Questions of psychological issues after TMS cure (physical symptoms gone)

[Booble]

Yes, I am angry and sad with him being this way with our child and blame the child's misbehavior for his anxiety and rage.

I think you need some acceptance and patience for how your partner is.
I don't see it as "blaming the child" so much as he just doesn't like it.
He has a right to feel anxiety and rage over a misbehaving child.
Maybe he needs to express that anxiety and rage differently but if you try to make him suppress it you will literally be creating a SarnoTMS situation.

A child misbehaving IS rage worthy. But still as a parent you need to find ways to accept it.
Personally I don't think your partner is going to learn to not have the rage and anxiety about it in the amount of time that the child will be a child.
So instead of working on that, I'd working on a plan for what to do when the child misbehaves and your partner is pissed off about it.

He will have to accept that the child is going to misbehave because that is what children do.
You will have to accept that it is going to bother your partner and that you are going to have to be the one handle the child in these situations.

If you are both willing to accept those two things then you can work it out.
If he will not accept that it will happen, then it will not work out.
If you will not accept that you will have to take the burden during the child's younger years, then it will not work out.



This may seem like a dumb example but I'll say it anyways. I mentioned that my husband is very similar to yours.
We have a new puppy. A puppy is even more misbehaving than a child. And that includes bites and scratches. It's what puppy's do while they are learning.
My husband doesn't like misbehaving. And he also doesn't like being the adult. He doesn't like being the bad guy. He wants to be the puppy's friend and of course gets mad when the puppy misbehaves because of that.
I have to do the training. I have to be the bad guy with the puppy. I have to be the one to stay calm and smooth things out.
And you know what? So what?!
When I was younger I'm sure I would have been upset and tried to fix the situation. Fix my husband for not acting like an adult and the leader that is required when you have a puppy. I'm sure I fretted about it with our last puppy though I only slightly remember. Now that I'm older and wiser, I realize that you pick your battles. I will take on the burden and I will not resent him for it. (well, maybe I will journal and want to beat the shit out of him for a couple of minutes).

I have nobody to rely on if I need a break and recharge for a while

If you take on the burden most of the time, you will be in a good position and so will he to take on the burden every once in awhile as a special favor.
You'll be able to say --- "I know you hate it but I really need a break. Can you take over for a couple hours while I go do xyz? I really need that break."

I know my husband would respond to that, even though in the daily scheme of things if having to do so all the time he would be going crazy.


Good luck. Raising children (and puppies!) is hard work.

 

[louaci]

Thank you Booble for your insight. I love the puppy example too.

We are well aware of my partner's needs to express that anxiety and rage, but we (especially me) wish that it could be expressed differently. That is work in progress.

"He will have to accept that the child is going to misbehave because that is what children do."- when he is calm, he could accept that, but that may not be at the unconscious level. A lot of times the children's misbehavior is interpretated by him as malignant actions like adults (purposely being rude, hurting feelings etc.), and he could not get over that when the emotions are high.

"You will have to accept that it is going to bother your partner and that you are going to have to be the one handle the child in these situations." - I am 100% accepting that, although a small part of me may long for an equal and mature partner in that regard when his negative emotions keep rolling like second or third punches to my gut.

"If you take on the burden most of the time, you will be in a good position and so will he to take on the burden every once in awhile as a special favor.
You'll be able to say --- "I know you hate it but I really need a break. Can you take over for a couple hours while I go do xyz? I really need that break."" - Still working on that and I need to ask that calmly without resentment. Or if rejected I wouldn't be going ballistic.

I could be benefit from journaling, but at the end of those long days, all I want to do is to browse the internet and watch my home language youtube videos. Something he encourages me to do and I plan to do, but not quite up to speed.

If there any more books or articles anyone could recommend, I am willing to read and learn. Thank you.

 

[Sita]

Sita, my husband was just saying how angry I’ve gotten lately. I’ve been journaling a lot. Anger was alien to me. Now it’s out of the box. I guess we will have to learn how to manage it from scratch. I think little kids normally learn this early, but I didn’t.

In my case the hormones are acting out also. So much fun...Menopause age here.

