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One hours of meditation in 12 minutes

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Richsimm22, Aug 24, 2015.

  1. Richsimm22

    Richsimm22 Well known member

    I posted about Holosync recently but after much research I bought this one and it's fantastic. it's really does work quickly. It uses Isochronic beats to change your brainwaves and put you into a meditative state quicker. Each session only takes 12 minutes.

    www.Zen12.com
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  2. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hello, sorry for sounding like a sceptic, but is there any proof behind the headline? Thank you
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  3. Richsimm22

    Richsimm22 Well known member

    I'm just as sceptical as you about the claim to be honest. There is scientific evidence to show the brainwaves slow down using the technology but as far as one hours worth in 12 minutes I can't see how that's measured. I believe it takes about an hour of meditation to get the brainwaves to a certain point. But with the sounds it produces that much quicker as the brain automatically responds to it.
    I don't believe we can replicate what zen monks do but. Since using it I've felt a massive difference which can only be explained by using it. As the saying goes 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'
     
    Forest likes this.
  4. IrishSceptic

    IrishSceptic Podcast Visionary

    Forest and mike2014 like this.
  5. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle


    Thanks, I have no belief in this myself and definitely wouldn't part with cash.
     
  6. IrishSceptic

    IrishSceptic Podcast Visionary

    the inital free audio is used to hyponitise and relax the listener in order to make them more susceptible to buying the big package. ingenious but incredibly unethical marketing.
     
  7. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Wow, you are right, there is nothing better about this meditation than those that are available for free or at a fraction of the price
     
    IrishSceptic likes this.
  8. Richsimm22

    Richsimm22 Well known member

    Bill Harris holosync is gastly expensive that's why I use the Zen12. The zen12 costs me about 35 pound. Rather than hundreds for holosync so I'm happy with that even if it didn't work. Luckily it's worked better than other free ones I've tried. I agree that's it made for profit. Everything is.
     
  9. IrishSceptic

    IrishSceptic Podcast Visionary

    I would argue most meditation programs depend on the individual getting to the state themselves but as long as you aren't getting totally ripped off work away!
    just trying to keep people vigilant as you can get sucked into these things fairly easily and intelligent people are actually more susceptible to getting conned in this way.
     
    Richsimm22 likes this.
  10. Richsimm22

    Richsimm22 Well known member

    Yeah I appreciate it. If I believed the claims they make I would have paid the hundreds like holosync but I think I've got more than what I paid for.
     
  11. Walt Oleksy

    Walt Oleksy Beloved Grand Eagle

    There are wonderful videos on meditation on Youtub and they're free.
    Just type in "meditation."

    Here's some info on meditation that includes tips on sleep and other TMS subjects.

    HELPFUL VIDEOS FOR SLEEP, MINDFULNESS, RELAXATION, LUCID DREAMING


    Many people posting to the TMSWiki forums say they are suffering back or other bodily pain

    but also are experiencing a lot of anxiety, worry, and fear. They also either have a hard time

    falling asleep or sleeping at all. Others say they just don’t know how to practice mindfulness

    (living in the present moment), and need relaxation techniques. They all relate very well to

    TMS healing techniques seen in the subforums here, including those interested in lucid dreaming.


    I surfed the Internet and found many helpful videos on these topics from various sources

    posting on YouTube. Some of those who were most helpful on these topics were the following:


    Deepak Chopra has a wealth of videos on YouTube covering most if not all of the above topics.

    Two I especially like are his Sleep Meditation video which is long at 1 hour, 6 minutes, but very

    worth watching. It includes breathing exercises and guided meditation. He suggests four things

    that help in falling asleep: 1) don’t watch any television or movie two hours before bedtime,

    especially action movies. 2) go to bed before 10 pm. 3) refrain from physical exercise or work

    late at night. 3) drink no beverage with caffeine after 5 pm.


    Chopra says deep, diaphramic breathing is an essential all the time but especially when in bed

    as an aid in falling asleep. Deep breathing sends oxygen to the brain and blood stream that,

    Chopra says, is the body’s way of calming a person with a natural biochemical equal to

    pharmaceutical tranquilizers such as diazepam (Valium).


