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Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Day-Cee, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. Day-Cee

    Day-Cee Peer Supporter

    Hello everybody!

    First I'd like to thank the people that are behind this website, I really think it will help me during my recovery.

    Okay, so long story short (I'd like to keep the long story for the success story in the future :). I've been suffering of back-pain for the past 5 years.

    As far as I can remember, I've always had back pain (even when I was 7-8 years old, some hockey ''drills'' would bring me temporary back-pain, looking back, I freakin hated those drills!!!). I use to be a really active person, playing every sport and taking care of my body and health. 5 years, i had another episode of mild back pain, nothing too disabling, just a little incorfort. I was use to those type of episode so I just did the same thing I use to do when that happens, going to a Chiropractor. After a couple of adjustment, pain was gone. However, a couple of days after the pain has been gone, I had bad hockey accident, cross-check by behind and my head fell directly into the board. I remember behind so scared for a fraction of second that I checked if my leg was still responding and not paralyzed...

    Anyway, since then, 2 MRI's, 1 CT Scan, 1 EMG, don't know how many blood test, probably over 10,000$ in specialists (Physio, Osteo, Acupuncture, Massage etc...) and a constant pain...

    I don't exactly remember how, but about a month ago I ended-up on the Book healing back pain on amazon... The reviews were amazing so I investigated (I already had at least 10 books for back pain). I listened to the 20/20 clip, Howard Stern show and a magnificent video from Kareem on youtube. I was maybe not convinced, but curious and optimistic for the first time in years... I therefore ordered the last three books of Dr. Sarno, just finished Mind-Body prescription and I'm now starting The divided mind...

    I really think that I'm a TMS type, don't want to elaborate on the subject but I definitely see myself in this book, maybe not every page like some people are saying, but definitely in a lot of them... I'm trying to apply Sarno principle but its not that easy as some of you might think. Now I think that I want to see a TMS doctor. The problem is, I think I might WANT to believe that I have TMS, and I'm thinking a doctor could help me... I'm living in Canada (Quebec) therefore, from what I can see, there's no TMS doctor around here... I was really disappointed to learn that Dr. Sarno retired in 2012, although he deserves a nice and long retirement, I think HE'S the one...

    But now, close to my area there's two TMS physician, Marc Sopher and Ira Rashbaum. I'm willing to do the travelling. Did any body here tried those two doctor? I was initially planning to see Rashbaum since he's the one who know the most Dr. Sarno. However some review of him on the forum here make me think he might not be the one I need...

    Also, does the Sarno lectures worth it? For me here with tax and shipping it would cost me around 130$... I find that a little steep... Any comments?

    Finally, is there still hope without Sarno? I mean, I know that some people are able to recover only by reading Sarno's books, however, even him says that this is only 20% of the people, and that the rest need to work with him... I'm guessing that this guys is so smart and has a so strong personality that meeting him is life changing...

    Thanks for your help guys and I'll keep you posted on my recovery.

    Dom (it was a long story finally)
    Colly likes this.
  2. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Dom! welcomea I chuckled over your thorough search with the TMS books. Just a little TMS trait there…we're good bird dogs when it comes to finding information. Most of us here have devoured several books (and continue to).

    Re: The Dr. Sarno lectures. I had the good fortune of watching them while they were posted on Youtube. Someone must have boot-legged a copy and posted it. It wasn't up really long. The lectures are good but I personally wouldn't spend $130 on them (our budget has been very, very tight)…ESPECIALLY because you can get the audio version of Healing Back Pain with him reading it. I listen to it most every day still. Or night if I'm waking up with pain or anxiety. It's like I have him whispering encouragement to me. (Okay, that sounds a little creepy but you know what I mean, eh? ;) )

    Dom, if you feel like you would benefit from a visit with either one of those docs, I'd make an appointment. I drove 1,500 miles to see Dr. Schubiner. I just felt like I needed that verification. I wish I could say I got a miracle cure at that moment but I didn't. What I DID get was verification from a leading authority on TMS. I felt like it was important to myself for a few different reasons. Number one - I've had TMS since I was very young. Leg pains would wake me when I was 4 or so. I can still remember the pain… Much of my 50 years on this planet have been plagued with pain and I felt like I needed "the big guns" as it were.

