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Not all chronic pain is due to learned neural pathways in the brain.

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by dIK8Lsf3Bl3y4DTtSWEZ, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. dIK8Lsf3Bl3y4DTtSWEZ

    dIK8Lsf3Bl3y4DTtSWEZ Peer Supporter

    What you are really saying is that you cannot stand criticism. So you tried to attack me to not have to accept that gratitude did nothing for your alleged recovery. To not look at what really helped you. You tried to do it in a way that would hurt me more in your mind. But it didn't, because I knew better. All you did was repeat a well-known insult in the mindbody community along the template of "well, if you are not nice to me, you must be a bad human and therefore not get what you want. Behave the way I want you to and you will be pain free."

    I pointed this out to clarify how disgusting robodelfy really is.

    Now I can return to a calmer discussion, unless this is going to be debated for no reason other than for people to feel better about themselves at others expense.
  2. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Does anybody else wonder if this person is trolling?
    sadoromi and Eugene like this.
  3. sadoromi

    sadoromi New Member

    He has a point though, but that doesnt justify how he's ignored all the suggestions, including yours, and his overall behavior. We have private messages for conversations like that, in order to keep the atmosphere here positive.
    Maybe we should just leave all this for him to figure out on his own instead of disrupting the peaceful and helpful aura around this place.
  4. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member


    You agree with him that I'm disgusting! :) I was just pointing out the very obvious, that his attitude is not going to get him very far. I can stand criticism, I just feel it should be warranted, which in this case is not.

    I am certain it's trolling anyway, and I'm falling for it by even replying!!
  5. dIK8Lsf3Bl3y4DTtSWEZ

    dIK8Lsf3Bl3y4DTtSWEZ Peer Supporter

    Yes, the question "does this assumption(undetectable by medicine) help me or make me feel better" can only be answered with a no.
    The quandary for me is this: "Whenever pain comes, I remind myself that even my 3 tesla mri did not show anything negative". Then there is herpes. It was detected when it all started. Yet there are many people who have it, not have outbreaks and not have pain.

    Is Herpes TMS? Serious question.
  6. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    I would tend towards saying no although many many people have experienced genital pain/rashes/inflammation that clearly were TMS. You may have a TMS overlay on top of herpes. That is quite common.
  7. sadoromi

    sadoromi New Member

    I think I've told you everything I know at this point. Anything else from me would be too much of just guessing, but its well established that:

    1. the immune system is controlled by mood at some degree, probably at a very high one
    2. herpes tends to flare up when the immune system is compromised

    Which means it is TMS. I mean, probably everything has a mind-body component to it, but according to my research (Im a Google certified doctor) all the immune stuff, which a herpes flare up is, almost always indicates you're stressed, tired or anxious.
    (The act of you catching it though is obviously not TMS, just saying)

    No, haha, I don't! I agree with some stuff hes saying, but its just human. Its not disgusting to me personally.
    And you're probably right about the attide, but it has its percs two. Who knows.
  8. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Thank you everyone who has been working to keep things constructive and positive in this thread. Thank you, also, for the people who clicked the report link. The more people who click it, the clearer I understand how people are being impacted by posts.

    On Sunday, to @sadoromi, @dIK8Lsf3Bl3y4DTtSWEZ wrote,
    Earlier today, to @robodelfy, he wrote,
    Most people pick up pretty quickly that we are a kind and supportive community here. Even when we disagree, we keep it constructive. People just seem to follow the forum rules without me having to do much ( http://go.tmswiki.org/rules (Forum FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions)) ).

    Like others, I am concerned that dIK8L may be trolling. Trolling just means that someone is disrupting a community, arguing with people, or offending people just for the fun of it.

    Obviously, trollish behavior is toxic in a community like ours. Sadoromi pointed out one of the ways it can cause problems:
    Thanks, sadoromi (and others), for drawing attention to the peaceful and helpful nature of this community. Especially in an anonymous community, I think that this is very valuable and something that is worth working hard to protect.

    I do not know for sure whether dIK8L is an actual troll, but the quotes above (and other things) show that he is acting like one. If he is to participate in our community, he has to find a way to participate constructively.

    Unfortunately, just ignoring trolls and trollish behavior generally isn't enough. No one appreciates rudeness and the good people on this forum don't deserve to have to tolerate it.

    For the above reasons, I'm going to give @dIK8Lsf3Bl3y4DTtSWEZ a 7 day break from the forum, to reconsider how he can engage with us in a constructive manner. That means engaging in a constructive dialogue where you put effort into helping people understand where you are coming from and are likewise interested in learning from others. This is not a place to come just to try to "score points."

    If you'd like to reach me in the interim, dIK8L, you are welcome to contact me through the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of this page. I'd also welcome feedback from any other forum members. You can either use the contact form or just send me a personal message via the forum.

    Finally, thank you, sadoromi, for linking to the forum rules, also. I've created a short link to make it easier to do in the future. http://go.tmswiki.org/rules (Forum FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions)) . You can find the short link at the bottom of the rules themselves (which are always available from the "Help" link at the top of every page), to make it easier to link to them in the future.
    Katica, karinabrown, Ellen and 6 others like this.
  9. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    Thank YOU for protecting our safe environment. While I haven't posted on this thread, I've been reading it with growing unease. You are an amazing and kind and compassionate Administrator.

    ... with Love and Gratitude ^_^
    Katica, Forest, sadoromi and 2 others like this.
  10. Lunarlass66

    Lunarlass66 Well known member

    You said exactly what I was thinking and feeling Lily Rose..though you have more courage than I and spoke up.. Thank you. For some of us, this forum is our only "safe place" and it's absolutely critical for recovery...
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
    Forest and Lily Rose like this.
  11. Chizzy

    Chizzy Peer Supporter

    "The Body Keeps The Score". Best book that will explain how the mind affects the body. No other book comes close. The Buddhists have been practicing mind-body for thousands of years.

