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Myers-Briggs Personality Type

It's interesting you mention the Enneagram Porpoise, because someone else was sharing with me about it yesterday! I think the Enneagram is also another interesting tool for self-reflection and growth. Personally I identify with Type 2 and Type 4 on the Enneagram, and Type 2 is the "helper" - so it very much fits in with the people pleasing, goodist tendencies of people with TMS. I thought this was relevant:

"Perhaps the biggest obstacle facing Twos, Threes, and Fours in their inner work is having to face their underlying Center fear of worthlessness. Beneath the surface, all three types fear that they are without value in themselves, and so they must be or do something extraordinary in order to win love and acceptance from others. In the average to unhealthy Levels, Twos present a false image of being completely generous and unselfish and of not wanting any kind of pay-off for themselves, when in fact, they can have enormous expectations and unacknowledged emotional needs."

I like the idea of getting all the forum members to do the test, but how would that be possible? Is there a way to do a poll on the forum? I'm open to suggestions. :)
 
I can also relate to this element in the Type 4 Individualist description:

"We have named this type The Individualist because Fours maintain their identity by seeing themselves as fundamentally different from others. Fours feel that they are unlike other human beings, and consequently, that no one can understand them or love them adequately. They often see themselves as uniquely talented, possessing special, one-of-a-kind gifts, but also as uniquely disadvantaged or flawed. More than any other type, Fours are acutely aware of and focused on their personal differences and deficiencies."

Source: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/descript.asp#.VFLkPUugzFK
 
Hi there Laudisco! How interesting that you recently came across the Enneagram. I think it can be an incredibly useful tool for self-reflection, but, like everything else, it can be misconstrued and used to reinforce people’s self-image and opinions of others. So I think there has to be caution in advising people to use it. Identifying one's type or style can be a long process of self-discovery and unpeeling the layers (not unlike the process of journaling), because it addresses characteristics that are largely unconscious or semi-conscious. For this reason, I think Enneagram tests should be approached with caution - they can provide a guide but they can just as easily be quite misleading. I don't think they're very helpful in discovering your type - and in addition there are so many different tests out there - so I personally don't think getting forum members to take a test is the way to go. Having said that, I think the test you've used is one of the better ones out there.

In fact, each type manifests a fixation that can express itself as a TMS personality trait. Although there isn't a direct correlation, INFPs and INFJs most commonly tend to be Ones, Fours, Sixes and Nines, so these *might* be more common than other types. On the other hand, the person who is outwardly competitive, ambitious and driven is more likely to be a Three, a Seven or an Eight, and the ones most likely to be 'goodists' are Ones and Twos – but anyway, I think any MBTI type can have TMS, and it's equally possible to be any Enneagram type and have a 'TMS personality.’

The Enneagram types I can see most of in myself are Nine, Four and Six - again, it's necessary to get at the underlying unconscious 'fixations' and energy of the types rather than behaviours or the stereotypical expression of each type. It's also so much more complex than just 'being' one type. There are many Enneagram schools of thought, each with its own emphasis. Most claim that we have a dominant wing (the number on either side of the main type), so that for instance, a Four is likely to have strong Three or One tendencies. There are also arrows connecting types to other types, so that a Four, either in times of strong stress or strong psychological health, is influenced by both One and Two. (There are also theories that claim people have a Trifix or Tritype - three main types, but it's complicated and hard to summarise quickly).

Anyway, I'm so glad you're interested in the Enneagram too!

Porpoise


Laudisco said:
It's interesting you mention the Enneagram Porpoise, because someone else was sharing with me about it yesterday! I think the Enneagram is also another interesting tool for self-reflection and growth. Personally I identify with Type 2 and Type 4 on the Enneagram, and Type 2 is the "helper" - so it very much fits in with the people pleasing, goodist tendencies of people with TMS. I thought this was relevant:

"Perhaps the biggest obstacle facing Twos, Threes, and Fours in their inner work is having to face their underlying Center fear of worthlessness. Beneath the surface, all three types fear that they are without value in themselves, and so they must be or do something extraordinary in order to win love and acceptance from others. In the average to unhealthy Levels, Twos present a false image of being completely generous and unselfish and of not wanting any kind of pay-off for themselves, when in fact, they can have enormous expectations and unacknowledged emotional needs."