    Number two - I felt like I needed to send a message to my subconscious that I was going to take healing seriously and begin to value myself…instead of cursing the body that houses aches and pains.

    I hope this is helpful. And yes, please keep us posted on your recovery!

    Warmest wishes to you!
    Forest likes this.
  3. Day-Cee

    Day-Cee Peer Supporter

    Thanks North Star!

    Indeed, I do have a lot of TMS personality traits... I always try to avoid conflicts, I'm really competitive, the image I give to other for me always been important, and although I did not think of myself as a perfectionist, I can see that I am a little bit... When I was scoring a 2 goals game in hockey, I could not stop thinking about the chance I missed after the game to score a third one... If I had A in school, I was pissed at myself of missing the A+ and so on...

    For me perfectionist was people that were really looking at everything into detail, like reading an email 5 times before sending it etc... Sarno's books opened my eyes and made me realized that its not only this...

    Anyway, yes I really feel A TMS doctor could help me... Btw, anybody is aware of the costs of seeing one of these doctors? It won't be covered by my insurance since I'm in Canada :S...

    Thanks again for your reply
    North Star likes this.
  4. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Day-Cee, before seeing a TMS doctor, start the free Structured Education Program at that subforum.
    It will guide you through a day-by-day program of TMS healing.

    You definitely have perfectionist personality traits, and need to modify them.
    But you also may have repressed emotions causing your pain. For me and many others,
    that involved hidden anger that went back to my childhood. That led me to better understanding
    my parents and older brother and realizing that they had their own TMS repressed anger.
    That led me to forgiving them and that led me to losing my pain.

    You've come to the right place to become free of your pain. We are a community of TMS people
    who have recovered or are recovering from our repressed emotions and personality traits that
    need modifying.
  5. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Dom, It blew my mind when I opened the bill for my visit. It was under $300 if I remember correctly. And my insurance DID cover it. I was expecting it to run over $1,000 at least. The code he used however was for fibromyalgia so it would be covered.

    I hope you find a happy surprise like I did. :)
    Forest likes this.
  6. Day-Cee

    Day-Cee Peer Supporter

    Thanks Walt, I will definetely try the Free structured education program. Thanks for responding

    Wow NS this is a good news, I was also expecting something around 1,000$... And I was willing to pay since for the first time in years, I feel hope... And not one of those SCAM hope... If you know what I mean...

    Thanks guys
    North Star likes this.
  7. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yeah, Day-Cee, I hope Dr. Schubiner has better streams of income that meeting with TMS patients! He spent over 2 hours with me. Managed care wouldn't tolerate that for a minute. It's clear his work is a labor of love.

    The more I learn from these healers, I see the TMS specialists as being extraordinarily generous and and caring human beings.
    Forest likes this.
  8. Day-Cee

    Day-Cee Peer Supporter

    Hi guys,

    So I finally contacted Dr Sopher by emai , unfortunately he does not practice anymore due to health issues... however he still see patient via Skype. Although I'm a little bit disappointed by the situation, I might book a session with him.

    Hey I have a question for you... As mentioned in my first post, I finished my first Sarno book about a month and a half - two months ago. I was feeling better, but the problem is that I started another treatment at the same time. it's actually a diet that eliminates toxins from your body. It is very popular here in Quebec and there is a lot of scientific studies going on about this treatment at this moment. It can apparently cure most of inflammatory disease.

    So I started Sarno's regiment and this diet about at the same time. After 4 weeks, although not pain free, I was feeling better. You guys need to understand that I am rarely in agonizing pain, I just constantly have a discomfort in my back and my legs.

