Old injuries

[Stephanie71]

Ok, so if you experience an actual physical injury (I pulled my hamstring, heard it pop, when I was eighteen) and have had chronic pain in my left leg ever since (10+ years) with many strange symptoms occurring from the buttock to the toes, including nerve and tendon pain, burning tightness, knee pain, etc. At the time of the injury, I saw no doctors, did no resting or physical therapy and just ignored it. I didn't know any better. I was a huge partier at the time (addiction) and cannot even remember how badly it hurt or how it felt in the following weeks. Perhaps it wasn't that bad, but the sound of when I popped it forever haunts me, and Google tells me this sort of injury can in fact cause chronic symptoms if left untreated. I began to notice pain and symptoms a couple months later and a feeling of something being very "wrong" with the injured leg - a very structural feeling. Could this chronic pain be due to structural damage and tissue damage, or could this in fact be TMS? Is the fact that I did not properly care for acute injury a reason that there would still be trouble to this day? I read a lot on here that that pain starts where there is no injury and that that is very TMSy (I have had that experience with neck pain and many other equivalents) but this old injury is really throwing me for a loop and creating much doubt. I will be seeing my TMS doctor soon to potentially get imaging done on the area, but in the meantime, I am quite struggling and would love some feedback and advice. Thank you.

 

[Ap13evans]

Hello Stephanie!

I am sorry to hear about your chronic hamstring pain. When I was 20 (6 years ago) I heard a similar pop in my hamstring and since then it has become a chronic condition. Eventually, perhaps 3-4 years later, I had MRIs and ultrasounds done that showed no significant abnormalities with the hamstring.

Anyways, yeah I had a similar idea that it could be TMS after so many years without a proper diagnosis.

I am exploring this possibility right now. If I learn of anything I will let you know.

Take care!

Alex

 

[Lunarlass66]

Ok, so if you experience an actual physical injury (I pulled my hamstring, heard it pop, when I was eighteen) and have had chronic pain in my left leg ever since (10+ years) with many strange symptoms occurring from the buttock to the toes, including nerve and tendon pain, burning tightness, knee pain, etc. At the time of the injury, I saw no doctors, did no resting or physical therapy and just ignored it. I didn't know any better. I was a huge partier at the time (addiction) and cannot even remember how badly it hurt or how it felt in the following weeks. Perhaps it wasn't that bad, but the sound of when I popped it forever haunts me, and Google tells me this sort of injury can in fact cause chronic symptoms if left untreated. I began to notice pain and symptoms a couple months later and a feeling of something being very "wrong" with the injured leg - a very structural feeling. Could this chronic pain be due to structural damage and tissue damage, or could this in fact be TMS? Is the fact that I did not properly care for acute injury a reason that there would still be trouble to this day? I read a lot on here that that pain starts where there is no injury and that that is very TMSy (I have had that experience with neck pain and many other equivalents) but this old injury is really throwing me for a loop and creating much doubt. I will be seeing my TMS doctor soon to potentially get imaging done on the area, but in the meantime, I am quite struggling and would love some feedback and advice. Thank you.

Hi Stephanie... Wow, I've had EXACTLY the same hamstring injury in 2014..My right leg popped in the back of my thigh and it never went back to normal ever since.
The only difference is that I DID see a dr and a specialist. I had an MRI after months of pain. I limped around, ultimately had to leave my job because it was so physical and I couldn't keep it. The specialist (ortho) said it was hip bursitis and I agreed to a cortisone injection... Which only gave me HUGE side effects and anxiety and was wrong. I DEMANDED an MRI and it showed "mild tendinopathy" of the hamstring tendons and was sent to PT... 9 months worth, but sadly and I think due to the doctor's negligence, it never went back to normal. I truly believe it was due to not treating it in a timely fashion and it healed" wrong"... Perhaps scarring or shortening of the tendon, but I've lost rage of motion and have constant low to mid level pain that makes life miserable. It also led to foot problems and knee pain due to gait abnormality... I still hold out hope that it can get better, and I think you aren't as old as I am... Which makes healing a real possibility for you.
Just wanted to say I know exactly how you feel... And I suggest looking up Mindbody PT in the forums.... She is A-mazing and really knows alot about these things. She is unique because she brings to the table BOTH the wisdom of traditional medicine WITH the mindbody/TMS approach... She had told me (about my hamstring issue) that hamstring strains don't last forever, and that keeps me holding on to hope that it may still BE TMS because I'm so traumatized and anxious about the initial injury and maybe the tissue is in fact healed) ... But I think thr docs screwed me up.

