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Oxygen Deprivation

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by D. R. Martin, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. D. R. Martin

    D. R. Martin Peer Supporter

    I'm curious to know what the current thought is about Dr. Sarno's theory of oxygen deprivation as a mechanism of TMS. I recently heard about another theory: That it's a phenomenon of the brain and nerve pathways, like phantom limb pain. What do you experts out there think?
  2. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    I could say what Dr. Sarno and his inner circle thinks of "nerve pathways," but it wouldn't be right for me to speak for them. All I can say is, that there's proof of oxygen deprivation in pain. There's no proof of nerve pathways and pain. It's conjecture that sounds good. There will have to be much more research to see how far down the rabbit hole it all goes. For now, there's nothing new beyond oxygen deprivation at play, it's the current state of TMS as it stands.
  3. tarala

    tarala Well known member

    Theory aside, I find the oxygen deprivation idea more encouraging for becoming active again. When I think about walkimg or running (just started a jogging program, a first for me!), and imagine all that rich blood pumping into a deprived area, I am thrilled. Imagining having to overcome long established nerve pathways, which actually makes sense to me by the way, leaves me feeling more discouraged. After all, theories are just things in the mind. I think I will pick the ones that inspire me most :)
  4. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Maybe just enjoy the jogging. Let it lift your spirit and if it gives you more oxygen and that helps your TMS healing,
    so much the better.

    I've been watching the Weather Channel and they say even the devastating floods in the Boulder, Colorado area
    have not kept joggers from their morning run. Today it must have been more like a morning slosh.
  5. yb44

    yb44 Beloved Grand Eagle

    I had a traditional physiotherapist confirm that my pain would subside once blood flow and thus oxygen returned to my sciatic nerve. Ah ha, I thought, further confirmation of the oxygen deprivation theory. The same physiotherapist would never have accepted the cause of my pain as repressed rage but hey ho, I was quite pleased with what she said about the oxygen.
    Richsimm22 likes this.
  6. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    She didn't seem to wonder what caused the oxygen deprivation. Maybe give her a copy of Dr. Sarno's book for Christmas.
  7. Endless luke

    Endless luke Well known member

    I think the oxygen deprivation theory seems supported by the evidence but I think a more direct way of thinking about it is just that it's a learned stimulus/response where your brain has programmed itself to feel pain in many situations. If you think about it in terms of oxygen deprivation you may still look for a physical cure which is unlikely to work.
  8. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I think knowing that TMS pain results from oxygen deprivation is good to know if one wants to know the
    physiology of the cause of their pain, but it's more helpful in healing to focus on the repressed emotions that
    caused the oxygen deprivation. I'm not scientific. Luke, you're right-on that a physical cure is unlikely to heal us.
  9. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes, Walt, wearing an oxygen mask does not get rid of sciatic pain. That's because it's the autonomic nervous system that controls blood pressure, respiration and oxygen supply to the extremities and that's all extremely susceptible to repressed unconscious emotions like anger and rage. Address you repressed emotions and sooth yourself. Don't invest in a home oxygen respirator system.
    MontanaMom likes this.
  10. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I love the way you put it, Bruce. Some complicated things can be understood clearly with a little humor.

    I was thinking of having my dog Annie wear an oxygen mask for Halloween, but now she will be a jogger instead,
    in running shorts and t-shirt.
  11. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm wondering where the 'tension' in TMS comes in to play? I heard an MD recently state that his theory about TMS is that since the emotions are stored in the body, the body actually tenses muscles to repress them and this leads to pain. I don't recall what Sarno said about the role of muscle tension. Interested in people's thoughts on this....
  12. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    This sounds very much in keeping with the theory of different areas of the body storing repressed emotions described in Chinese medicine. Hence, the calves retain sadness, the aural "kidney" area holds repressed "fear". I'm not familiar with their whole anatomy chart of emotions, but your MD seems to be saying something similar, Ellen.
    Ellen likes this.
  13. James59

    James59 Well known member

    In Healing Back Pain in the second paragraph of chapter 2, Dr. Sarno explains that the word "tension" in TMS lingo refers to "emotions that are generated in the unconscious mind and that, to a large extent, remain there."

