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Opiate pain med detoxing during TMS therapy

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by ricky26, Sep 12, 2017.

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  1. ricky26

    ricky26 New Member

    Please let me know of anyone's experience of the process and journey of TMS recovery along with tapering of the opiate pain meds. I have been on the pain meds and became physically dependent after my two unsuccessful surgeries which only made the symptom MUCH worse. On my own initiative, I have tapered down to only 2 mg/day of Suboxone, the narcotic drug that helps you get off of the stronger, more dangerous ones. I truly almost died from too much heavy doses after years of building tolerance to less powerful meds and doses, which is typical of how victims like myself get hooked, innocently.
    Yet, now, I have discovered and firmly believe TMS, I am a classic case with all of the symptoms and character/personality traits (goodism the worst). I have on board with this for months now and seeing some slow but encouraging improvements,
    Yet,it becomes QUITE complicated because the TMS is all psychological based , and the drugs of course, are mind altering. There has been the question, do I focus solely on TMS for healing now with the meds, and address the detox after, or detox now and clean my mind now and later focus on TMS. It is a complicated mix as one effects the other. The detox process is like hell, by the way and my back pain goes off the chart when I am dosing down.
    It would seem to me to be a fairly common question with so many chronic back pain back sufferers resorting to opiate pain meds for relief, and then discovering TMS while still on the meds. However I don't see many threads on this.
    Thanks for replies, as I am desperate for both healings, back pain as well as OFF ALL PAIN MEDS!
    (Anyone used medical cannabis for help on getting off which is a growing,
    healthy option now ? )
     
    Lily Rose likes this.
  2. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    I was on gabapentin and vicodin for a looooong time. For me, detoxing from the narcotic was not nearly as brutal as the gabapentin. The gabapentin caused severe restless legs, arms, joints, twitches, and just general misery for weeks and weeks. I used Catnip tea (it is a sedative and anti-anxiety) to come off of it. At the time, cannabis was not legal, or I would have used the CBD oil then. I use it now to keep the anxiety down so I can cope with clinical depression. The pain itself fluctuates. Being pharma-free is great. I do miss my nightly alcohol drink, but it is too easy to rely on that, so I haven't had any alcohol in years. Alcohol is far more dangerous than cannabis (which isn't dangerous at all, actually).

    Narcotics mess with the head. I liked them not for the pain relief (didn't work), but because I would not care so much about the pain.

    I love my nightly tea, which my dog also gets for her anxiety (and now double doses to keep her quiet as she badly broke her hind foot and must remain as inactive as possible). Some people have not had great luck with herbs. My body responds wonderfully to most of Nature's gifts.

    I also do not deprive myself of nurturing comforts, such as delicious heat on my body (I am almost always cold), and lots of pillows to cuddle with. When I'm thus pampered, my pain softens. Some people say that these are crutches. I say that I am teaching my body that it is safe and treasured and that I will do all that I can to gently soothe it.

    Go very very slowly with the detox, and have some other nurturing option, like an herbal tea. Warmth, with some sea salt and honey makes the body feel more relaxed. For me, if I try to take away something without replacing it with something else, it creates a negative loop. It is important to create a sense of safety for your body. It knows you are coming off meds and it is very very very scared. This is why it is so important to envelope yourself with extra kindness.

    Be gentle.
    Be kind.
    And be very patient with yourself.

    You can do this, but it will take some time.

    .... always with Love and Gratitude ^_^
     
    Ellen likes this.
  3. fbcoach

    fbcoach Peer Supporter

    Hi Ricky,
    Back in '09 I was on Morphine (200-500mgs/daily), along with the maximum dose of Lyrica for 1 1/2 years. I went off "cold turkey". I was the worse "hell" I had ever been thru. I couldn't eat. Food made me sick. I slept from midnight til about 2:00am, and my body was racked with pain 24/7. I forced myself to start walking a mile every day in July to help ease the extreme anxiety. I built up to 5-10mile daily walks. I gave myself 4 weeks to recover, and after 4 weeks, I felt myself again. At that time I had an Intrathecal Pain pump implanted that delivered 2mgs of Dilaudid in a 24hr period. I am weaning off of that at this time. My Dr reduces it by 20% each visit. I have no problems weaning off at this rate. I will be off all pain meds for good. In my experience, drugs are a deadend route that lead to misery and frustration.It feels good to be active and strong again. Just know when weaning off, you may have some discomfort z9should have very little at your doses), but the body goes back to homeostasis rather quickly.Even when I used the high doses, I healed within 4 weeks....4 horrible weeks, but felt like weight of the world had been lifted off my shoulders.
     