Meditation helps me a lot. I mean, A LOT. Sometimes I meditate in the bathroom for 3-5 minutes, no one can see me. I need this short session to calm down my brain/emotions or I can strangle someone and the only person alive around is my poor husband. And the cat, but she's the baby here, ha ha. Anyway...you know what I mean.

Lifting weights helps me also but I'm not in great shape now, I gained some weight (side effect of the 'lovely' menopause) and I don't have the energy anymore. As I used to. Low estrogen maybe.

 

[Booble]

@louaci I think you two will figure it out. Just don't try tooo hard. It really doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Your child will grow up and be fine. You and partner will be too. Life is too short to try and make everything go perfectly, rather than living and loving with what you've got.

I sometimes wonder how the hell I ended up with an aspergery-ish, shy, person. Never in a million years would I have expected that when I was growing up. But for all his weirdness, he's my weirdo and he's nice and he loves me and he's helpful and he let's me be the leader, and he doesn't mind all the fucked up health anxiety things about me. So, it's not what I would have thought but we've managed to have a great life together. I call him husband but we never were officially married. Living together for 39 years. I hope you and your partner live a long and happy life together as well. As they say, try not to sweat the small stuff...and it's all small stuff.

 

[NickBacarella]

Your husband's story sounds somewhat similar to mine -- even after most of my physical symptoms were gone on a regular basis, I still felt bent out of shape at times and in places that felt out of step with a normal life. Stray comments would bother me way more than I thought they should, I get outrageously upset at people committing stupid (but ultimately minor) violations of the law, etc.

All of this emotional distress was -- you guessed it! -- the result of childhood conditioning. The layers are far too deep to unpack in the space of one post, but suffice it to say I've gotten to the bottom of many of them via psychotherapy. A note about psychotherapy: I think its efficacy radically depends on 1) the general approach of the practitioner you work with and 2) their skill in applying that approach. A lot of talk-only psychotherapy misses the mark because these problems don't solely live in the body; read The Body Keeps the Score and you'll see what I mean!

In my experience, I experienced the most profound shifts in these emotional states when my therapist and I dabbled in EMDR. Here's a link with a thorough description: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/22641-emdr-therapy#:~:text=Eye%20movement%20desensitization%20and%20reprocessing%20(EMDR)%20therapy%20is%20a%20mental,or%20other%20distressing%20life%20experiences (EMDR Therapy: What It Is, Procedure & Effectiveness).

It's not hyperbole to say that I'd go through sessions and feel completely differently about a certain idea than I did at the beginning of the session. What's more, these changes were basically permanent; I'd meditate on or journal about what I'd learned, but for the most part, there was no maintenance necessary. I just moved through the world differently afterward.

I'm not a therapist so I can't rightly say if your husband is a good candidate, but I'm pretty confident that I wouldn't be writing this post as breezily if I hadn't done EMDR!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Call me skeptical

I think it's meant to be a focusing tool - like a mantra in TM, or specific breath patterns in meditation, except that someone is guiding the person to experience emotional thoughts. Similar to, but more sophisticated than tapping, maybe? I've heard success stories about EMDR from people who have been unable to experience emotional breakthroughs with talk therapy or CBT, just as Nick is indicating. I'm pretty sure that @Cactusflower is an advocate.

As long as it's not a medical intervention focused on symtpoms, and especially if it is an experience designed to enhance emotional vulnerability and calm the nervous system, I say, go for it!

 

[Booble]

I think it's meant to be a focusing tool - like a mantra in TM, or specific breath patterns in meditation, except that someone is guiding the person to experience emotional thoughts. Similar to, but more sophisticated than tapping, maybe? I've heard success stories about EMDR from people who have been unable to experience emotional breakthroughs with talk therapy or CBT, just as Nick is indicating. I'm pretty sure that @Cactusflower is an advocate.

As long as it's not a medical intervention focused on symtpoms, and especially if it is an experience designed to enhance emotional vulnerability and calm the nervous system, I say, go for it!

I deleted my post. I don't want to be a downer.

 

[louaci]

I wonder being aware of being grumpy and why being grumpy is sufficient. From being aware of being grumpy to getting out of grumpiness sometimes takes will and efforts. Would that be part of the TMS thinking?

