Question on how to reach a TMS cure

[Clover]

I am newer to the forum, but not to TMS and not to Dr. Sarno’s work. I have started working through the SEP, and I have been reading many posts on here.

So I am wondering if I am thinking things correctly- I have many of the TMS personality traits. I understand the TMS symptoms are covering the rage my subconscious feels mostly due to these personality traits. By journaling, you are tapping into those emotions and seeing these personality traits.

Ok here is the question- is this where the cure to TMS lies? The more you become familiar with your personality traits and better support yourself (for example- as a goodist, you begin to set boundaries for yourself so you aren’t being taken advantage of), the more TMS becomes “cured”- the more the symptoms alleviate and the less you “need” them as a distraction from the emotions because you have recognized your emotions and better support yourself? Am I thinking this through correctly? Although I have been familiar with TMS for a while, I have never pieced this together like this before. Thoughts?

 

[Cactusflower]

There are a variety of factors that are all part of addressing the anxiety and thought patterns which create TMS.
PART of it is learning how your personality traits can create triggers which create your inner stress and lead to certain thought patterns. The emotional repression may or may not have a lot to do with personality traits, and that doesn't matter at all.
Anxiety is the driver, which Dr. Sarno felt was created by subconscious rage. Once again, it really doesn't matter how the rage is created - we all have it, it's part of the human condition (The ID, in Freud's theories) - however we often learn that the drivers of the Id or subconscious are "bad" and are often not taught ways in which to fulfill or express our needs appropriately (either personality or learned behavior, again, it's not really important why/how). It's important to acknowledge that we have these parts of our personalities which we did not think are part of our makeup - we perceive we are one way or need to be one way but find it hard to acknowledge the reality is, we are not truly that image which was created out of need. Again, this is only PART of the equation and may or may not be an important factor. Other "negative" perceived emotions can come into play eg. grief
For some folks, it's their ability to deal with external stressors and how they think about their position in these stressors (eg. a single mother or father trying hard to be the "good" parent, to be the sole bread winner, to be indispensable at work so they doesn't get fired. ..)
Sarno also adds to this dealing with our fears - which can be generalized (which they usually are if there is rage and anger) but he specifically talks about the physical fears related to TMS.

This is where TMS is personal. We are all individuals.

Trying to "figure it all out" is part of the TMS distraction and isn't necessary. The SEP will take you through all off the work which includes noticing triggers, learning how to deal more effectively with stressors, being more comfortable with emotional and physical vulnerabilities, seeing how all of this effects the nervous system and fight/flight/freeze and noticing any of your own habits and thoughts which feed the "tms beast".

Don't worry about getting ahead of yourself. The premise is quite simple, our minds just find this all so hard to accept and your brain will keep trying to send up the smoke signals to keep you looking inward by sending you to solve problems which don't exist.

 

[Clover]

Thank you so much for that thorough reply. That helps. It also leads me wondering- then is “cure” a loose word? Maybe you can cure yourself of chronic pain, but the symptoms can and will shift - digestive, anxiety, skin, etc- I have definitely read the success stories of those who cured their chronic pain. When the chronic pain is cured, does that also cure the digestive, anxiety, skin etc? Or do we keep navigating new symptoms off and on throughout life because of the rage from childhood? Or can that be fully processed? Or maybe what you are saying is I am thinking too much, and if that is the case, this is typical for me so … guilty as charged. I will read and reread this a few times.

 

[Cactusflower]

What you must recognize, and will over time, is that emotions are nothing but physical sensations in the body caused by chemical release. That's it.
Amazing, isn't it.
Many of us with TMS learned to push these physical sensations away - remember, they are emotions and we repress emotions. We simply thought that not feeling anything kept us safe, when really it was quite the opposite. It's not our fault at all, it just happened (and there are lots of theories about why, but again, while you are doing the work, it's not really all that important).
We also don't want to feel pain so badly we get totally desperate, fearful, full of anxiety, catastrophic, worry, ruminate on what we did to get here etc. however the things we think around the pain are just thoughts and they really don't much matter.
It is also amazing how much crap we think doesn't matter (which leads back to a lot of those personality traits which generate thoughts and ideas that often essentially don't matter even if we think they hold much importance).
Yes, "symptoms" can shift - however "symptoms" are not always the same as sensations and I see some people mix those up and that is where us TMS folks can back pedal.
We feel sensations and judge them as frightening etc. and then they become a symptom. I'm still at this stage and working very hard to train my brain to stop this cycle it has learned. I can feel sensations and be safe. I can feel a sensation, react and judge it as unsafe and then change my mind and teach my mind and body that the soft and kind response change of mind to safety is absolutely safe - I don't have to be stuck in a symptom (flair up, imperative or whatever anyone wants to call it).
One of the most important this you can do is notice: just for seconds, notice the changes you are making and congratulate yourself on the change - the way you responded softly and kindly to yourself, redirected a destructive thought pattern to yourself or others, felt even the inkling of emotions within the body over reacting to these things and congratulate yourself. Approach learning all of these skills with curiosity and wonder and it will absolutely change your mindset.