    Click#7 and Ellen like this.
  4. Click#7

    Click#7 Well known member

    Can I ask what kind of pain you were sufferings from.....and symptoms
     
  5. ricky26

    ricky26 New Member

    Etta

    Thank you for the reply. I have long thought my chronic pain symptoms were due to Iow back issues and structural problems but I've finally come around to fully believe in TMS as my problem. I also discovered that the mysterious pain symptoms I have been experiencing for years were not my back but actually chronic pelvic pain, something I have never heard of until recently, nore specifically the pelvic floor muscles dysfunction. It's been such a shame the medical community never would suggest my continuous suffering is actually from the deep muscles in my lower pelvis area. And I mean a literal suffering!
    Thus. I began the narcotic drug regimen prescribed by pain management doctors and quickly escalated to much higher levels for relief. Later two unsuccessful surgeries on my back created much greater pain and narcotic pain drugs escalated to levels that were completely out of control. Thus, a drug dependency problem began which I hate to refer as addiction.
    Yes, your mornings sound exactly like mine! Pain-free when I sleep yet the moment I' become conscious, and my thoughts begin, this terribly miserable pain begins to literally seep in. As Dr. Sarno states, this mysterious perineum pain is classic TMS. Yes, I agree, but ...
    Any recommendations of how to control thoughts and the consequentiali pain every morning ?
    as the word, addiction So, as I have committed to complete detox eventually, I am finding that the journey of healing from TMS is complicated greatly y all this.
    For example, the greatest pain I experience is when I must take the MEDS each morning and afternoon.
    So, is this combination of the mind altering drugs complicating my TMS healing? Is the haywire state of my brain The real problem of the pain or more a matter of pre-conditioned response as common TMS? My brain is dependent upon the drugs for sure! At the same time, TMS is MINDbody syndrome as well.
    Since so many people with TMS experience severe chronic pain and resort to narcotic pain medications, there must be many others who experience this. Again, it is very easy for those on the forum to simply Reply get off all of the drugs first, and then deal with the TMS pain symptoms. But, it doesn't work that way as the pain is most intense upon the detox journey, This is my major hurdle now,
    Does this make sense to anyone?
     
  6. JoeHealingTms

    JoeHealingTms Peer Supporter

    I was on meds years ago. I stopped them cold turkey because they would only numb me and zombify me, did not do anything for the pain. The only drug that helped was an antianxiolitic that could create dependency so I left it too. My first recommendation is that you are completely sure that you have TMS with a TMS expert and not on your own. If you already have a tms diagnosis, then start with the books, the program here on the website and journaling. You might need to get some psychotherapy by a tms expert to guide you in the best way. Assuming that what you have is really tms, then your pills have become your placebo, and your brain actually is using that against you. When you say-" my brain is dependent upon the drugs for sure"- like you did, you are only reinforcing and conditioning yourself to not be able to leave the drugs. All these drugs make your brain worst, not better. If you find that you wake up with no pain, and then the moment you start to think your pains comes, then that is a complete tms symptom and you have to recognize it. If you had a real pain coming from a structural problem, your pain wont go away when you sleep. The first thing you need to do is to follow the book to the letter and do the daily affirmations, specially when you wake up. Then do breathing relaxation exercises and close you eyes and let yourself feel the pain and at the same time "see" how the pain evolves and moves thru you. If you get to safely and from the relaxation of being in your bed see the pain this way and feel it, you would appreciate how it either get worse or better according to what you are thinking. Give up to the pain and allow yourself to feel it. Know that it is not a dangerous condition and that is mild oxygen depravation affecting your muscles. The pills are not taking your pain away, they are only numbing you. If the pills take your pain away is because simply they help you to not give a F about the feelings and situations that are causing the pain. You can do both at the same time I would say. If you have a plan with your doctor to properly cut down on your pills, you could use that time that your brain is numb, to relax and follow the program. Your pain will try to come back when you dose down,because more of your brain is interacting and trying to protect you from unwanted feelings and situations. At that moment you have to put more of your mind to work by doing the exercises and rely less on the drugs. You also commented "Is the haywire state of my brain the real problem of the pain"-- so you actually consciously recognize that your brain normally is full of thoughts that are out of order. You need to silence your brain and calm it down. Some people get cured by just getting the knowledge of what is happening with them and others require more deep work. It all depends how sensitive you are to what is in your subconscious and your personality. Personality sometimes being the worst offender, because we automatically react in the wrong way to small things that we should not give so much weight. Take your time to breath. Most people when they get anxious they tense the muscles in the upper back and forget to breath, which in turn just get you more anxious. If you want a placebo that you can control, get a warming pad and put it on your back and use it while you do the relaxation and observation exercises. it will give you comfort and you will relax better. Then use some mentholated pain cream right after the heat to create an opposite sensation when you finish relaxing. These are external placebos, but you can control them manually,unlike a pill that deals with your brain chemistry and is more dangerous. Hope this helps.
     
