears. Often my gums become icy (my warm tongue becomes an invaluable tool!).

    In less dramatic circumstances, simply reaching in the freezer can cause an instant recoil of blood from the surface.

    With emotional/stress/subconscious situations, an attack will be more gradual, less painful, but deeply uncomfortable. It may also cause a drop in my blood pressure, which is already low.

    Both situations can cause a drop in blood pressure and create sort of a confusion, sometimes disorientation. Both situations also generate fear.

    Thus arises my speculations ... one condition, two causes. This is the tangled web. The Gordon Knot.

    There is a wonderful book written by Stanley Keleman (1985) called Emotional Anatomy.

    From this I quote:

    These patterns of tubal pulsation establish self-identity by generating the feelings that we recognize as ourselves. They give a dimension to existence by creating an inside and an outside, a depth and a surface. This inwardness and outwardness are central in the anatomy of feelings and self-concept.

    There is a basic thought-feeling process to all perception. This is to expand, swell, reach out and then pull back, shrink, contract. We go towards the world and then we return to ourselves in a never-ending cycle. It becomes apparent that stress and distress disturb these patterns of pulsations. Sometimes there is a conflict between two poles: we reach out and shrink at the same time. We over-extend and lack the ability to pull back. Or we shrink and lack the ability to expand. Under these conditions our cells begin to lose their range of pulsation and feeling, thinking, and acting, as well as our self-identity.

    Cells reach out to the world, cells move away from the world. They take in and let out. How the cell expands and contracts is a statement of assertion. How it maintains pressure is a statement of self-perception. How it takes and gives is communication.

    Emotional Anatomy ... a statement in and of itself. Our emotions create our anatomy. I shrink from conflict. My blood vessels respond by trembling and closing down. My heart loses pressure.

    I can work on this. I can bring in the concepts of TMS.

    But how do I untangle this from the inability to generate a defense against the cold wind, or icy freezer, or even sitting quietly reading in a room that is below 72 degrees?

    On a note of smiling irony -- my husband is the complete opposite. Heat hurts him. We joke that he will end up back in Alaska, and I will end up on a Tropical Island.

    with grace and gratitude,
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
    minmink and juderocketqueen like this.
  2. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Wow Lily Rose, What a ride! I'm glad my hubby isn't a fan of winter and when we get our ducks in a line with kids and our business, we plan on moving south. I just don't like winter. As a matter of fact, I know it triggers some of my TMS. (Not anything close to what are dealing with though!) I have had to/and continue to deal with anger at the circumstances that lead us back to Montana after living down south for several years.

    Do you have good winter dress? Some of the tech outerwear really is amazing...stuff from Patagonia or REI or the like.

    Gosh, just last night, I was talking to a friend...we were wrapping up a lovely evening in a restaurant...in the parking lot saying good bye. The wind came up and chilled me down the bone. It took over an hour for me to stop shivering - even under an electric blanket. Probably a TMS overreaction, I realize!

    I hope you find your answers, dear one.
  3. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi dear Lily Rose,
    One of the many diagnoses that I had before realizing they are all TMS was Raynaud's. All I know is that since doing the work of TMS healing (8 months now) my symptoms of Raynaud's (along with all my other diagnoses) has subsided to the point of hardly ever being an issue anymore. It is very much like a miracle. I still have a few other symptoms hanging on a little (insomnia is the most persistent), but I feel hopeful they will all fall away in due time.

    I'm spending a few months in Germany right now and am able to enjoy being outside in the cold. It's wonderful and freeing....I can be in the world anywhere, anytime and feel joy. I hope the same for you.
    MWsunin12, honeybear424 and Lily Rose like this.
  4. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Ellen, I envy you being in Germany. I was there for a year in the army years ago and loved it.
    I remember a Christmas in Frankfurt am Main. The old part of the city was a Christmas card,
    the main square with fir trees and carols playing on loud speakers.
    I loved shopping in the big department stores but even more in the small shops.
    I hope you have a wonderful time enjoying the gemutlichkeit.
    MWsunin12 and Ellen like this.
  5. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Lily Rose, I have a similar problem but it is part of RSD/CRPS. I went though a hot period where the vessels in my feet were over dilated and spasming to cold now where the vessels are constricted and I don't any blood flow. Now I feel as though I have burning frostbite with painful vasospasms. Its a combo between neuropathy and vasculapothy. My feet chage colors all the time as well but I'm applying TMS approach regardless of the scarce info on this topic. I can relate to the uncertainty you must feel since you can "see" symptoms. Having said that, it stems in the brain so the same principles can be applied. There is no way I will allow this disease to take me down, because it will if I let it. People get severe atophy after awhile ugh...thank God for Sarno and other Dr's and this website who get to the root of the problem!
    MWsunin12 likes this.
  6. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    You have an excellent attitude, Miffybunny, and much courage. I fear the pain of the cold, but it always does pass. What you are dealing with is far more frightening. Being on this forum has made my fear less intense, and more importantly, given real hope. I love this -- There is no way I will allow this disease to take me down ... it is perfect. When one of us is strong, it makes all of us stronger. Thank you!

    with grace and gratitude,
  7. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    :) You are kind to say that and I'm so glad my story helps you. I think everyone on this site has courage and the willingness to work hard to overcome whatever physical challenge they are dealing with. Rather than waiting for someone to us or save us, we empower ourselves. It's also comforting when you realize that you're not alone or unique. I used to think I was some sort of freak (not 'normal") but actually millions of people have suffered more than I. You can survive and thrive!​
  8. honeybear424

    honeybear424 Well known member

    I started getting Raynaud's syndrome one day in the grocery store after my yoga class a couple of years ago. I wondered why only a few of my fingers were freezing and then turned white. I still get it, but don't worry about it. It is more of a nuisance than anything else. Dr. Sarno mentions it in his books as a TMS equivalent. I am sure it will subside in its own time.
    MWsunin12 likes this.
  9. Waterbear

    Waterbear Peer Supporter

    Literally my entire family has it. However, I also think most of us have TMS, as I learn more about it. In me, I just have cold and hands feet, all the time. I've always had it so it never stuck me as odd or bothered me, even the odd colored skin. Fortunately, it's not painful for me. My sister, however, is much worse. Her feet and hands can get quite painful and cold. I'd be interested to see if I get warmer feet as I learn about TMS.