 

[MindBodyPT]

Ok, so if you experience an actual physical injury (I pulled my hamstring, heard it pop, when I was eighteen) and have had chronic pain in my left leg ever since (10+ years) with many strange symptoms occurring from the buttock to the toes, including nerve and tendon pain, burning tightness, knee pain, etc. At the time of the injury, I saw no doctors, did no resting or physical therapy and just ignored it. I didn't know any better. I was a huge partier at the time (addiction) and cannot even remember how badly it hurt or how it felt in the following weeks. Perhaps it wasn't that bad, but the sound of when I popped it forever haunts me, and Google tells me this sort of injury can in fact cause chronic symptoms if left untreated. I began to notice pain and symptoms a couple months later and a feeling of something being very "wrong" with the injured leg - a very structural feeling. Could this chronic pain be due to structural damage and tissue damage, or could this in fact be TMS? Is the fact that I did not properly care for acute injury a reason that there would still be trouble to this day? I read a lot on here that that pain starts where there is no injury and that that is very TMSy (I have had that experience with neck pain and many other equivalents) but this old injury is really throwing me for a loop and creating much doubt. I will be seeing my TMS doctor soon to potentially get imaging done on the area, but in the meantime, I am quite struggling and would love some feedback and advice. Thank you.

Hi Stephanie!

Aww thanks for the callout @Lunarlass66!

So here is the thing about injuries like tearing a hamstring- they will heal regardless of whether you get PT or not (yes the PT on here is saying this)! Tissue heals with time, and if it wasn't a full tear it wouldn't have needed surgery anyhow. Rest, ice and time would have taken care of it.

Did you do anything that would have hurt your leg recently? If not, the symptoms are very likely to be TMS. A 10 year old injury would not cause current symptoms. Get imaging from your TMS doctor for confirmation but you can rest easy that nothing is likely to be severely wrong. Remember that old injuries create neural pathways in the brain that stick around, so getting pain at the site of an old injury is extremely common. This happens to me sometimes- I always get the same TMS neck pain at the same site that I pulled a neck muscle many years ago (I also didn't see a doctor or get PT for it at the time and it healed up well). I even used to get full on spasms in that area before knowing about TMS!

Hope it helps, let me know if you have a question.

 

[Lunarlass66]

Hi Stephanie!

Aww thanks for the callout @Lunarlass66!

So here is the thing about injuries like tearing a hamstring- they will heal regardless of whether you get PT or not (yes the PT on here is saying this)! Tissue heals with time, and if it wasn't a full tear it wouldn't have needed surgery anyhow. Rest, ice and time would have taken care of it.

Did you do anything that would have hurt your leg recently? If not, the symptoms are very likely to be TMS. A 10 year old injury would not cause current symptoms. Get imaging from your TMS doctor for confirmation but you can rest easy that nothing is likely to be severely wrong. Remember that old injuries create neural pathways in the brain that stick around, so getting pain at the site of an old injury is extremely common. This happens to me sometimes- I always get the same TMS neck pain at the same site that I pulled a neck muscle many years ago (I also didn't see a doctor or get PT for it at the time and it healed up well). I even used to get full on spasms in that area before knowing about TMS!

Hope it helps, let me know if you have a question.