  7. ricky26

    ricky26 New Member

    That is a great reply and thank you so much for taking the time for it. Your'words are very wise, especially two major points you brought up. The first being that when I dose down on the opiate drug. more of the brain will.become active to sense and experience the thoughts and emotions causing the pain. Very good point and makes sense. Of course the main point you brought up is that the drugs actually ARE A placebo. I have read that eventually the opiate pain meds will eventually exacerbate the pain ironically!
    You helped answer my main line of questioning in regards to the Interaction of mind altering drugs as opiates pain meds are and the whole concept of TMS, which is all about the mind, thoughts, emotions! I'm surprised more people don't mention this on this forum as chronic pain often results in narcotic pain meds.
    I must say however, it is challenging for me to think of "feeling the pain "as you say, when it hits so suddenly and so dramatically. That part is a real challenge to me and have read of others mention this also. So, I must in this process somehow, someway. I must admit that is easier said than done. Need work on that one!
    So the question still bags, should I focus on detoxing completely from the opiate pain drugs first or concentrate totally on TMS therapy first, and then on to the challenge of getting off the pain meds completely.Those are both grueling yet separate journeys.
    Another excellent point you make is that personality is often is the main culprit with TMS. You pegged me clearly on that one.
    So, seems like much work to do on my end here. I do have an appointment in DC with TMS doctor in two weeks that is well-known and well respected. Step one on the journey.
    Again, thank you much for your words of encouragement and thankful that you have succeeded in both TMS as well as getting off the horrible dangerous pain meds.
     
  8. JoeHealingTms

    JoeHealingTms Peer Supporter

    You are welcome. We are all in the healing train. Most of the times the pain is exacerbated by the anxiety. That is why I suggest you to lay down, do some relaxation breathing exercises and then try to feel the pain from a controlled environment, and not when you are actually having a panic attack. I know how bad the pain can be. I was on the ER with the maximum dose of morphine available and asking for more and still in pain. Another thing that have helped me, is getting to feel again nice sensations. For example, I lay down in bed and just very slightly with the tips of my fingers touch some of my pain areas in an up to down motion, very slowly. This seems to activate my feeling receptors on my skin and is also a nice sensation, like a relaxing massage. If you have someone to do it for you is all the better. You will also find by softly pushing with your fingertips in your pain areas, that you find what is called trigger points. These are points where the brain have slowed down oxygenation and the muscle in that area creates this painful spots. By massaging them yourself to the point that they are tolerable, you will release many of them and feel better. This is the actual mechanism that the brain uses to create the tension in your muscles. That is why to many people, massage and heat works, because it restores oxygen flow. This exercises will also help you to not fear your pain. First because your brain and body will feel that you are taking care of yourself in a loving way, and second because you are helping the muscles unblock the problem areas. If you look around your body you will find a lot of these trigger points in your middle to lower back area and in your middle to upper back and shoulders area. You can almost follow the path with your fingers of the muscles directly involved in creating a path of trigger points. Again, treating them manually will help and while you get off meds it will be a more controllable placebo. As you get better, the aim is to eliminate all placebos and control the pain just with your mind by understanding how all these mechanism work, and by dealing in how you react to things that bother you. When your mind if full of monkeys dancing around( all kind of random thoughs) close your eyes, relax by deep breathing, and then look at these thoughts one by one. Let them flow, but just be aware of them. As you get aware of each one, pick them up, see what they are about and then dismiss them. Mentally say something like, oh well, or is ok and let that thought go. It will help you calm your mind in an orderly way. As I told you before, there is no need to separate the TMS treatment from the detox treatment. You can do both at the same time. If you would go to a psychiatrist for example, and he would diagnose you with a psychosomatic disorder, most possible he will put you on some pills and therapy and then cut down the pills as you make progress on the therapy, so I dont see why you would not be able to do the same here and just keep lowering your doses with the help of your doctor and at the same time doing your TMS exercises. The tms exercises are non invasive and they can NOT hurt you. Journaling, doing breathing and relaxation exercises and meditating on your personality traits and how to control your response to external situations will NOT interfere with your meds. Another thing is that once you control your fear, you should start doing some type of physical activity that reinforces your beliefs in the tms diagnostic. Let's say you have pain. You take your pills(placebo) and then you "feel " better. The pills are only controlling your anxiety, not doing anything in your muscles. So called "muscles relaxers" DO NOT relax your muscles, and any doctor that is honest with you will tell you so. They only perform an action in your brain by relaxing your mind, not your body. That is why most of them make you sleepy. If doctors where all honest, they would flatly tell you that you are getting very expensive numbing and sleeping pills. So , going back to your pain. You get your pills, and then when you "feel " that you have no pain, try to do some body movement consciously that you would not do when in pain. If you can do the movement there is your proof that there is nothing structurally broken. You just used a placebo to calm your brain, and under relaxation you just did what anxiety dont normally let you do. Sit down and think about that for a moment. Let that thought think in and see if you can try to do the same without taking your placebo pill,preferably after having done relaxation and breathing exercises. I am sure that tms doctor will get you more resources than what I can, but you can start with all the resources that you have here. If possible, get Sarnos book in mp3 format and listen to it while you go to sleep. If you fall asleep on it, they will continue unto your subconscious. Listen to them daily. They will start getting ingrained in your subconscious and it will be easier to accept the mechanism each time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  9. fbcoach