 

[Clover]

Ok I think that is the newer concept for me that I have to wrap my head around- “emotions are nothing but physical sensations in the body caused by chemical release” and when I think that way I can clearly see TMS. That is a newer understanding for me - not how we are taught to believe for mental health.


Another new perspective you have shined a light on for me is “symptoms are not always the same as sensations” - I am sure I lump them together.

I, too, am also at the stage where I am trying to tell myself that I can feel a sensation and it is safe. Sometimes it is easier to do than others, but I am aware and practicing that perspective.

I do not give myself enough compassion and praise for the areas where I take a positive step. I am aware as well and working on that too. But I agree, the more I can do that the more safety I convey to my self and body. I am in the beginnings of the SEP and hoping that will provide even more insight and and perspective for me. I have the bad habit of overthinking things - which I know is a distraction technique- I will do it without initially realizing it- but I like what you said about approaching things with curiosity and wonder. I will keep that in my mind. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me!

 

[feduccini]

the more TMS becomes “cured”- the more the symptoms alleviate

One thing that I see recurring in the success stories is people telling the physical symptoms got harder for a while before quickly receding, maybe some kind of last extinction burst. Jim Prussack sometimes says "it gets darker before the dawn". Also the director from This Might Hurt tells how people usually plateau for a while, and then gets dramatically better. And I think it was Dan Buglio who said physical symptoms would always be the last thing to go.

So that's the catch of TMS treatment, I guess. The symptoms are deceptive, trying to elude you you're not getting better, and make you stay "safer" in bed instead of creating a new identity and reality. I saw a recent Lorimer Moseley video where he tells they've shifted their approach, since it was becoming clear the big issue in TMS treatment was how they had to communicate better to patients what is happening to them.

 

[Clover]

One thing that I see recurring in the success stories is people telling the physical symptoms got harder for a while before quickly receding, maybe some kind of last extinction burst. Jim Prussack sometimes says "it gets darker before the dawn". Also the director from This Might Hurt tells how people usually plateau for a while, and then gets dramatically better. And I think it was Dan Buglio who said physical symptoms would always be the last thing to go.

So that's the catch of TMS treatment, I guess. The symptoms are deceptive, trying to elude you you're not getting better, and make you stay "safer" in bed instead of creating a new identity and reality. I saw a recent Lorimer Moseley video where he tells they've shifted their approach, since it was becoming clear the big issue in TMS treatment was how they had to communicate better to patients what is happening to them.

Are you thinking then after the extinction burst - that’s how I have heard it put- then symptoms “resolve”? Also you mention staying “safer in bed” instead of “creating a new identity and reality” - would you say that’s the major key to healing symptoms for good? The creation of a new identity/reality?

 

[feduccini]

Are you thinking then after the extinction burst - that’s how I have heard it put- then symptoms “resolve”?

I don't think so. I think they might happen several times before neuroplasticity really kicks in. Also there's people who heal from TMS without having it.

Also you mention staying “safer in bed” instead of “creating a new identity and reality” - would you say that’s the major key to healing symptoms for good? The creation of a new identity/reality?

By reality change, I mean getting out of the hopelesness that TMS imposes and progressively getting life back. That tends to stir the unconscious mind quite a bit. This one I can relate because it's what I'm facing now. Going out more, doing more exercises, keep doing what I'm doing when the pain grows etc. TMS fights back and it plays dirt. It doesn't want you to move much. The first time I felt I was getting better, the day after I woke up with a spasm on my back out of nowhere.
This one for sure is a major key. You won't be able to convince your brain you're safe if you don't face life.