    Find your own way..... thats what I am doing with the advice, personal mistakes, and mistakes of others.
    plum likes this.
  12. pspa

    pspa Well known member

    Agree it was a good book. But as i have posted i then went to see dr van der kolk as a prospective patient and was beyond disappointed.
  13. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    I haven't found the thread uneasy, it's always interesting trying to work out if someone is trolling!

    Insults like that are too extreme to have any effect, they just sound ridiculous : disgusting person, worst person on earth etc!

    Surely you can just tell the guy if he insults someone for no reason again or antagonises anyone trying to help he will be banned. It gives him a chance to be civil and if he is trolling he will probably take up the offer!

    P.s I've starting reading ' the body keeps the score'. It's very interesting, I'm about to get stuck back in now! I've had EMDR myself, which he is an advocate of and did find it helpful. Thanks for the heads up
  14. Chizzy

    Chizzy Peer Supporter

    I d
    I think most doctors and therapists that treat mind body are disappointing during on-site visits. My goal is to take the book/blog content, and incorporate into my life and trust myself. If you have the content, and you believe that it's a mind-body syndrome, what's the point of seeing a doctor? My experience with these doctors and therapists has not been good. Schubiner is the only one I trust. Schecter is by far the worst (IMO of course). As long as I am searching for answers from other people, not trusting myself, I leave the door open for self doubt which = pain, pain, pain. Mindfullness and meditation are my tools. Think budda!
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
    plum and Lunarlass66 like this.
  15. NicoleB34

    NicoleB34 Well known member

    pretty much all my pain is neuralgia. I have pudendal neuralgia (poorly understood, and almost never curable). I also have/had Interstitial cystitis, which is severly aggravated nerves in the urinary tract and bladder. I also have moments where a patch of my skin will burn for no apparent reason. I spent more than a year trying to treat my pudendal pain as "nerve damage", but rather, i have have many clues that a big part of it is pelvic floor dysfunction (spasm onto the nerve) and central sensitization (where our brains send exaggerated pain signals to a part of the body. Some TMS experts consider CS and TMS to be a similar phenomenon, and fixed the same way essentially). I literally had nerve pain jump from one part of my body to the other, and that's what really confused me back in the day, but now it makes some sense.

    This of course is different than people who have nerve damage due to diabetes for instance.
  16. NicoleB34

    NicoleB34 Well known member

    HI there. i have the same pain. i'm not out of the woods yet, my symptoms have been very varied since treating this as TMS. Here are some of the clues that i had TMS.
    first, i had interstitial cystitis (painful bladder syndrome). my case was atypical though, i could eat whatever i wanted, maybe because i learned never to fear certain foods in the first place, and my pain would come in dreadful flares, but then randomly just STOP for years. This sort of rules out actual nerve damage.
    Then i had a nerve block to a major pelvic nerve, which was a bad idea, because suddenly, my pudendal nerve got severely irritated, and i ended up with a condition called pudendal neuralgia. My mind was so distraught over this new debilitating condition, that the horrid bladder flare which had been raging a year and only getting worse, suddenly jumped ship to the pudendal area. This made no sense to me. I also noticed when i have a heavy cry, my pain (both bladder and later, pudendal) would drastically reduce temporarily.

    I also didnt have sitting or rectal pain at first, which is very common for PN. I only had crotch pain. When i saw a PN doctor, he told me to stop all activities like bike riding (my passion) and sex, anythimg i thought was a trigger. I left the office depressed, and the next day, boom, i had rectal and sitting pain.

    One day i decided i was worse than ever, and had major depression, and i went out and bought a special saddle for my bike, and started integrating riding back into my life. Sometimes i was ok....other times i'd flare. I had to find that fine line. However, i always had a cycle of fear around riding my bike. I'd be nervous beforehand, and VERY scared afterwards that i might have damaged something.

    When i learned about TMS, i decided to change my attitude around riding. Instead of approaching it with fear of damage, i tried to approach it as fun and getting my life back. Suddenly the 4-5 miles i could only muster for a year, grew to 10 miles. Then more. Now these days, i can ride up to 20 miles, and one time close to 30! I also didnt get horrid flares after. Maybe a slight uptick in pain for a few days, but nothing like before when i was scared. Of course, i still have these fear thoughts deep in the background of my mind, and i think that's why i'm having trouble riding more than once a week. i'm working on that. I've ridden twice recently, and was ok. All it was, was a change in my attitude.

    however, my regular life still has pain. I have pain when i work, and when i'm lounging around at home. This is the part i'm still trying to work on. i notice it gets worse when i lay down and play on my phone. Deep down i have depression and negative feelings about being a loser and a shut-in, and i think that triggers it.

    i do have other stories, non-pelvic pain and illness that i now suspect was TMS as well.
  17. NicoleB34

    NicoleB34 Well known member

    somebody mentioned herpes. Very interestingly, i was dating a guy i didnt trust. i had this horrible fear of getting herpes. it was my biggest STD fear, since i worried it would flare my pelvic pain. I was so distraught about this, that i developed blisters and sores in my genitals. My biggest fear came true and i ran to the doctor. Turns out, it was not genital herpes, but in fact a shingles outbreak. It's very rare to have it attack between the legs like that. I had been under massive stress and low immunity. Shingles is in fact a herpes virus, just not the same strain as genital herpes. I really do believe my mental state, combined with this obsession with getting herpes, allowed the outbreak to strike the crotch region...right along the path of the pudendal nerve!

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