    fbcoach Peer Supporter

    Yes. I had broken my neck playing Football in 92'. I had a laminectomy from C-2 to the top of the Thoracic. I also had an implanted Pain Pump in my lower back with a catheter inserted up the spinal canal. I had major pain in my neck, traps, upper back, and shoulders, along with some lower back pain. I also get all the weird pains like dry mouth, electrical shocks all over my body, extreme tightness in legs, lower back, and neck, along with some insomnia and anxiety. What helps me get thru the tough times is to remember it is just a lack of blood and O2, and just do it anyway without thinking about my body. This works 99,9% of the time.t

    EDIT: Something I wanted to add. Intuitively, before I knew about TMS, I understood my pain came from anxiety. I would burn off the anxiety thru exhaustive exercise. Hope this helps!
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  10. Click#7

    Click#7 Well known member

    So I had a spinal fusion 7 months ago of L4-L5. Still have stiffness in the lower back. It's weird, left hip pain (nerve) never went away, but now tightness in my right shin & Foot, popping and cracking in the (L) knee and some weird feeling in the right knee. I am taking gabapentin and pain med 3 times a day. Plus tinnitus ? Some stuff like you mentioned above went away.....I embraced TMS, but my brain is doing a great job trying to convince me this is structural. Are you almost back to normal FB or still in pain with crazy symptoms ?
     
  11. fbcoach

    fbcoach Peer Supporter

    I just edited my above post.
    I have had others on here to write a success story, but until I am 100% pain-free, I will hold off.
    To answer your question, I do have times of pain, but I ignore it (learn that from Dr Sarno and "The Great Pain Deception" and burn it off with activity. I have a rod in my Thoracic spine, a Pain pump (,5mgs/daily and reducing) implanted in my lower back, and my MRI looks as bad as any I have seen. I hope this doesn't come across as bragging, but I have built up to a 375lb Trapbar Deadlift for 15 reps. I workout with heavy weights 3/week. My wife and I dance 4-5 nights/week for 3-4 hours at a time with little break. I have become extremely active the past 1 1/2 years. This , along with "The Great Pain Deception" and Dr Sarno have been a Godsend. Trust in the process N! This is key. Luckily I had an Exercise Science and Health degree that allowed me to understand that what Dr Sarno and Steve Ozanich were absolutely correct about the Biochemistry/Physiology of the body.
    Like you, I have times of doubt (why I am not 100% pain-free) and this is why we have pain. It is thru the autonomic NS creating the fight-flight-freeze response. Don't fear the pain....easier sai than done. But repetitive experience and confidence overcomes it. I am off to a heavy workout, the 4 hours of dancing tonight. I would be more than happy to share my experiences!
     