    Since I really believe in TMS and one of TMS principle is that you must stop any other treatment that could lead you to believe that you're problem could be something else that psychosomatic, well I decided to stop the diet. That was about a week ago. And now I feel the pain coming back...

    I know that asking the question is probably answering it but, do you guys think that this is my mind trying to play a trick on me? Trying to capitalize on the fact that this could lead me to throw away my belief about TMS?

    Anybody had a similar situation?

  9. Colly

    Colly Beloved Grand Eagle

    Eh Yep. I tried a macrobiotic diet some years ago to rid my body of pain and it didn't work, but my skin looked great and I kept in good shape so it was still worthwhile:)

    Just eat well and get on with life. If you add other treatments, such as EFT or diet-related, then do so on the basis that they will be good for you, and will compliment your real TMS work, which is understanding and dealing with the psychological basis of the pain.

    BTW Dr Sopher was seriously unwell, so the fact that he can give Skype sessions now is a blessing in itself. I don't live in a country awash with wonderful TMS specialists, but thankfully Skype has given the rest of the world access to these brilliant minds, so soak it up!
    Ellen likes this.
  10. Day-Cee

    Day-Cee Peer Supporter

    Thanks Colly! I've always eated well anyway, I just completely stop because I wanted to have no doubt in my mind that my improvement was due to TMS treatment.

    However, my question was not towarded to diet really, but I'm wondering if anybody actually had a step back after stoping any other treatment (Chiropractor or whatever).

    I was actually going to treatment at least once every two weeks. I never went back since I read Dr. Sarno's book. The fact that my condition did not get worse gave me confidence in the diagnostic... Since after all, if it was really physical, I should get worse by stopping treatments...

    But I'm wondering if the fact that I really believed in the diet could be a strike against me, is the mind smart enough to take advantage of this and try to make me think that the pain would get back because I stopped the diet? Desperately trying to make me give-up the TMS diagnosis?

  11. Colly

    Colly Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes Day-Cee, that's how sneaky the mind is sometimes! The more you connect your special diet to being pain-free the more the brain will throw a tantrum when you take the toys (diet) away.

    In the early stages of TMS healing the brain will throw all manner of obstacles in your way to constantly challenge your belief that you have TMS. You need to be defiant at this stage and not give it any power over you. It may take a while, but your goal is to be indifferent to these distractions. I found mocking my own brain worked. Laugh at your brain and tell it you know what it's trying to do, and tell it to take a hike!
    Tennis Tom, Forest and Ellen like this.
  12. Day-Cee

    Day-Cee Peer Supporter

    Transport Colly, much appreciated:)
  13. Day-Cee

    Day-Cee Peer Supporter

    Autocorrect on my previous post :p

    I think I have a good news today... For about 2 days, I experienced less or no back pain :D. However, I started to have acid reflux... I personally think that it's a good sign cause its most likely what Dr. Sarno calls substitution and that would confirm the TMS diagnosis:D

    I still have work to do though since this would also mean that my brain doesn't want to let it go...

    What do you think?

    Forest likes this.
  14. Back2-It

    Back2-It Peer Supporter

    If all your tests have found nothing, I think you have to understand that you most likely have an anxiety disorder. Before traveling a great distance for medical opinion, it might prove useful to examine what a few others have said about chronic pain and other symptoms within an anxiety disorder.

    Some additional reading material:

    1. Mental Health Through Will-Training, Abraham Low MD.
    2. Manager Your Anger, Manage Your Fears, Abraham Low MD.
    3. Hope and Help for Your Nerves, Claire Weekes, MD.
    4. Passing Through Panic (CD's), Claire Weekes, MD.
    5. Get Out of Your Mind and into Your Life, Steven C. Hayes, PhD.
    6. How to Relax, Edmund Jacobson, PhD.

    With the exception of the Hayes book, all were written prior to Dr. Sarno books, so there was hope prior to Dr. Sarno and hope afterward, as well.

