New Request/Please Help?

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ChristopherJ34

New Member
I am dealing with a very severe condition and pray I can get help & direction on this site. I have been suffering from Protracted Antidepressant Withdrawal for over two years causing the most significant, constant symptoms (ie panic, headaches, blurred vision, vertigo like dizziness, fatigue, etc). I am a very normal 50 year old, healthy professional with a family…zero history of mental illness and like many never should have been on these drugs to begin with. I have had so many tests and treatments for cellular, neurological, etc issues that even all many of my doctors now believe this is TMS….and so do I. Someone with an almost identical situation had this condition and did pretty basic TMS protocol…and eventually got 100% better…he even made a documentary about it that the industry believes is game changing. Dr. Schubiner talked about how acute withdrawal is very real but protracted withdrawal is almost always TMS. So here is the rub:

This is trauma induced. I had a horrible withdrawal reaction to a psych med that caused the worst mental/physical symptoms (almost identical) for 5 mths back in 2016…then I got better and fully back to normal..but it was very traumatic. However, I had the same thing happen again two years ago, I’ve freaked out, but this time it won’t stop - even though every medical professional in the US and Europe that I have seen say the period for these symptoms has wayyyy passed. It’s my any my medical team’s belief 1) this is now TMS 2) its being caused by my fear & trauma associated with the past & then the event happening again 3) now I’m stuck in a loop of either experiencing flares all day, post flare panic after passing, AND pre flare expecting it to happen again any moment. I have read all Schubiner books, one Sarno book, watched countless Dan Buglio videos and listen to Nicole Sachs podcasts.

How do I turn this ship around and start to calm a dysregulated nervous system that cant calm down due to being a constant state/fear of fight or flight??
 
First of all, I see so much fear and anxiety in your post.
You’ve given your symptoms a “medical name” and call them “severe”.
Let’s start there.
Do you have any inkling of belief this is TMS or a mind/body disorder? You say your “medical team” believes this, but do you?
Do you recognize the amount of fear and anxiety not just towards these symptoms but perhaps life in general?
What is “basic TMS work” to you?

welcome!

I’m going to leave you with this nugget from @TG957 which she wrote else where: the people on this forum she sees over 9 years who have had the most success - “They all were able to develop enough inner strength and freedom to become their own doctors, and instead of shopping around for somebody who would rescue them from the abyss, they compiled their own method of climbing out of the abyss.”
 
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Hi @ChristopherJ34
welcomea
You are 100 percent in the right place. But you won’t feel better right away. It’s going to take time and work. It’s awesome you’re familiar with Sarno, Dan Buglio and Nicole Sachs. All of those are great resources. You’ll have to study and learn and then chart your own unique course to healing that will be conducted by trial and error as you go along. There really is no one silver bullet to save you. What you’ve really got going for you is that even doctors have told you that you have TMS. This is so much more than so many people have!

You recognize that you have a deregulated nervous system, and you are absolutely right. It’s really hard when something from the past triggers a new round of TMS. But any kind of TMS, with any symptoms, that has lasted however long, can be healed.

For calming your nervous system, try reading this excellent book. It’s short and will blow your mind. Hope and Help for Your Nerves, by Claire Weeks, MD. Your symptoms of panic, headaches, blurred vision, vertigo like dizziness, fatigue are all anxiety symptoms. Dr. Weekes explains what’s happening to you and how to respond to it to make it go away.

There are also tons of other resources available here, and the advice offered by members of this forum is lifesaving.

Take a deep breath! Start getting some soothing head talk going. You are OK. You will get better!
 
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Two great responses, @ChristopherJ34, and welcome to the forum and our community.
1. Make that commitment to yourself as @Cactusflower posted.
2. Read and commit to the practices of Claire Weekes as @Diana-M posted.
3. Then make a commitment to "do the work" which around here means to stop researching and questioning, find a program, and stick to it.

I'm having some very strong instinctive thoughts about your story, Christopher:

First, I sense that you are pretty open to a new approach, which is a great start!

Second, I'm going to offer my completely unqualified, gut-feeling opinion that this medication trauma reaction didn't happen by chance. If you're open to it, and considering that at this point you don't have anything to lose by trying this, what if you stopped thinking about why the trauma came back and why you're currently suffering from it, and go back to why it happened in the first place?

I suspect that the work you need to do lies there, and based on my 13 years of hanging out on this forum I actually suspect even more strongly that the real answer is much more than two years in the past. I can tell you for sure that it's not in the present.

I expect you've had therapy before, but was it ever trauma-based? And/or have you examined your past for adverse childhood experiences? (often referred to as ACEs).

These are just guesses on my part, but it's actually important for us to have a brief basic understanding of your true history.