And by identity change, that's something that pops up a lot in the talks about trauma healing. I think it was Mosely who said that the single thing he's always seen in the people who healed was some sort of personality change.
I don't know if this one is key for recovery, but it surely prevents it better from relapsing later on.

 

[Clover]

I don't think so. I think they might happen several times before neuroplasticity really kicks in. Also there's people who heal from TMS without having it.


By reality change, I mean getting out of the hopelesness that TMS imposes and progressively getting life back. That tends to stir the unconscious mind quite a bit. This one I can relate because it's what I'm facing now. Going out more, doing more exercises, keep doing what I'm doing when the pain grows etc. TMS fights back and it plays dirt. It doesn't want you to move much. The first time I felt I was getting better, the day after I woke up with a spasm on my back out of nowhere.
This one for sure is a major key. You won't be able to convince your brain you're safe if you don't face life.

And by identity change, that's something that pops up a lot in the talks about trauma healing. I think it was Mosely who said that the single thing he's always seen in the people who healed was some sort of personality change.
I don't know if this one is key for recovery, but it surely prevents it better from relapsing later on.

Alright this is reassuring that the neuroplasticity takes a while. So …. Patience…. And a reminder to not get so frustrated when it comes back. It’s the mental stuff I find the most frustrating even moreso than pain.


Hmmm. I am not familiar with Mosely, though I have seen his name mentioned around the forum as I have searched posts. But that is very interesting that he said he always has seen personality changes in those that healed. That makes sense. And speaks volumes. Thank you for sharing that. I should look into his work too.

 

[Cactusflower]

“It’s the mental stuff I find the most frustrating even moreso than pain.”

That’s pretty much everyone because TMS is the emotional and mental stuff. It’s the suffering we never even realized was a kind of suffering. Most of us just thought of it as normal.
Frustration is a form of anger, so try to manage the frustration by not hanging on to it (and don’t stuff it down!). Let yourself open to the frustration and feel the energy that it creates. Then sooth yourself with the idea of patience, that over time this will all come together for you, that you’re learning a lot and all of it rails against your previous knowledge and belief system.. and that will change.
I really don’t think it’s a personality “change” one sees but rather an ability to express the true personality, the true person they are with much more freedom.

 

[Clover]

“It’s the mental stuff I find the most frustrating even moreso than pain.”

That’s pretty much everyone because TMS is the emotional and mental stuff. It’s the suffering we never even realized was a kind of suffering. Most of us just thought of it as normal.
Frustration is a form of anger, so try to manage the frustration by not hanging on to it (and don’t stuff it down!). Let yourself open to the frustration and feel the energy that it creates. Then sooth yourself with the idea of patience, that over time this will all come together for you, that you’re learning a lot and all of it rails against your previous knowledge and belief system.. and that will change.
I really don’t think it’s a personality “change” one sees but rather an ability to express the true personality, the true person they are with much more freedom.

Yes I always just thought it was normal- the mental stuff especially.

Thank you so much for the wisdom on frustration. I will work with that to try to catch myself before I get too deep into frustration.

Ah yes- your true personality. That makes total sense.

Thank you so much!

 

[Diana-M]

Frustration is a form of anger, so try to manage the frustration by not hanging on to it (and don’t stuff it down!). Let yourself open to the frustration and feel the energy that it creates. Then sooth yourself with the idea of patience, that over time this will all come together for you,

Wow! I really love this! This is right at my crossroads right now.

I am not familiar with Mosely, though I have seen his name mentioned around the forum

Check out this talk by Moseley. He’s not only brilliant, but also entertaining. He clarified so much for me!

TMS fights back and it plays dirt. It doesn't want you to move much.

oh, how true this is! And I’m realizing that the battle really is coming down to me not shrinking from the pain and living anyway …and that’s hard but I think it’s the only way.

the single thing he's always seen in the people who healed was some sort of personality change.

in the eight months I’ve been on this forum and working on my healing, I’ve had to make so many drastic life changes that you could almost call it a personality change. I’ve had to deliberately let go of perfectionism, overdoing everything, catastrophic thinking, brooding, extreme goals, wrong perspectives. I’ve had to drastically quiet myself down, slow my pace. I’ve had to let go of people that hurt me and change what I do and think day-to-day. I would say it’s been quite a lot of change —so maybe somebody would call it a personality change. But really, I still feel like me, only more free. (The pain is still hanging on tho!)

 

[Clover]

Wow! I really love this! This is right at my crossroads right now.