I like the idea of getting all the forum members to do the test, but how would that be possible? Is there a way to do a poll on the forum? I'm open to suggestions. :)
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Hi Porpoise,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I watched a video on YouTube regarding Myers Briggs and the Enneagram, and the guy being interviewed explained that the Enneagram is best used as a tool for self-reflection. He explained that it can take quite a while to really uncover your true Enneagram type, unlike other personality tests which are primarily based on a questionnaire.

I think this makes sense as the Enneagram has a great deal to do with roles and perceived identity, rather than specific cognitive functions. In my opinion the Enneagram is more subjective, yet it can be very insightful and a useful tool for understanding our strengths, weaknesses and natural tendencies. At different seasons of my life I have identified with Type 2 "The Helper", Type 4 "The Individualist" and Type 7 "The Enthusiast".

I have also been learning about the neuroscience of personality, based on findings by Dario Nardi. I would highly recommend looking into his work - I found his explanation of the ENTP/ENFP brain patterns fascinating and helpful. This lecture it excellent… might seem a bit long but it's well worth your time! :)

 
Laudisco said:
Hi Porpoise,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I watched a video on YouTube regarding Myers Briggs and the Enneagram, and the guy being interviewed explained that the Enneagram is best used as a tool for self-reflection. He explained that it can take quite a while to really uncover your true Enneagram type, unlike other personality tests which are primarily based on a questionnaire.

I think this makes sense as the Enneagram has a great deal to do with roles and perceived identity, rather than specific cognitive functions. In my opinion the Enneagram is more subjective, yet it can be very insightful and a useful tool for understanding our strengths, weaknesses and natural tendencies. At different seasons of my life I have identified with Type 2 "The Helper", Type 4 "The Individualist" and Type 7 "The Enthusiast".

I have also been learning about the neuroscience of personality, based on findings by Dario Nardi. I would highly recommend looking into his work - I found his explanation of the ENTP/ENFP brain patterns fascinating and helpful. This lecture it excellent… might seem a bit long but it's well worth your time! :)

Click to expand...

Hi Laudisco,

Thanks for posting the link to this lecture. I haven't watched it all yet, but it looks like Nardi is doing some important work on personality and I'm interested to find out more - the neuroscience of personality sounds incredibly interesting.

I agree with what you say about the differences between the MBTI and the Enneagram. I think the Enneagram is about our unconscious patterns of thinking and feeling - our unconscious beliefs about ourselves and the world, similar to what we discover about ourselves when we journal - while the MBTI provides information about our cognitive processes and preferences. I think they're both interesting in different ways.

The MBTI is really a later extrapolation of Jung's typology, which was based on his ideas about the unconscious. For instance, the inferior function - the one we use the least - more or less corresponds with what Jung called the shadow, the part of ourselves we reject and avoid. There are some Jungians who still use Jung's original typology in this way (it's much more complex than the vague impression I'm giving). So originally, Jung's typology was more about unconscious processes. Seen from this point of view, the MBTI does seem somewhat dumbed-down and diluted, and it's easily misused as a kind of parlour game of categorising people - but then, everything can be misused. I still find it fascinating.

Would you possibly have the link for the You Tube video on the MBTI and the Enneagram? I'm really interested in hearing its take on the two approaches.

Porpoise
 
Hi Porpoise,

Thanks for sharing, yes I am aware that MBTI is based on Jung's work. I don't agree that the MBTI is necessarily "dumbed down and diluted," although some may view it that way. It may have a different focus compared to Jung's original typology, yet it doesn't mean it is inferior or useless.

Having said that, Myers Briggs can be misused or misunderstood. And perhaps Jung's original work about the subconscious and the "shadow" would actually be more useful for people suffering with TMS. I have certainly found it interesting and sometimes quite insightful to pay attention to my dreams, as they help me understand my subconscious mind without the filters and barriers we normally have.

Are there any books or resources about Jungian typology which you would recommend?

Dr Mike has actually done more than one interview/video about MBTI and the Enneagram, but this one is probably the most in-depth:

 
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I'm coming in late to this conversation because I haven't visited the forum for several months.