    Click#7 likes this.
  12. ricky26

    ricky26 New Member

    Again, very good words and much thanks for all valuable info. With all the information,you have apparently done much research and a lot of experience. Hopefully, this means that you are pain-free at this point, I certainly hope!
    I have done very little journaling, and this seems to be essential from reading other similar stories. Meditation is a challenge and takes requires discipline I have learned as my thoughts fly in 1 million directions especially now as a sudden single father of four after losing my wife. No condolences needed, I just need to work through this desperately to be in a place to get up in the mornings without suffering so much and be able to go to be at my work on time and efficiently. I read something that is valuable but my thoughts and then emotions fly away . Anxiety results, and the pain cycle continues. I don't know about you, but when I say pain, I mean deabilitaing pain. That is why this forum is so helpful because nobody has ever understood and that is also an incredibly lonely feeling. So then, even loneliness is an emotion that contributes to the pain I would imagine! Such a terrible vicious cycle that TMS is!
     
  13. ricky26

    ricky26 New Member

    Ok thanks to ALL who contribute. I am currently detoxing off my sick and danger pain Meds after 10 years. It's been over 3 weeks off and something I MUST do! I believe, rather I know that my pain is TMS now. Fully convinced intellectually, but not sure my heart is fully convinced if that makes sense. The detox process has been like hell, adding severe depression, doubts, fear, etc. all those things that inhibit TMS recovery. I have taken a much-needed leave absence from work to do all this. Crazy thing, with all the detox side effects , My TMS pain is the worst. It's really a scary time to be honest, as my brain and body are so weak as these poisons leave my body. So, and my weekend State, the spirit is willing but the flesh is this Weak. I want and need to be strong and courageous like Steve O in his book and countless others like you. So please help encourage me, as fear and creeps in when the nauseating pelvic pain in the butt keeps my butt in bed. So, it's late and cold outside but I'm going to take a long hard walk as fast as I can and come home and try to lift weights and work out. That is easier, much easier than lying in bed feeling the pain ooze in my perineum again. Sun placebos like heating pad, triggerpoints, my not be a bad idea at least for a while. Thanks as always to all. I'm in a desperate mode now and I need to get over that. I want to live again, work again, be with my beautiful four kids again especially since they lost their incredible mom three years ago. They need me now more than ever Depression can be a scary emotion and one I fight with daily, and nightly.
    At least I know now what my battle is against. Hoping the end of detox will help my body and spirit more.
    All of you are very inspirational to me and I thank you
     
  14. JoeHealingTms

    JoeHealingTms Peer Supporter

    Having suffered from what I call monkey brain(where your thoughts jump around like monkeys all the time) , I have to tell you that meditation is not hard at all. Maybe what you need is a guided meditation. You can buy meditations on audio, that you can listen on your mp3 player and I noticed that when you are following someone's voice, your own voices shut up. That is also useful if you listen to Sarno's book in audio, especially when lying in bed before sleeping. Or you can record your own meditation with your own voice, reading it from a transcrip and just playing it back when you go to sleep. Doing deep breathing while listening to recorded meditations might greatly help to relax you enough to keep meditating by yourself. Even relaxing music that you like can be useful in this way.
     
  15. fbcoach

    fbcoach Peer Supporter

    Hey Ricky,
    You will get thru the withdrawals. Back in 2010 I had been on 500mgs morphine/daily, along with the maximum dosage of Lyrica. After 1 1/2 years on the meds (feeling like I had the flu from 6:00am to noon every day, then feeling better as the day went on), I decided I couldn't live like this, and I quit cold turkey. I knew the withdrawal symptoms would be bad after such high dosages, but it really was pure hell for 4 weeks. I set a date for 4 weeks, because that was what I had read, then I would go back to lifting. During this time, I could only sleep from midnight til 2-3am. Food disgusted me. I was in severe pain, physically and emotionally. I began a walking program instinctively. It seemed to allow me to relax for about 30 minutes (otherwise, I really was in severe pain physically/emotionally). I knew I wasn't addicted to the morphine, because I had over 100 100mg pills left and never touched them. I knew the withdrawal wouldn't last but a few weeks, but had to continue reminding myself I would soon be back to where I was before taking these meds. During this time, I was pretty amazed at how far/long I could walk. By the 4 week mark I had set for myself, I had felt better and started my Training Program. Within a week, I felt better than I could had imagined. The point of all of this is you will get thru this, and you will be stronger for it. I had no idea the danger I was placing myself in due to quitting the morphine "cold turkey". You too will get thru this. As I mentioned before, I have been thru some very dark times (like many on here) and understand how hard this can be. You too will get thru this and build your confidence that Dr Sarno was right all along. It's just a matter of letting it sink into your autonomic NS/ subconscious. One day at a time....one step at a time.
     

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