Check out this talk by Moseley. He’s not only brilliant, but also entertaining. He clarified so much for me!

oh, how true this is! And I’m realizing that the battle really is coming down to me not shrinking from the pain and living anyway …and that’s hard but I think it’s the only way.

in the eight months I’ve been on this forum and working on my healing, I’ve had to make so many drastic life changes that you could almost call it a personality change. I’ve had to deliberately let go of perfectionism, overdoing everything, catastrophic thinking, brooding, extreme goals, wrong perspectives. I’ve had to drastically quiet myself down, slow my pace. I’ve had to let go of people that hurt me and change what I do and think day-to-day. I would say it’s been quite a lot of change —so maybe somebody would call it a personality change. But really, I still feel like me, only more free. (The pain is still hanging on tho!)

Oh thank you for sharing all of this! Especially the last paragraph on your journey. I am sure as you continue to do the work, the pain will fully resolve- I believe that for you and for all of us! Thank you for posting that video, I will check that out!

 

[Diana-M]

I am sure as you continue to do the work, the pain will fully resolve- I believe that for you and for all of us! Thank you for posting that video, I will check that out!

I think you’re right! And Dan Buglio says that the symptoms are the last to go. Claire Weekes, who has the best books you can ever find on anxiety, which is TMS, says give it time …give it time …it takes time to heal.

 

[feduccini]

So …. Patience…. And a reminder to not get so frustrated when it comes back.

Patience indeed. I try not to cling too much to the great 1-month-recovery stories. I understand Gordon and Schubbiner put a lot of those in their books because it shines light in a treatment that's still overlooked by the medical community, and to give hope to people. But for me they tend to backfire because I got frustrated I'm still doing the work (while I should be proud instead).

But really, I still feel like me, only more free.

I think that's exactly that. You're still you, but free from some burdens that would limit your self-knowledge (and create danger feelings too).

 

[Diana-M]

But for me they tend to backfire because I got frustrated I'm still doing the work (while I should be proud instead).

I agree, @feduccini ! Slow but steady wins the race. sometimes I say to myself, even if it took years to heal, it would be worth it because Western medicine would probably take me that much time to have two or three surgeries or whatever else and then realize I’m not gonna heal …so I don’t think there’s really a shortcut here. It really is work but such an amazing journey. I’m glad you’re on it with me!

that video clip you added above is A-mazing! I had to watch it two times what a freaky and true concept. Every time we change something about ourselves part of us has to die and we resist that —we sure do. I noticed every step of the way so far for me, especially letting go of big goals that have been unrealistic all my life and just quieting down. I still have a long way to go …thanks for the video!

 

[Cactusflower]

When I started to do the SEP and then the Pain Program on this wiki, I got frustrated that I was not doing much better by the end of each program.. but then I changed my attitude, the the fact that these are not designed to “cure” you in 45 days, or whatever.. they are simply courses that offer knowledge so you learn these skills they teach, for a lifetime.
Instantly, so much internal pressure and stress was gone.

 

[Clover]

@feduccini - thank you for posting that video clip. Really good stuff. It is SO hard. The guy in the video is right - no one wants to let go of that part of the self to become someone new - to experience that kind of “death”. I will honestly admit I felt resistance coming up when watching it. But I know he is right and that’s what has to happen. The known seems safer than the unknown, even if we know it will cause pain or anxiety or depression.


@Cactusflower - that’s the crux of it all, internal pressure, right? That’s exactly what I was doing with this post. I know I need to accept my mind and body as is in the present moment and not put that pressure on myself to be perfectly “fixed” or “cured”- the perfectionism is still strong in me, but I have more awareness and can change my viewpoint

@Diana-M have a long way to go to. It helps to know I am not the only one

 

[JanAtheCPA]

This is a great thread, everyone - you ask good questions, @Clover. I'll just jump in to confirm that self-pressure is a massive source of symptoms, due to the self-judgement that follows the pressure we put on ourselves. As Nicole Sachs says, it's essential to always treat yourself with patience and kindness, which you can choose to do no matter what kind of day you are having.

 

[Cactusflower]

I saw an interview with a TMS therapist who suggests channeling your traits to benefit you. It’s a great way to send safety messages to the brain and break habits like perfectionism in ways that ate detrimental. So now my home is well organized, my renovation team working on my home is on top of it, and I am the only person I know with over 10,000 records and can find any specific record in about 3 seconds