The thing is, what we call TMS is actually a normal brain mechanism, not a standalone "condition" that can simply be "cured". Everything is connected, and it always, always, always, starts in childhood, which is when our individual TMS mechanisms started helping us to survive this world from the moment of birth. Sometimes even earlier.

Does that make sense?
 
@Cactusflower - Yes, I do believe this is TMS 110% percent (put that in my initial post and underlined/bold as I want all to know I am convinced what this is and isn't. I am 55 years old, had a very charmed/zero problem childhood and very little fear/anxiety until this trauma started in '08 but was short lived. It happening again, has been the "trauma" and psych drug withdrawal/reactions for anyone that has been through them will say, even if they are the toughest Naval Seal, they are terrifying.....but should be brief and short lived. I'd love to know what suggestions you may have on how to address this and start turning the ship around to one of health & happiness again.
FYI, I love this: “They all were able to develop enough inner strength and freedom to become their own doctors, and instead of shopping around for somebody who would rescue them from the abyss, they compiled their own method of climbing out of the abyss.” I am def my own doctor now, Im not doing any more shopping around..Im burning my ships like Columbus did on TMS as Im certain that is what this is...Just need a good plan for climbing out of the abyss.
 
@Diana-M - Thanks for getting back to me. Just bought the Dr. Weeks book...Excited to read it and will do so immediately. I understand what you are saying about "my own inner" course. I am the one that got me here but I am also the one that can (and will) get me out of it...Again, I'm committed, convinced and excited (even though I feel like $&$%). I agree all of this fear, trauma, and the symptoms they have caused/how they have impacted my body are from a dysregulated nervous system...but also one that can be calmed and fixed.
 
@JanAtheCPA - Thanks for the response. Couple things:
1. Yes, I am 110% believing and committed....110% open
2. Dr. Weekes...Just bought the book...will read and committed to putting to practice
3. Why this in the first place?...I'd love guidance on that and am working with a therapist...but here is some feedback: I'm 55 and had a charmed/beautiful childhood so nothing there. Had some issues later in life (ie failed business, health issues, etc) but while all was "tough" it was not traumatic and while I hated going through it, so much good came out of it. The acute withdrawal from psych meds the first time was truly traumatizing...per the above...there is not a Navy Seal that could brush that off and I'm sure I developed some TMS during that 5 mth period (ie it was not just all acute withdrawal). Then, it happened again recently and was totally unexpected/not placebo'd on my part. I did completely freakout and the fear/trauma set in and it has deteriorated me daily for 1.5 years. I know for a fact nothing is wrong with my brain/body, this is TMS, its due to that trauma and I need to find a way to not fear the fear or somehow find peace as I am safe, nothing is wrong, and I know when this all "clicks" whenever that date/time is, its gonna slowly and surely get better. But I need to find how to deal with that anxiety/fear/trauma? Any encouraging suggestions, Im all ears and ready to turn this ship around on the right course.
 
ChristopherJ34 said:
@Diana-M - Thanks for getting back to me. Just bought the Dr. Weeks book...Excited to read it and will do so immediately. I understand what you are saying about "my own inner" course. I am the one that got me here but I am also the one that can (and will) get me out of it...Again, I'm committed, convinced and excited (even though I feel like $&$%). I agree all of this fear, trauma, and the symptoms they have caused/how they have impacted my body are from a dysregulated nervous system...but also one that can be calmed and fixed.
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I’ve had anxiety my whole life and wished I’d found Claire Weekes much sooner! As far as fear that has set in for legit reasons… that’s a tricky one I haven’t mastered yet. But, I’m coming to believe that inner head talk has a lot to do with getting better, and it takes time for it to sink in. The code word for these changes in TMS land is “deconditioning.” You’ve been conditioned to have this reaction. To fix it is called Deconditioning. I did a search on the wiki and here are some posts on it. https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/search/5835874/?q=Deconditioning&o=date
Since our brains are neuroplastic (changeable), we can rewrite how they react and then slowly retrain them. You have a great attitude. You’re going to get this!
 
"Just need a good plan for climbing out of the abyss."
So just to be clear, we don't have explicit "directions" or a "plan" to get you "out". We can help you find YOUR own way out. That is exactly what we mean by "being your own doctor". You'll need to stop looking for other people or plans to get you out.
Some of the mindset/psychology of TMS is so insidiously sneaky, we don't even recognize we think the way we do.
My own personal thoughts around protracted drug withdrawl are fear and anger.
You mention that you don't have a history of mental health issues, but you were on an anti-depressant, so that has me confused.