    He says deep diaphramic breathing is done best by inhaling slowly through the nose to the

    count of four (count 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000), hold the breath a second or two, then exhale

    slowly through the mouth to the count of four. Repeat this at least 10 times. (Hypnosis for sleep

    hypnotists say do this while counting backwards from 100 to 1. It puts a person in the present

    moment, focusing on the breathing and counting.) I’ve found this to be very helpful.


    Other Chopra videos on YouTube that are very helpful on meditation and other topics are:

    Secret of Healing – Meditations for Transformation (46 minutes). And this one, on ageing

    gracefully and healthfully: How to Combat the Ageing Process (26 minutes). It is an excellent

    video on MindBody living and healing techniques.


    I also found YouTube videos that are very helpful to be the various posts of malesoothe. A young man

    named Andrew Kennedy who is a yoga instructor and sleep hypnotist who guides the viewer through

    his techniques for falling asleep at his posting, Sleep Hypnosis and Relaxation (12 minutes).

    He whispers his techniques and I found them to be very calming. They also include deep breathing and

    counting. His other videos are on mindfulness techniques, relaxation head and hand massages, and

    lucid dreaming in which he says dreams can be programmed. For more of his sites, type in

    malesoothe at YouTube.


    Another YouTube video I found to be very helpful in falling asleep is at Fall Asleep Right Now in which

    Meg Tocantins guides viewers through a 12 minute session that also is relaxing and she talks in almost

    a whisper.


    There are dozens and dozens of other MindBody videos that are helpful in TMS healing and it’s worth

    the time to browse through them to find the ones you like bes and that work best for you.

    You can learn a lot about the topics above if you go to You Tube sites for Eckhart Tolle, Thich Nhat Hanh,

    Claire Weekes, Byron Katie. And, of course, Dr. John Sarno and Steve Ozanich.
     
  12. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    Its sounds like to be to be true.....and why would you want to rush meditation anyway?
     
    Richsimm22 likes this.
  13. balto

    balto Beloved Grand Eagle

    Like Boston said, I think meditation is not to be rush. One of the main goal of meditation is to eliminate the "urge" to get it done, the urge to get it over with. We want our mind to live in the present. Not the past, not the future, the present. One myth about meditation is: people think it will help stop the thought and quiet the mind. Those are just the result of meditation we sometime able to achieve. But they are not the goal. When meditate we want to be an observer. It is the nature of our mind to produce thoughts endlessly, no matter how long we have practice meditation or how experience we are, we can never stop our mind from producing thoughts. Even the Buddha can't stop it. What we can do is observe our thoughts and that's it. We don't react to it. We mindful of our thoughts but we don't let our body produce the corresponding emotions to those thought. Anger thought don't produce anger feeling. Funny thought don't make we laugh. We just observe and gently guide our mind to concentrate on a neutral "thing" (mantra, a color, a figure... )
    We want mindfulness. With enough practice and experience, we can pretty much stop ourselves from being affect by thoughts. Fear, anger, happy, love, hate, guilt,..... They are just thoughts. Meditation help us eliminate the effects these thoughts have on our mind and body.
    We are in control of our mind.
    3 scenarios: we are watching the news on TV and saw it mention a funeral. Someone we hated have died. Some terrible terrorist just die. we are happy to hear it. The world become a little safer without that person. Then another funeral of someone we really admire and love. Let say it was princess Diana or Mother Teresa. We would feel sad and may cry. The world have lost a very valuable and respected person. Then another funeral, someone we don't know, don't care about have just died. We feel nothing.
    The 3 scenarios of a very similar event produce 3 different emotion and feeling in us. Meditation will help us control our feeling and emotion in these cases. It keep us neutral and calm in all events. We take control of our thoughts and feeling. That is what we want with meditation. The fear and the panic that come with tms/anxiety symptoms will become less and less intense or eliminate altogether.

    to me those for profit programs like Zen12 are similar to those relaxation audios that were on sale all over the net. It is like some kind of white noise machine. It produce the sound that "distract" our mind momentarily from our usual everyday thoughts. It may help us relax and rest a little. But once the noise stop our mind and body go right back to the way it was before.
    But hey, it is a free country. You can sale anything you want. I even saw someone try to sale a piece of toast bread with burn mark in the shape of Christ on TV one time. There are buyer for everything. :)
     
  14. Richsimm22

    Richsimm22 Well known member

    The brain entrainment audios aren't designed to distract our minds it just meant to change the brainwaves quicker to enhance the overall meditation. It does nothing to change what thoughts come in. Totally agree meditation shouldn't be rushed. The holosync for example tho expects one hour meditation every single day for ten whole years. Who has that amount of time. Zen12 is mostly 12 minutes and sometimes I play Dr shubiners meditation (3 situations one) at the same time using an app I have.
     
