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Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by honeybear424, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. MatthewNJ

    MatthewNJ Well known member

    Check out http://www.louisehay.com/ she has an affirmation link with a daily affirmation. I like to do my affirmations before bed and when I get up.

    Honeybear, you got girls? Teenage girls? Check out "Mean Girls" and the book it was based on "Queen Bees and Wanna Bees" by Rosalind Wiseman. And try to get your husband to read it! I didn't "get it" (guys usually don't) until my daughter turned 12 and I was baffled. My sister in law recommended the above. we ALL watched it and listened to the book together. amazing!
    Beach-Girl likes this.
  2. yb44

    yb44 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Mean girls? What about their mean moms? My youngest got involved with two girls at school 4 years ago. They had a great time together and then fell out over something stupid. My dd, no angel herself, threatened the other two, unbeknownst to me. I went to pick dd up after school. She had stayed late to finish a project. So had the other two. Both had alerted their moms who met me in the school grounds and threatened me. I won't go into details but I managed to get my dd home and collapsed, shaking, shivering and crying. There was no one to talk to. I went to the police to report the incident a couple of days later after the mean moms twisted the story and got the school on their side. The police were no help. So I ended up back at the GP begging for beta blockers again because my heart was racing, I was struggling to breathe at times, my anger went through the roof and I was having 24/7 migraines. No surprises there.

    Fast forward. Mean girl 1 later fell out with mean girl 2 and restarted a friendship with dd. I found out and went ballistic and told her i felt so betrayed. She stopped the relationship, feeling bad. Within a few months she took up with mean girl 1 again and they have been best buddies ever since. They are now both ladies, 20 year olds. They are going for a weekend break to Spain together next week. Found out today that my husband is driving them to and from the airport. The first word that popped into my head when I was told was "traitor". I know I need to get over this but I struggle with forgiveness.
    MatthewNJ likes this.
  3. MatthewNJ

    MatthewNJ Well known member

    This is such an Excellent post! Everything you wrote about the girls is in the book. As if you had written it yourself!!
    Let me repeat some of the other stuff you said! You have many great clues to yourself (and to help many others) in this post.
    " So I ended up back at the GP begging for beta blockers again because my heart was racing, I was struggling to breathe at times, my anger went through the roof and I was having 24/7 migraines. No surprises there." the first sentance is all about treating symptoms but the LAST sentance is all about recognizing the real cause! Bravo!

    "went ballistic and told her i felt so betrayed". I have been there done that! Now, when I feel like that, I try (note the word try) to look inside myself and see WHY I am so angry. It is jnever about the other person, it is always about ME.

    "Found out today that my husband is driving them to and from the airport. The first word that popped into my head when I was told was "traitor". " Same note as above paragraph!

    "I know I need to get over this but I struggle with forgiveness". Again, GREAT recognition of what you want to do. I replace "need" with "want". I don;t "need" anything, but there are things I want.

    I was at a spiritual meeting last night, where I waas told the EXACT same thing. It is my father I have to forgive though! It is a challange and a practice . Take strength in the fact that you RECOGNIZE, and you are here on the TMSwiki.

    Again, BRAVO, awesome post!

    Forest likes this.
  4. Beach-Girl

    Beach-Girl Well known member

    Forgiveness is a tough one. I grew up with a "mean mom" who has been gone now for over 10 years. She really messed with me while I was growing up and added to an anxiety disorder "lying in wait."

    But she did the best she could with what she had. And the same goes for you. Don't beat yourself up with your daughter's choices. She is 20 now, and although still needs mom, is able to make her own choices. She knows what "#1" is capable of. She will fend for herself - hopefully. I don't know your daughter or her continued motivation for being friends with "#1".

    However, you need to be forgiving. Because it only serves - you. This happened awhile ago, you did the best YOU could trying to resolve the situation. You didn't fail, you were ignored. Big difference.

    YB - is there something in this situation that is triggering you in other ways? Is there something in your past that is making you feel this way?

    I know you know TMS inside and out. But I couldn't help but ask the question. Is this about you? Or your daughter?


    PS And after all this time, I still find little things my mother pulled that make me angry and resentful. I too am working through these feelings
  5. yb44

    yb44 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Reminds me of the saying, 'you can't forgive others until you learn to forgive yourself'. I think it is far easier sometimes to let others off the hook but continue to flog yourself for alleged misdeeds and indiscretions. Parents are another matter. I forgave my father before he died but my mother...no where near forgiving her. I am, however, in the process of easing up on myself to reduce the inner rage.