 

[Booble]

I wonder being aware of being grumpy and why being grumpy is sufficient. From being aware of being grumpy to getting out of grumpiness sometimes takes will and efforts. Would that be part of the TMS thinking?

I think grumpy doesn't have to be bad if you can use your grumpy to find some of the hidden stuff.

 

[louaci]

I think grumpy doesn't have to be bad if you can use your grumpy to find some of the hidden stuff.

Thank you. I also wonder if a person is well aware their emotions (hidden stuff but not necessarily cheerful all the time) is in fact physically healthier than a person who is always upbeat and positive, since the latter may have repressed or suppressed a lot of negative emotions.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

@louaci, there is a concept called toxic positivity, which I prefer to call "false happy face positivity". I copied the following quote into my list of resources many years ago:

Dianne J. Moore, writer, blogger:
"There are many spiritual groups and hot selling items... that imply you must denounce all negative thoughts and allow only positive thoughts to enter your mind. These teachings warn that if you don't ward off negative emotions, you will draw negativity into your life. I'm all for positive thoughts, and on one hand, I believe you can manifest what you want in life by staying focused and upbeat, but to deny negative thoughts that are charged with emotion will only bring ruin. Change comes from truth. You must look at the truth, feel the feelings, or they will hold you hostage until you get brave enough to deal with them. I've seen too many teachers, teachings and products abuse this process by telling people to ignore all negative thoughts. That's called denial, not truth."

 

[Booble]

Thank you. I also wonder if a person is well aware their emotions (hidden stuff but not necessarily cheerful all the time) is in fact physically healthier than a person who is always upbeat and positive, since the latter may have repressed or suppressed a lot of negative emotions.

I don't know. That's a toughie.
I do know I'd rather be upbeat and positive all the time than grumpy.
Even if it means symptoms, in the long run I'd rather spend each day being happy than being grumpy.
Life is too short to be grumpy.

 

[louaci]

I don't know. That's a toughie.
I do know I'd rather be upbeat and positive all the time than grumpy.
Even if it means symptoms, in the long run I'd rather spend each day being happy than being grumpy.
Life is too short to be grumpy.

I share similar attitude but I guess I have not experienced chronical pain. My partner has experienced chronical back and neck pain and he would try everything to stop the pain even at the cost of being grumpy. My TMS may be suppressed deeper, like skin rashes, period issues, procrastination etc.

 

[louaci]

Your husband's story sounds somewhat similar to mine -- even after most of my physical symptoms were gone on a regular basis, I still felt bent out of shape at times and in places that felt out of step with a normal life. Stray comments would bother me way more than I thought they should, I get outrageously upset at people committing stupid (but ultimately minor) violations of the law, etc.

All of this emotional distress was -- you guessed it! -- the result of childhood conditioning. The layers are far too deep to unpack in the space of one post, but suffice it to say I've gotten to the bottom of many of them via psychotherapy. A note about psychotherapy: I think its efficacy radically depends on 1) the general approach of the practitioner you work with and 2) their skill in applying that approach. A lot of talk-only psychotherapy misses the mark because these problems don't solely live in the body; read The Body Keeps the Score and you'll see what I mean!

In my experience, I experienced the most profound shifts in these emotional states when my therapist and I dabbled in EMDR. Here's a link with a thorough description: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/22641-emdr-therapy#:~:text=Eye%20movement%20desensitization%20and%20reprocessing%20(EMDR)%20therapy%20is%20a%20mental,or%20other%20distressing%20life%20experiences (EMDR Therapy: What It Is, Procedure & Effectiveness).

It's not hyperbole to say that I'd go through sessions and feel completely differently about a certain idea than I did at the beginning of the session. What's more, these changes were basically permanent; I'd meditate on or journal about what I'd learned, but for the most part, there was no maintenance necessary. I just moved through the world differently afterward.

I'm not a therapist so I can't rightly say if your husband is a good candidate, but I'm pretty confident that I wouldn't be writing this post as breezily if I hadn't done EMDR!

Thank you for sharing. My partner read about EMDR a while ago and in the process of finding a local therapist. His current therapist is well aware of Dr. Sarno's work and works fine in finding his schemas, but so far it has not changed a lot of his fundamental emotions (maybe flex the feelings more than before to be less rigid). We will see how it goes.