  15. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    Its not how long you do it its how often it is done.
     
    Richsimm22 likes this.
  16. Richsimm22

    Richsimm22 Well known member

    Agree there Boston. Consistency is key
     
    Boston Redsox likes this.
  17. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    That's awesome to hear, Richsimm. My girlfriend uses a CD like that, recommended by her therapist.

    I checked out the website and read about it a bit, on Wikipedia, etc. but never got to the point where I was sure I knew whether there was scientific evidence to back up the claims in the marketing materials. I found the following list of articles, but most of them either came from sources I was skeptical of or didn't include the full text of the article in question:
    http://www.transparentcorp.com/research/
    Plus, the entire bibliography was supplied by a company that makes money selling related products. But at least they are putting up a bibliography - that's a start.

    Of course, things can still work quite well even before they have been studied well enough to prove that they work. For example, people were meditating for a long time before we started scientifically studying meditation and it worked quite well then even without the research.

    Thanks for sharing that, @IrishSceptic. It definitely makes me lose respect for Bill Harris' as a man and for his business practices as well. It didn't definitively answer the question of whether it works, but it certainly makes you go into it with your skepticism handy (I'd expect nothing less, given your username ;) ).

    If anyone wants to listen to some free holosync style sounds while they meditate, you've read this far, why not give it a try. I really like this site - it's run by someone who has a doctorate and seems to have real expertise in sound engineering:
    http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/isochronicBrainwaveGenerator.php
    or perhaps you think this one sounds better:
    http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/pureBinauralBrainwaveGenerator.php (this one requires headphones because it's binaural)

    Try laying down, while listening to that and doing some deep breathing? Does it work better than just the deep breathing alone? If it does, could that be because it is synchronizing your brainwaves?

    I thought it was nice and could actually believe that the pulsating sounds would have an effect on my brainwaves. I'd like to see more scientific evidence, but apparently some scientists have been studying it, as indicated by the bibliography I linked to, above.
     
  18. Richsimm22

    Richsimm22 Well known member

    Great comment Forest. Thanks
     
  19. mouser

    mouser Peer Supporter

    My favorite YouTube Meditation people are "TheHonestGuys". Very calming voice, lots of videos.

    I personally do better with guided videos because of the monkey mind. Their pain and mindfulness vids are very good.
     
    Josh Howard likes this.
  20. isoch

    isoch Newcomer

    I've been working with binaural tones and isochronic tones since 2001, it started as an experiment to address my (severe) ADHD, I created several CDs with binaural tones that tried to keep me in the 14-18Hz Zone as long as possible. Those first CDs helped me a lot and some of my friends (ADD, ADHD) tried it with very good results for them.
    Sometime around 2009-2010 I found this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK75019/ (A comprehensive review of the psychological effects of brainwave entrainment - Database of Abstracts of Reviews of Effects (DARE): Quality-assessed Reviews - NCBI Bookshelf)
    And their conclusion is:
    CONCLUSIONS:
    Findings to date suggest that BWE is an effective therapeutic tool. People suffering from cognitive functioning deficits, stress, pain, headache/migraines, PMS, and behavioral problems benefited from BWE. However, more controlled trials are needed to test additional protocols with outcomes.

    From there, I started to work on isochronic tones and developed my own software for that purpose, I eventually stopped working on the mac version and translated the work to iOS (as it was easier for me to have my tones on my pocket). I actually own an app called isochronic tones generator:
    http://isochronic.co (Isochronic.co - Brain entrainment as easy as it gets.)

    You can see the reviews on the appstore so you can see how this technique is helping people.
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/isochronic/id604028966 (‎Isochronic)

    Regards, I hope it helps.
     

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