    Dr. Sarno talks about getting the right diagnosis in order to get well, and it is my belief that TMS --severe muscle tension-- is the result of an anxiety disorder, most likely but not necessarily, a General Anxiety Disorder. Anyway, the above may help you to determine a solid course of treatment. If you do have an anxiety disorder, no doctor or therapist can "cure" you, but only provide advice on how to contain your fears and eliminate underlying conditions.

    You will get there!
  15. Day-Cee

    Day-Cee Peer Supporter

    Thx Back2-it

    However Are you saying that You think that TMS could not be the right diagnosis and that it could be more General Axiety Disorder?

    Question to all the community:
    when are you doing your journaling? In the morning or at night?
  16. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I preferred doing my journaling in the morning.
    In the evening I prefer not thinking about TMS, repressed emotions, journaling.
    I just watch a good movie (usually an old one) and then do some meditating an hour before going to bed (usually 9 pm).
    In bed I do deep breathing and often count backwards from 100 to 1, which keeps me living in the present
    and drives away worries and other distractions.
  17. Back2-It

    Back2-It Peer Supporter

    What I am saying is this: that Dr. Sarno applied the designation of "TMS" to hyper tight and tense muscles, the cause of most back pain. "TMS" on its own is not a recognized malady. Hyper tense and tight muscles are a well known symptom of an anxiety disorder or what used to be called "nervous tension". Understanding that can broaden your choices of medical and psychological help.
  18. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Anxiety is an affective form of TMS.
  19. Back2-It

    Back2-It Peer Supporter

    TT, with all due respect, you're putting the cart before the horse. Nobody can get psychological help by going to a therapist and asking for help with their "TMS", unless they are seeking help within the small world of TMS practitioners, and most of them tailor their practices to resemble a form of CBT, so most of the practitioners have to know they are dealing with an anxiety disorder, not some orphan diagnosis called "TMS", and they should say so!

    I'm not going to argue the point of this beyond this, but I will say that anybody seeking help with muscular tension, the cause of most back pain, can often find relief by working within the context of an anxiety disorder. The OP is faced with long travel and few choices for a "TMS" doctor. What I pointed to were books and sources, most of of which described and treated successfully muscular tension due to "nerves" and "anxiety" before Dr. Sarno even started to practice and even prior to his birth.
  20. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    If you go to a doc for anxiety they'll give you xanax or some other pill to treat your symptom, you'll be sedated but your emotional problems that are causing your TMS will not have been dealt with. You can be on traquilizers for the rest of your life or your TMS anxiety symptom may go away to be replaced by another TMS symptom, physical or affective, the SYMPTOM IMPERATIVE. You can see a shrink or a shrink like person like a psychotherapist or a "counselor" and they will treat your TMS anxiety symptom in a doctor like fashion. They will take your money for as long as you'll keep seeing them to be a paid for buddy--but not treat your over-all TMS mindbodily. I've spoken with many "therapist-shrink-buddys for hire" and they are clueless about the MINDBODY TMS condition, and not interested at all in learning about it. They have thrown themselves over into the allopathic Carthesian camp with the MD's and would like to be confused with real docs. White coats can be easily purchased at a uniform store, there are so many quacktitioners trying to be confused with real doctors such as chiros, accus, foot-docs etc. Even real docs are taking in chiros and other PT's under their roof to get a cut of the pain racket because they can't treat chronic TMS pain from their traditional 10 minute visit. To get real and permanent TMS relief getting more bang for your buck, see a TMS trained doc, for the DX. It's worth traveling great distances to one since if it's TMS they only have to see you once for that DX. How much time, money and life have you wasted on chronic pains? People travel around the world for exotic vacations and it's an adventure , why can't a sufferer travel to see a true healer--combine it with a vacation. If after the initial TMS DX, the sub-c still resists the KNOWLEDGE PENICILLIN, then a TMS'er can phone or skype a TMS therapist like SteveO, Nicole Sachs or many of the others listed at this wiki who routinely do that.

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