    I may want things to happen but I don't need them. Learned that when I was in therapy. Thanks for reminding me, Matthew, and for your kind words.

    BG, this is totally about me. Everyone else has gone their merry way and I am left facing my demons. I am more than sure this is all due to a past issue.
  6. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Isn't this the truth. For me, its probably just my perfectionism playing out, and the high standards I set for myself. It seems like it can be easier to forgive others of much worse things then we will forgive ourselves of. To me the most important thing though is to just understand what's going on and to understand the emotions that drive these personality traits. I think is in line with what Matthew said about wanting, not needing, to forgive ourselves.

    I think of needing to forgive ourselves as something rooted in perfectionsim/goodism. It's like we don't want to be considered a bad person and we are not comfortable with these strong feelings of rage and anger. I think the word want implies that there are changes we desire to make in our lives (i.e. more accepting, forgiving) but we don't have to change to get better. We simply need to understand that these feelings of rage and anger are present.
  7. Beach-Girl

    Beach-Girl Well known member

    I get it. I too have demons hiding here and there that I can't rid myself of.

  8. MatthewNJ

    MatthewNJ Well known member


    I disagree. You CAN and WILL process those "demons". AND the more you do, the more your pain will get better. Trust me, been ther done that! :)

    We all have a dark room we don't want to go in. If we enter, we don't want to turn on the light. If we turn on the light, we hope it is a dimmer switch and we can bring the light up VERY slowly. But, I can tell you, when I have allowed myself glimpses (and I have, more and more), I have found those things aren't so terrible. Stephen King used this process to scare us. And he was hugely succesful at it. If I don't show you the "bad thing", you can imagine bad things to the nth degree. As soon as you see the "bad thing", you can say, "oh, that really isn't so bad, what WAS I scared of".

    Obviously, Easier said than done. But, practice , practice, practice, and you WILL get better at it. and that kind of "better" is permanent!
    Forest and MorComm like this.
  9. honeybear424

    honeybear424 Well known member

    And is the only way to process these "demons" through journaling, Matthew? I guess my demons have got me in such a grip, because I don't know what it feels like to "not" have any pain.
  10. MatthewNJ

    MatthewNJ Well known member

    I suggest being careful with the use of "only". that is very black and white, and leads us to places that don't give us much in the way of choice. You choose how you live and respond to things. Each of us is different and will heal with different modalities. this is from someone who is recently starting to undestand that there is "grey" in between the black and the white :).

    Journaling is one method. Counseling is another. Sharing on this forum is another. I have found, that once I know some of the "usual suspects" (triggers, "buttons") and I have gotten to a place that I am more mindful, I can process some of it on my own in the moment. This took LOTS of practice and many sessions with Dr. Evans. I am a work in progress.

    I would suggest, that you re-frame "I guess my demons have got me in such a grip" to something that doesn't give the demons power over you. YOU are more powerful than they are. I am even re-thinking the word demons. How about "I am learning what message the pain is trying to indicate. In this way I can release those issues from my mindbody". Just and idea. If it resonates with you, go for it. If not, find your own way to re frame this. Have you read the"Four Agreements" by don Miguel Ruiz?
    Enrique likes this.
  11. honeybear424

    honeybear424 Well known member

    You're right, Matthew. I have to be careful with the words I choose to use. Ironically, I have never used the "demon" word to describe my issues before my previous post. I only used it after BG used it. lol But then I added the "grip" part which is pretty negative. I've been watching the "You Can Heal Your Life" video every few days, but old habits can be hard to break, can't they? :)

    Also, I do tend to be a very black and white thinker...another thing I need to work on.

    My old copy of "The Four Agreements" literally fell apart, so I recently ordered a new one. I thought it would be helpful for my youngest daughter to read since she has been struggling with anxiety. Unfortunately, she told me she wasn't interested in reading it. Thanks for reminding me of it. Think I will have her give it back to me so that "I" can read it again.
  12. MatthewNJ

    MatthewNJ Well known member

    Exactly! I totally get it with the kids! It's as if we as parents, haven't a clue what we are talking about! hopefully by the time they hit 30, they will get it! that's when I realized my Dad was right.. at 30!! LOL. anyway, my son caught on at about age 22 or so. I see that as positive as he is about 8 years ahead of where I was at! My goal has been that if I can do better tan my parents, my kids will do better than me and there kids will do better, etc. so far it is working!