Hi MindBodyPT..
I remember you telling me the same thing about hamstring strains. The nurseline on my insurance also described it similarly in that even a third grade strain, partially torn will heal with time and some early RICE treatment ... I was hugely comforted by this info and yet after three LONG years, I still have pain, the tendon/hamstring feels tight, short and sore and my range of motion is reduced when compared to the other leg.
I spent nine months limping at work and had an active job, so in retrospect now have myself convinced I did permanent damage because I wasn't in a splint or cast or whatever treatment it needed and my leg is "ruined". Even my pt was surprised when after several months of massage, special exercises, tens unit, ice, heat etc... It wouldn't improve...
My apologies for hijacking someone else's thread.. But maybe someone has some insight to shed on this that can help both Stephanie and I with the chronic hamstring issue... I worry it's coming from my back(sciatica) , adhesions in the tendon, scar tissue... Who knows? I don't know if Stephanie had an MRI, but I did... Mine showed "mild tendinopathy" of the common hamstring tendons.. And that came 5 months after onset of pain.. It's a mystery I HATE living with...(and of course if it isn't likely a physical issue, then I'm totally on board with the neural pathway issue presenting itself at an old injury site..)

 

[Lily Rose]

and I think you aren't as old as I am... Which makes healing a real possibility for you.

Beautiful Lunar ..... this statement made my eyes prickle with heat and sorrow. Your age matters not. But your thoughts ... they are everything. Healing is not just a 'real possibility' for everyone here .... it is inevitable. Every single person on this forum is finding their path at whatever speed they can handle .... but they ARE finding it, and healing will follow. For everyone. But you must believe. (This flashed me to clapping your hands if you believe in faeries! And Tinkerbell lives because we believe!)

You are so much stronger than you give yourself credit for.
Be patient, and breathe .... (and even clap your hands ).

I believe in Faeries and Angels and Rainbow-magic, and YOU.

.... always with Love and Gratitude ^_^

(just a note, Stephanie's Post is from 2016, but it is a good topic anyway!)

 

[Lunarlass66]

Beautiful Lunar ..... this statement made my eyes prickle with heat and sorrow. Your age matters not. But your thoughts ... they are everything. Healing is not just a 'real possibility' for everyone here .... it is inevitable. Every single person on this forum is finding their path at whatever speed they can handle .... but they ARE finding it, and healing will follow. For everyone. But you must believe. (This flashed me to clapping your hands if you believe in faeries! And Tinkerbell lives because we believe!)

You are so much stronger than you give yourself credit for.
Be patient, and breathe .... (and even clap your hands ).

I believe in Faeries and Angels and Rainbow-magic, and YOU.

.... always with Love and Gratitude ^_^

(just a note, Stephanie's Post is from 2016, but it is a good topic anyway!)

Thank you Lilyrose.. You're kindness is very much appreciated. I do wonder though why Stephanie's post is from an older thread and just "reappeared" in the current forum? I'm not very tech savvy so it was probably my mistake.... Other members also replied. I'm kind of glad though that it's a "current" topic again as I have the same kind of injury, (along with several other chronic pain problems) and anyone who has some experience with it may have some fresh insights.
If Stephanie's issue is from 2016, I wonder how she is doing now? Hopefully fully recovered and no longer imprisoned by pain..

 

[MindBodyPT]

Oh wow didn't even see the date from last year! Thanks for pointing that out, hopefully she is doing well.

 

[Lunarlass66]

Oh wow didn't even see the date from last year! Thanks for pointing that out, hopefully she is doing well.

It's strange because it was reposted a couple of days ago and other forum members also replied.... Im kind of glad it was because I'd like to see if anyone else has any info or experience with this type of issue...

 

[Bodhigirl]

Interesting to see the POP discussion. Again.
I swear that Sarno mentioned it in Healing Back Pain as a TMS symptom and when we hear the POP and get the initial pain that we panic and drop to the floor or project out that we have injured ourselves rather than that we are having TMS pain.
I have heard so many POPS that wound me up in doctors offices. Now, I hear a POP and say "And what feeling are you avoiding today?" and the answer is almost always fear or anger. Sometimes impatience is good for some popping, too.

Old injuries are the go-to place for the brain to starve of oxygen. There's memory of pain there. Just tell the brain that initial injuries heal and there is NO REASON for the pain, other than TMS.

and then, what I do, is just walk it off. Be a grownup coach to my scared inner kid and walk it off, walk it off and if that doesn't work, have a good cry and then walk it off.

