Neurological pain

[MrFreezeman]

Hello everyone,

for over a year now, I have been dealing with TMS/MBS/biopsychosocial pain model. I have had lower back pain for almost three years and neurological pain (electric shocks, tingling, sensory disturbances) in both legs below the knees for 1.5 years.

Like many others, I am constantly wavering between structural causes and TMS, or both. The doctors here in Germany who treat according to the biopsychosocial model always say that it is almost always a combination of all factors (so structural problems are never ruled out) - just as background information.

I have had MRIs that show a disc protrusion (to be neglected) and a more severe disc herniation (L5/S1), "compatible with a possible bilateral S1 root irritation" or "prolapse reaching up to the S1 nerve root".

I have already read Sarno's book, as well as those by Dr. Schubiner, Alan Gordon, Nicole Sachs, and numerous other resources, and done a lot of research. I am convinced that TMS exists, but in my case... What makes me suspicious is that even Dr. Schubiner writes again and again: "Exclusions (from TMS): if you have had an exam from a doctor which showed a neurological impairment, this is not an appropriate treatment." I believe that in the Boulder study, patients with neurological effects in their legs were excluded. So where is the limit here? What should be evaluated structurally and what should be considered TMS-related?

 

[miffybunny]

TMS can present in neurological symptoms just as easily as other symptoms (smooth muscle, striated muscle etc). The brain is the master controller of every system so why would nerve pain be any different ?? Whether it's migraines, trigeminal neuralgia, vertigo, visual issues, fibromyalgia, CRPS (which I recovered from and is the mother of all nerve pain lol!!). You need to consult with an MD in this field because until you get rid of this doubt, you will stay stuck. As far as the study you are referring to, they are most likely excluding people with paralysis or actual pathologies like ALS. Your doctors gave you a very sketchy theory....they used the word "possible" and are grasping at straws imo. Another important thing to understand, which is vastly misunderstood in the mainstream medical model, is that stress and emotions can be and almost always ARE the SOLE cause of chronic pain. This is such a massive blind spot and failure in medicine, the result of which is nothing short of ruinous for society.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

I'm with @miffybunny - I feel like that quote ("this is not an appropriate treatment") from Dr Schu is being taken out of context and/or misinterpreted by your fearful TMS brain, which will do anything it can to focus your thoughts on the negative.

When I was diagnosed with sudden-onset, mindless stress-induced RA in 2020, I consulted with Dr. David Schecter (well-known TMS doc who has a published workbook) who reviewed my medical records and said that I had to follow my rheumatologist's orders (take the RA medication or risk serious physical consequences). However he also said that there was no reason I couldn't ALSO work on achieving remission with my TMS knowledge and skills, because he's seen it happen.

And I am talking about positive blood tests with inflammatory markers that were well above the normal range when I was diagnosed. Three years later, after increasing exercise, decreasing sugar, being more mindful, and eliminating several sources of outside stress, I've had more than a year of quarterly C-Reactive Protein lab tests which are consistently at the bottom of the range, and last year I only had a few very short and very mild flares in the depths of winter (living in the upper-left-hand-corner of the US, it's f'ing DARK for three months) which might as well be TMS imitating the RA, because they don't last more than 24 hours once I become mindful and apply my techniques. I never missed a day of exercise or other activities because of them.

In another recent thread, a member reported recovering from a past case of dystonia, which is apparently a neurological condition with muscle spasms, which you might find interesting. I looked up dystonia on the Mayo Clinic website and found that like so many neuro conditions, it's a catch-all term for a huge list of possible symptoms, the cause is unknown, there is no treatment that will cure it, only some that will mitigate symptoms, and, most importantly for TMS work, that fatigue, stress, and anxiety make it worse.

There are MANY "real" physiological conditions (including all of the autoimmune ones like RA, a lot of heart diseases, and also conditions like asthma) that are made worse by stress - a fact that is widely accepted by the medical community. They just won't admit that stress could possibly cause these conditions, because they can't measure it. The research continues to find associations - but never convincing causation. (See Gabor Mate, MD for convincing evidence that the long-term stress of emotional repression does cause real physiological disease).

So here's the question you need to answer for yourself: What is the worst that can happen if you start to apply TMS knowledge and techniques for yourself, for the sole purpose of reducing your emotional stress?

Then ask yourself, what is the best that can happen?

Bottom line - there is absolutely no harm in doing this work even if it's in conjunction with a recommended medical treatment. And if the medical community doesn't have a recommended treatment, or if available treatment can only mitigate symptoms, or a treatment is optional because it has a historically poor chance of success (like most back surgeries) then just let go of your obsession with the physical, and do the emotional work - ignoring your fearful brain which will try to talk you out of it. Don't overthink it - just do it.

 

[MrFreezeman]

Thanks for your valueable thoughts and valid points. I have been doing "this work" since spring last year. At first, just reading and learning about TMS (beginning with Dr. Sarnos book and talking to a friend who experienced the same but already overcame the chronic part) already overnight took 50% of my pain away, which was a big trust-booster. But ever since, I'm stuck on a plateau. In the last 12 months I tried Alan Gordon's program, Schubiner's program (2-3/4 weeks), and have been doing psychoanalysis with a trusted therapist which already gave good insight and understanding about myself. Still, I'm not seeing any progress pain-wise. I had been taking pregabalin (lyrica) for some months and it lowered the neuropathic pain in my legs a bit (but not too much, so widthdrew). As most people here, of course I had already tried virtually every possible physical kind of therapy before, with absolutely no effect.

I know even Alan Gordon and Dr. Schubiner are telling that you don't need to be 100% convinced at first that you have TMS. Just do the work, and the more you see the results, the more you are going to be convinced. But, I've been doing the work, and only at the very beginning I quickly saw good results, but ever since, nothing more. So, I feel like it would be beneficial to kind of get confirmed by a professional that it's TMS, and nothing else. Otherwise this might already be the best I am able to get in terms of lowering the pain level. But, I'm in Germany. So, there's no MD in the TMS field.