    One thing that helped me a great deal with the practicing and the Four Agreements was this. I was a member of a spirtual group that practiced them. We would discuss one agreement and then practice for a week. Then we discussed how we had done, and discuss the next one. We do this over a peroid of 5 weeks. We repeat the whole cycle about evey six months . this is really helpful to see how others process it. When I am at work, I observe people around me and how they use or don't use (mostly don't use) the 4 agreements. That is very informative as well.

    Old habits are VERY hard to break. A simply example is I quit smoking almost 20 years ago. Frequently when I reach into my breast pocket, I expect to find a pack of cigarettes there! I still have urges to smoke 20 years later! Think about it. We (you and I are close to the same age) have been doing the same stuff for over 40 years! It will not change over tomorrow. When I am in a rush to "get there", Dr. Evans would gently remind me that "it takes about one lifetime". Yikes! I am leaning to enjoy the journey more, and forget about the destination! Put the paddel down and let the current take you!

    Keep watching Louise Hay. She is awesome! Here is a 50 minute video of Dr. Bruce Lipton. This guy has a Phd in biology and was a tenured profesor teaching medical students. He quit when he realized what he was teaching our future doctors was wrong! : absolutley facinating if you ike the scientific perspective:
  13. Beach-Girl

    Beach-Girl Well known member

    For the record: I NEVER USE THE WORD DEMONS - I was quoting someone else. People in my store, gotta run!

  14. MatthewNJ

    MatthewNJ Well known member


    BRAVO! now that is three of us, you, me and Honeybear. Hey, when do I get some advice on sport kites? Iput something on your profile site, did you see it
  15. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Interesting too that what Dr. Lipton says about ongoing stress in modern society correlates so precisely with what Peter A. Levine says in Waking the Tiger about how ongoing stress, anxiety and fear in our day-to-day lives creates a continuous fight/flight syndrome (and sometimes a 'freeze' response too) that results in traumatic symptoms like TMS and PTSD. Dr. Lipton also seems right on the money when he delineates the conflict between the conscious mind that creates anxiety based on fear of future events and the unconscious mind that perpetuates habitual patterns of thought and behavior that were programmed before our 6th birthdays. Sounds very much too like what Dr. Sarno is saying in the Divided Mind about the conflict at this stage of our biological evolution between the neomammalian and paleomammalian minds.

    I found it particularly intriguing when Dr. Lipton admits that when he first understood this stuff it did not really improve his life. People asked him, "If this is so, why did you just have a nasty divorce, etc. etc. etc.?" But Lipton then admits that he hadn't yet applied this key information he knew consciously to his programmed unconscious patterns of thought and acting and, of course, that's what we're all trying to do here on the TMSwiki.

    Interesting, 'heady' stuff! Thanks for posting, Matthew!
  16. yb44

    yb44 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Okay. I confess...because I am a goodist. It was me who used the word 'demons'. I will try harder to translate my thoughts into more positive language. Good point, Matthew.
  17. Beach-Girl

    Beach-Girl Well known member

    Again, never said it in the first place. (insert smiley here) Yes - answered you! Should we start a thread on sport kites? lol

  18. MatthewNJ

    MatthewNJ Well known member

    Morcomm, I know that doesn't surprise you. "heady stuff" is my middle name! ... I am always reading this stuff. I love a "western" guy turned spiritual (or eastern)! Here is another one: "The Bond" by Lynn McTaggert. From Amazon: "What matters is not the isolated entity, but the space between things, the relationship of things. The Bond." She is a tough read, tons of data and information, but.. well worth it. I listened to it on CD and that made it easier. She is also on Ted.com. She shoots Darwin in the foot showing that survival of the fittest doesn't work, it is the group that survives! Also that we are born altruistic and WANT to help each. And she shoots individualistic, competitive societies in the foot too! Proving (in my mind at least) that this is NOT the way were intended to be. And all that individualism and competition creates .... you guessed it .... unnecessary Fight or flight!
    Enrique likes this.

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