Yesterday I was riding out on trail, alone, like I do every single week. Suddenly I felt fear and actually WISHED for a migraine so i could get out of my responsibilities. That's consciousness, pure and simple. When we are honest with ourselves, we usually want to get out of life or some adult commitment that we are facing and pain is just such a sweet and socially acceptable place to hide.

Wishing you all a painless day, full of choices to face a rainbow of feelings.

bg

 

[Baseball65]

Interesting to see the POP discussion. Again.
I swear that Sarno mentioned it in Healing Back Pain as a TMS symptom and when we hear the POP and get the initial pain that we panic and drop to the floor or project out that we have injured ourselves rather than that we are having TMS pain.
I have heard so many POPS that wound me up in doctors offices. Now, I hear a POP and say "And what feeling are you avoiding today?" and the answer is almost always fear or anger. Sometimes impatience is good for some popping, too.

Old injuries are the go-to place for the brain to starve of oxygen. There's memory of pain there. Just tell the brain that initial injuries heal and there is NO REASON for the pain, other than TMS.

and then, what I do, is just walk it off. Be a grownup coach to my scared inner kid and walk it off, walk it off and if that doesn't work, have a good cry and then walk it off.

Yesterday I was riding out on trail, alone, like I do every single week. Suddenly I felt fear and actually WISHED for a migraine so i could get out of my responsibilities. That's consciousness, pure and simple. When we are honest with ourselves, we usually want to get out of life or some adult commitment that we are facing and pain is just such a sweet and socially acceptable place to hide.

Wishing you all a painless day, full of choices to face a rainbow of feelings.

bg

Old post...but the answer is still the same. Bodhigirl was correct. Sarno mentions it in HBP. I have mentioned this before, but my body STILL makes all sorts of pops and crunchy noises when I work out... particularly in my shoulders if I am doing push-ups the day after doing a lot of military presses....sound like peanuts crunching. My Hip makes a CLICK/POP noise sometimes during sit-ups... and embarrassingly, my jaw sometimes does it when I chew on the left side (which I don't do in public). All totally normal. No pain or anything 'wrong'. Sooooo very grateful that I learned this so I am not careful or worried.

and that whole 'old injury' stuff is BS. The body heals. It's the MIND that holds onto that crap and expects problems...so they come. I presume I am indestructible....at least Physically.

 

[lexylucy]

Hi stephanie! It sounds like there was some trauma around the actual injury and sound.

Have you ever done any EMDR?

Love,
Lexy Lucy

 

[Stephanie71]

Hi stephanie! It sounds like there was some trauma around the actual injury and sound.

Have you ever done any EMDR?

Love,
Lexy Lucy

Hi! There was definitely trauma around all of it. Very difficult emotional time in my life. My entire childhood and adolescence felt "traumatic," to be honest. Divorce, drug and alcohol addiction, family chaos, tough, controlling angry father, eating disorders, etc. On it goes. Lots of family system muck. I know my pain is TMS, I just fet frustrated because I have had it for so long, and for the first 7 years of having it I had no idea about TMS and became so conditioned around all the pain and symptoms. I compensated for it in so many ways and grew to believe there was something seriously screwed up in my body. This has been the hardest thing to let go of, I think...

To update on this post, I did have a hamstring MRI which came back completely normal. Go figure. I recently was reading Back in Control, and Dr. Hanscom does say that even actual soft tissue problems (that may or may not be TMS) cannot and should not be treated with surgery. I think I have some old idea that some miracle surgery could finally "fix me," though I literally have no idea where I would even be operated on! My whole left leg from low back to toes has symptoms.

I also think I cling to an absolute idea that my body is forever altered and that even if my symptoms lessen (which they sometimes do) they will never be gone completely. My scariest symptom are the chronic nerve tingling/numbness I have at my ankle area, which make it so hard for me to truly believe there is nothing structurally damaged.

I have not done any EDMR... something you recommend?

My experience with TMS recovery has always been supremely up and down. I feel guilty about that. Feel like I am doing it wrong. But that is a feeling I have carried with me about myself in general since I was very young.

My brain is STUBBORN. But I am not giving up.