    Interesting idea, though, that emotions are stored in the body. I'm not sure if that's entirely accurate, but in my observation emotions seem to be felt in the body, ranging from warm fuzzy feelings to sudden chills to some forms of disorientation, and a lot of other things. At the risk of venturing into socially sensitive territory, I would also include orgasms in that list.
    Ellen likes this.
  14. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Since this conversation has drifted into "emotions being stored in the body" I have a question.

    My naturopath and a few good friends of mine practice "The Emotion Code." It was created by a chiropractor who believes through muscle testing, a practitioner can hone in on destructive emotions that are literally trapped in various parts of the body and then, voila!, pull them out by a magnet.

    I was getting acupuncture from the naturopath but told her I didn't want to pursue anymore modalities that would support I am dealing with a physical issues. (Though she would argue that "chi" is non physical.)

    So she did an "emotion code" session. I thought it was a bunch of bunk but I'm trying to keep an open mind since even TMS sounds dubious to one seeks quantifiable evidence.

    There seems to be some overlap in theory...emotions reeking havoc with the body.
    Anyone here have any experience in this?
  15. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    My initial reaction to the Emotion Code is that it is probably a placebo. I don't really no anything about it, so I admit I could be way off about it, however it does seem to change how you repress your emotions. In the end, the TMS approach is all about changing how you handle emotions. No one else can do this for you. The books, doctors, people on this forum can provide you with the information, but you have to take it and begin to allow your emotions to be present yourself. Looking for outside solutions will only prevent you from allowing your emotions to be present.
    Ellen, plum and James59 like this.
  16. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Forest, Thank you for your input. That is what I was thinking. I try to keep an open mind about this but this was just too airy fairy for me. And I wish things were so easy...just rub a magnet down your spine and your damaging emotions are pulled out.
    There are plenty of people however say this thing is really effective but yeah...I think it's placebo. And there is value in a caring human being ministering to another hurting person. But it is no substitute for working through repressed rage.
  17. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    MontanaMom, it sounds like cr*p to me. I'm all for loving hands and care but at some point this devolves into theories which even fairies run from. I'm from a long line of Pagans, many of whom had 'the touch' but to dress that tender ability to cherish another into kick-starting their healing in fancy dress continues to annoy me. There absolutely are mysteries and secrets but this is not one of them. The unconscious adores ritual and symbolism and on that level, as Forest flags, placebos are fair game but beyond that is the chance to seize the reins and make deep and enduring change.
  18. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    What about Dr. Schu's work? Doesn't he advance the theory of pain pathways? I thought it was a deepening of Sarno's 'black box' as opposed to a contradiction.
  19. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Plum, I love your candor! "....which even fairies run from...." Thank you so much for adding to my confidence to say "no, thanks." I have good friends - highly educated, mind you - who practice this. They've picked up on my skepticism already.

    Re: Pain pathways. I find this very intriguing. It seems to me that muscle memory would be similar to a nerve pathway delivery pain. Or similar to how a pianist will lay down new neural pathways as they learn concertos. (I suppose that's still muscle memory too.)

    It will be exciting to see what the research uncovers on this fascinating topic.
  20. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    Thank you m'dear. Sometimes education renders us daft, it knocks all common sense and imagination from us. Surely the sagest beings on our sweet planet are the children. All this aside, I am certain we *know* the genesis of what ails. Whether we want to 'go there' is a different matter entirely. Sometimes I think tms healing is all about screwing up the courage, that and nurturing compassion twofold.

    Muscle memory makes complete sense. Dancers, musicians, drivers...all rely on it. Agree completely that the fruits of research will be fascinating. I believe Dr. Schu has been given mucho dinero to investigate further but we shall have to prod Forest for the details.
    tarala and MontanaMom like this.

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