    In the short term, my sister wears silk socks and she says they help a lot. She also has micowavable slippers that she uses at night for a bit of relief. I think her slippers have aromatherapy herbs in them too. It's nice to just smell lavender before bed sometimes.

    Good luck!
  10. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm going to ask Santa for those microwavable slippers. What a great idea!
  11. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Ellen, are you still in Germany? A great country to be in for Christmas.
    Where in Germany are you?
    I remember a beautiful Christmas in Frankfurt. Went to a German Catholic church for Christmas Eve
    and loved the carols being sung in German.

    Have a very merry Christmas.
  12. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Walt,
    I just returned home to the US from Germany a couple of days ago. I was in Bavaria (near Nuremburg) for 3 months. I feel very fortunate to have been there during the Fall and then the Christmas advent season. I attended many Christmas Markets, consumed my share of Gluhwein (mulled, spiced wine), and completely enjoyed the festive atmosphere. But it is good to be home, too.

    Frohe Weihnachten to you too, Walt!
  13. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Ellen.
    Then you have lots of recent memories of Bavaria to enjoy for the holidays.
    I loved Bavaria best of Germany, since it reminded me of the village my mother
    was born in (Landeck, Austria, in the Arlberg Alps.

    I loved visiting the Christmas Markets and little shops selling Christmas ornaments, candles, etc.

    Yes, I'm sure it also is good to be home again. Hope your holiday is merry, warm, and fuzzy,
    and pain-free.
    Ellen likes this.
  14. Birdie

    Birdie Peer Supporter

    A short off topic...Ellen, glad you enjoyed Nuremberg. Nice city, I was born there and still live in Bavaria. Gluhwein is really tasty, love it, too!
    Lily Rose, I don't suffer from Raynaud but always had very cold hands, feet and even my nose is very cold. My therapist told me it's a stress response due to fear which became chronic in my case. If the adrenal glands are exhausted due to chronic stress they don't produce proper amounts of cortisole and aldosterone. The last one is the culprit when it comes to very low blood pressure. Fortunately it's reversible, lots of people recovered from "adrenal fatigue" (=TMS).
    Ellen likes this.
  15. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    All of these responses have given me new insights. And a curiousity about Germany :)

    I am not clear on what is reversible ... the low blood pressure? Or the production of aldosterone?

    with grace and gratitude,
  16. Birdie

    Birdie Peer Supporter

    The exhaustion of the adrenal glands is reversible but it takes some time, especially if it is due to severe and prolonged trauma and not "only" due to a stressful phase in life.
  17. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    I have noticed that salt intake can make a difference. The more salt I consume, the better (warmer) I feel. If my blood pressure drops, straight consumption of salt is one of my tools.

    Takes some time .... well, anything worth having 'takes some time'. It helps us appreciate it better :)

    with grace and gratitude,
  18. Birdie

    Birdie Peer Supporter

    oh, because that's why I always have a strong craving for salt!? My husband often finds my meals to be oversalted, so I only add salt to the food on my plate :D

    What exactly do you mean with "well, anything......some time?". Sometimes I lack the exact meaning of a sentence.
  19. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    It is nice to hear that someone else has cravings for salt, as well.

    I was quoting your comment that it takes some time for things to heal ...
    I was in agreement with this. All things worth having take time and effort. If things were too easy, we would lack appreciation.

    with grace and gratitude,
  20. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I love salt too, but hide my salt shaker because I've read that too much can be unhealthy. The Mayo Clinic says we need to watch the salt shaker and sodium we get from processed foods.

    But our body needs some sodium to function properly because it maintains the right balance of fluids in our body, helps transmit nerve impulses, and influences contraction and relaxation of muscles.

    Our kidneys balance the amount of sodium storied in our body for optimal health. When our body sodium is low, our kidneys hold on to the sodium. When body sodium is high, our kidneys let out the excess in urine.

    But if our kidneys can't eliminate enough sodium it builds up in our blood. Our heart works harder and pressure is increased in our arteries. This can lead to congestive heart failure, cirrhosis and chronic kidney diseases and make it hard for our kidneys to keep sodium levels balanced.

    Some people's bodies are more sodium sensitive and they retain sodium more easily. This leads to fluid retention and increased blood pressure. If this becomes chronic, it can lead to heart disease, stroke, kidney disease, and congestive heart failure.

    Americans should limit sodium to less than 2,300 mg a day. If age 51 or older, or black, or have high blood pressure, diabetis, or chronic kidney disease, limit sodium to 1,500 mg a day. A tablespoon of salt contains 2,325 mg of sodium.
    Most Americans get about 3,400 mg of sodium a day from table salt and processed foods.

    So watch your salt intake and drink 8 glasses of water a day, as doctors recommend. And consider using low-salt products or salt substitutes.

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