So yes, you are probably right that you really need to begin by working on your fear and anxiety and looking at things that trigger you into "freak-outs" (which, absolutely are mental health issues) and THEN you'll be in a place to be more open, honest and vulnerable about the rest of the work you need to do. Because it won't end there at just fear and anxiety...you'll see where this incident isn't the only place in your life where those two elements were at play, but much of it is simply buried deeply in the subconscious. Yes, it does go back into childhood, but as Gabor Mate points out, trauma or a difficult childhood isn't always the meter of what's going on in your subconscious. EVERY person developed childhood anger and rage because that's what the subconscious does and it IS - that tantruming two year old in your head that always wants his own way. You don't even need to excavate it - just acknowledge it's there and see it for what it is, and accept that you have emotions that are deep within the well that are considered so unacceptable to you conscious person that they create a division. It's the entire conflict of who you present to the world vs. the inner hidden you. This element is almost always where the disregulation of the nervous system comes from. Dr. Hanscom discusses how this conflict and the thoughts we have around it create the chemicals which give us physical symptoms however, they are the same chemicals of emotion. When we alleviate the fear and anxiety in life (and not just the current symptoms) we can gain balance.
So it's a mix of doing the emotional work with great vulnerability, openness and feeling along with "stuff" we do to calm the nervous system (for some it might be somatic tracking, others meditation, some walking in nature....others it's sports) and perhaps and most often an overhaul of our mindset.
It's also simplifying all of this so we can eventually just absorb it into our daily life.

So when you read Dr. Schubiner's book, did you complete the work excercises he lays out, which includes journaling styles etc. and what did you think of that?
Have you tried journaling the way Nichole Sach's discusses. There are similarities, but Schubiner offers some really nice options that kind of force vulnerability like, unsent letters.
Have you read anything by Claire Weekes? Her books are super valuable and give more guidance and direction which is what you might need for fear. She discusses how to begin to soften your reactions to symptoms, she also discusses layers of fear which I think will be valuable to you.
Lastly, have you ordered Nichol's upcoming book, out next month called Mind Your Body. She has said she gives a good plan, which I think might help you stop worrying about actually having a plan and give you a little peace of mind to begin putting that plan into practice.

OK, now to meat and potatoes. I began to soften my reactions to symptoms by reminding myself I was FINE. Dr. Sarno says these symptoms are BENIGN. I mean I had that sucker on repeat like 1,000 times or more per day.
Then, I began to tell myself NO. I'd have a fear thought about a symptom and say "NO, NOT GOING THERE" and forcefully redirect my attention. This was very hard in the middle of a pseudo-seizure where I could not physically move for minutes at a time...but quickly that moved on to me actually laughing at my own brain, and it's ridiculous creativity to protect me from the "vast unknown" of TMS. Recently I heard a podcast that directly addresses this fear of uncertainty with symptoms. What they talk about is basically what I did to stop the fear, worry, rumination etc. around the symptoms and then I began to relate it to other elements in my life. That is the vulnerability - seeing and being open to seeing that what you are experiencing now is not isolated, but it has always shown up in other parts of your life, you've just chosen not to acknowledge it. That is exactly the stuff your brain has been protecting you from. I chose to stop my mind from trying to protect me from every little thing by facing all those things with as much openness and honesty as I can muster. When I don't want to deal with it, I acknowledge that too - and know that putting it on the back burner doesn't make it go away, it just means I've got work to do for another day.

It may help you:


You'll get there. I think you are also perhaps panicking that you might not get there...but you've already proven that you can.
 
Cactusflower said:
You mention that you don't have a history of mental health issues, but you were on an anti-depressant, so that has me confused.
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I was going to say the same thing
ChristopherJ34 said:
had a charmed/beautiful childhood so nothing there.
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Yeah, my radar twitched the first time you wrote this phrase. I had a very fortunate, safe and loving childhood, myself but "charmed and beautiful"? This reminds me of the famous comment about Portia in The Merchant of Venice: "... methinks the lady doth protest too much..."

I'll also refer to Nicole Sachs LCSW, who tells us that "No one escapes childhood unscathed".

I'm currently listening to the new book by Gabor Mate MD, The Myth of Normal, which explains this in more detail, when he discusses the difference between so-called "big-T" vs "little-t" traumas, and how every childhood accrues instances of little traumas which affect our mental and physical health in adulthood.

It still goes back to basic Sarno theory (going back to Freud, as you'll recall) which is that everyone on this journey needs to learn about the many little emotional repressions that are being buried by our primitive TMS brain mechanism. The repressions build up over time until they can't be repressed without an overlay of symptoms, symptoms which include depression, anxiety and OCD in addition to the infinite universe of physical and neuro symptoms.

It all starts by facing and acknowledging the truth about reality. You're making a good start. Now you need to take some risks.

I recommend our Structured Educational Program, free of cost or registration requirements on the main TMSWiki.org. Or, as @Cactusflower mentioned, doing the exercises in Dr Schubiner's Unlearn Your Pain workbook which are similar to the SEP. These exercises must be done with brutal self-honesty and commitment.
 