 

[louaci]

I wonder if anybody has tried psychotherapy or by journaling to find their psychological schemas. The schemas determine how we feel emotionally and would affect physical symptoms, would that sound a reasonable logic? Recently my partner found one of his schemas through therapy to be the internalized feelings of being bad, unacceptable, unworthy etc. It would be triggered by a lot of "constructive feedback", like you should do this, you should have done this, you are supposed to be acting this way, etc. As soon as he hears such comments, he feels he is bad, not good enough, not accepted, and then the internal anxiety and rage emerges, which would quickly turn into physical symptoms like insomnia, short of breath, fatigue etc. and it would take a few days to subside with intensive journaling and physical activity like running. I, unfortunately, am quite used to saying "you should do this!" from my upbringing and conditioning, which would bring up clashes. It is good that we finally realize this but there is still quite a bit of work to do. I am curious to hear others' experience on finding ones' psychological schemas. Thank you.

 

[louaci]

Update: After a few outbursts of rage for child misbehaving and a 10-day care of the sick/tired child by my partner, he finally went on a solo vacation and that was the experiment we do for removing him from the triggers. I was able to handle my child fine, some transient misbehaving, but quickly passed. We talked most peacefully over the phone during his vacation. One night he was triggered by the child's babytalk (mimicking how another child from a broken family talked) and it took a little while to settle. Another night he didn't like to see in the video that the child threw something to me (it stopped quickly and he was peaceful later), and we hung up quickly. I didn't feel the nervousness and anxiety to make the child not upset my partner every single second. My partner didn't see the triggers and missed us especially the child. The vacation was cut short because one of the hotels smelled bad. He returned home early and found one of the drains stunk as soon as he entered the house. He texted me that the house was a mess and I felt hurt and became defensive. He regretted saying that and my defensive words made him feel guilty. His physical symptoms returned (wrist pain, anxiety, etc.). He exercised vigorously to avoid outburst in rage. Later the child was mostly absorbed in youtube and child play and paid little attention to daddy after a long school day. The child flipped his glasses when he got home after playing with another child and that triggered my partner. I gently stopped the child and the child was peaceful afterwards. He talked a few minutes nicely with my partner before bed. When my partner told me he was very upset with all physical symptoms afterwards, I felt very sad. Even vigorous exercises still left him symptomatic. I tried to find explanation for the rage but couldn't (maybe that was in vain). This morning the child woke up and talked a few minutes nicely with my partner. Then he got somewhat restless since he wanted me and the partner to send him to the bus stop. We did, and when a group of kids gathered and chatted the child was whining a little, and my partner walked away before the bus came. I felt sad when I saw other kids hugged their parents especially dad before going on the bus. I think my partner handles as best as he could, he removed himself from the triggers quickly, exercised to prevent rage outbursts to others, but he still had physical symptoms and he really didn't like it. I felt sad and somehow responsible for that and the idea to help him eliminate physical symptoms really exhausted me. By the way, he read this thread and really appreciated Booble's comments. He felt understood. I want to hear about your thoughts and insights. Thank you.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Okay, you asked for thoughts and insights. I have followed your posts, and it sounds like all three of you need individual and family therapy, which is not what this forum is for.

I have to be honest, @louaci - I think it's time for you to stop asking us to analyze or fix your partner. If he is truly interested in the personal vulnerability required to do this work, he would be here in person. He's not here, but he sends messages of "appreciation" via you? That's fucked up and manipulative. It's also meaningless. It's a distraction. And let's be very clear: you are enabling this dysfunction and manipulation. You're using him as a distraction against truly acknowledging and experiencing your own emotional conflicts and distress. This is what we humans do, and it's time for you to stop and do something else.

The first step is to stop subjecting us to long and irrelevant descriptions of your kid's behavior and your family dynamics as if you are a helpless and innocent bystander. This is the same behavior as someone who goes into lengthy detail about their physical symptoms. It's completely irrelevant, and you are using them both as a distraction to avoid looking at YOUR negative repressed emotions.

Your kid may need therapy as a result of the obvious dysfunction in the relationship between his two parents. And wasn't couples therapy recommended to you quite a while ago?

Bottom line: we are here to support YOUR personal recovery from chronic health conditions, not someone else's.