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@Cactusflower and @JanAtheCPA I was going through a divorce and was stressed..a family member gave me bottle of Xanax which I took for a month/stopped/had a horrible withdrawal reaction…to stop to the symptoms my primary care doctor convinced me an antidepressant would be the cure all/help…it didn’t and then getting off that was brutal. Again, I believe in acute withdrawal but not this protracted withdrawal…Dr Schubiner said the same in an interview and another person who had success with TMS approach for the same situation are what I’m anchoring my beliefs to. I know this is TMS tied to fear
 
@Cactusflower - Thanks for the info. Couple things:
- Gonna come up with MY plan not others….good advice. Yes I’ve read Sarno, did some of the Schubiner and Sachs exercises, went through ReOrigin but my symptoms were so bad I couldn’t focus on the work. I am gonna now do my game plane - do the TMSwiki day-by-day plan + blend in what has resonated w me (ie facts, Weekes fear exercise, meditation, prayer and affirmation's along w all I’ve learned from Buglio, Sachs, Sarno, etc)
- My primary problem without any doubt is fear…fear of symptoms, post fear after they pass, pre fear before they happen. I’ve never really had fear before (ie Im a private pilot and have stalled/spinned planes at 10,000 feet accomplished a lot in corporate world, etc) but when this happened in 08 and then again last year/and hasn’t stopped, my fear says “this is the scariest feeling in the world and it’s not stopping” like it’s supposed to (because it’s TMS ) …but the fear is what is driving it and getting control of that will be what conquers it.
 
@JanAtheCPA - Agree I’ve had a great childhood but some “small T’s” prob blend into this. My primary issue as I wrote above is fear. I’ve never really had fear or like this except the withdrawal experience 8 years before . Both times were/are the scariest experiences of my life…almost like one constant panic attack lasting a 1 1/2 years (no joke). The daily fear during it, after it and before it happens has now taken root and that is what I am gonna get control of and regulate my nervous system. I know this is TMS and I know this can be done. Got to find my way. If you have suggestions for fear based approaches I can learn/add, that would be great.
 
Hi Christopher,

Dan Buglio’s new book, Pain Free You: Teach Your Brain to End Your Pain, lists things that can trigger TMS through perceived danger. I was surprised to see he listed medication fears as one of them. He says:

“Medication: Fear of a medication’s side effects, or even withdrawal from them, can absolutely be the perceived danger that causes new symptoms or your current symptoms to get more intense. While there may be legitimate side effects, fear can amplify it all.”

Claire Weekes points out repeatedly that being sensitized causes a person to view (and fear) everything in an extreme way.

What you are feeling, though terrible and frightening, is typical and common for TMSers. And it can be overcome. Don’t doubt that. You will get out of this.
 
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@Diana-M - Thanks. Confirms everything. Just need to believe (which I do), have the knowledge (which I’m gaining), do the work (which I’ve started) and the results will eventually come. I’m excited for this journey cause I know I can do it and know this is the missing piece to my health problems
 
Diana-M said:
lists things that can trigger TMS through perceived danger. I was surprised to see he listed medication fears as one of them.
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LOL, this doesn't surprise me at all, Diana! I've mentioned here and there that if you start paying attention to the list of possible side effects in any medication info sheet, apart from the ones that are significant and unique to that drug, they almost always include a list of symptoms that are characterized as low-concern and typically short-lived, and they are always the same list of symptoms that accompany anxiety: specifically headache, dizziness, and GI discomfort or distress.

Gosh, anxiety symptoms from taking a new medication? Who'd a thunk?

Levity aside, obviously the Xanax withdrawal crisis experienced by Christopher is not so easy to explain or untangle - and of course I'm not trying to say that Xanax doesn't have a physiological effect, because I know that it does (and very useful it was, too, on a few single occasions - it was awesome for dental work before TMS skills helped me to control my dental fear with self talk).

But if I could lay a bet, @ChristopherJ34, I'm guessing that there was an enormous emotional component attached to your agreement to use the Xanax in the first place in an attempt to ease your suffering at that difficult time. It's going to be all mixed up with your perception of yourself as your beautiful and fearless life came crashing down around you, leaving you floundering in frightening uncertainty and horrifying self doubt.

You're gonna have to go there, I'm afraid - and that's where the vulnerability will be required. Because if you don't go there, you may be destined to remain a victim to the fear. The great news is that you're here, you're ready to do the work, you have a therapist to support you, and this community as well. Keep us posted!

There's a really great older thread featuring well-known forum member @Dorado, who will maybe see this flag and give us the location of the thread about medication withdrawal symptoms as a form of TMS (specifically mental health medication). It has helped a lot of people with this experience.
 
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