I took the test on paper in 1999 and again online about ten years later. Both times I came up INFP. I seem to fit the description given here http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFP.html fairly well, but with one or two exceptions. For example, it says "INFPs do not like to deal with hard facts and logic." That's not me at all! I'm a stickler for facts and logic!

One aspect of INFPs though really hits home: "INFPs are flexible and laid-back, until one of their values is violated." The paperwork that came with my 1999 test put it in a slightly different way, saying that we go with the flow unless our sense of fairness is violated, at which point we will vigorously defend ourselves or others. (This contradicts somewhat the statement that INFPs prefer to avoid conflict.)

This "go with the flow" attitude tend to make others believe we'll accept anything that comes along, but when we suddenly defend against an unfairness we shock those people and they say "That's not like you, what happened???" This in turn tends to create new forms of conflict.

And since INFP's are the rarest personality type we tend to feel different. We may also feel pressure to conform to behaviors others consider more "normal." I think perhaps that pressure is a significant factor in my TMS.
 
And since INFP's are the rarest personality type we tend to feel different. We may also feel pressure to conform to behaviors others consider more "normal." I think perhaps that pressure is a significant factor in my TMS.
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Thanks for sharing about this James! As an ENFP I can also relate to feeling different and feeling pressured to conform to the rest of society. In hindsight I realised I've had a lot of teasing at school and work for being 'weird' and this has added to my stresses.
 
I would also add that in my experience, INFPs do tend to avoid conflict unless it is something really significant to them. I also do this - I tend not to confront something unless one of my core values is violated… then I can be really angry or upset!
 
Okay, I've done a little tally of the Myers-Briggs types we have so far:

ENFP: 1

INFP: 7

INTP: 2

INFJ: 2

INTJ: 1

It makes me wonder if there is a correlation between INFPs and TMS, since there are so many of them here.
 
Laudisco said:
Hi Porpoise,

Thanks for sharing, yes I am aware that MBTI is based on Jung's work. I don't agree that the MBTI is necessarily "dumbed down and diluted," although some may view it that way. It may have a different focus compared to Jung's original typology, yet it doesn't mean it is inferior or useless.

Having said that, Myers Briggs can be misused or misunderstood. And perhaps Jung's original work about the subconscious and the "shadow" would actually be more useful for people suffering with TMS. I have certainly found it interesting and sometimes quite insightful to pay attention to my dreams, as they help me understand my subconscious mind without the filters and barriers we normally have.

Are there any books or resources about Jungian typology which you would recommend?

Dr Mike has actually done more than one interview/video about MBTI and the Enneagram, but this one is probably the most in-depth:

Click to expand...
Hi Laudisco,

Thank you for sharing, and for the video on Dr Mike!

I agree with what you say about the MBTI - that it's valuable and fascinating despite being different from Jung's original typology. I do see it misused at times but I do agree with you that this doesn't take away its value.

I think paying attention to dreams would be really helpful for people with TMS. I write them down whenever I remember them. Sometimes I jot down any images or understandings that come to me when I think about them, but I think that just the act of writing them down gives a message to the unconscious that you're taking it into account and are working with it. Sometimes I do something called Active Imagination, where you dialogue with something in a dream or free-write about it - a kind of journalling, I guess, but it was developed by Jung. I think that working with the shadow, as well as other contents of the unconscious, is another way of seeing what we do when we journal. I've often felt surprised that Dr Sarno didn't mention Jung in his books, but I guess it could be because of the Freud-Jung rift, which might possibly have led Sarno to overlook or underestimate Jung.

Some resources I know of about Jungian typology or its interface with the MBTI: John Beebe, a Jungian analyst: http://www.innerexplorations.com/catpsy/a.htm
A short history of type: http://www.petergeyer.com.au/library/Developing-type-history-Jung-today.pdf
A Jungian analyst called Joseph Wheelwright had a special interest in Jungian typology and I'm sure I've read a detailed account of how he sees the various functions operating in the unconscious, but I can't find it!
Two alternative Jungian type tests that have been developed: Gray-Wheelwright Test and Singer-Loomis Type Deployment Inventory (SL-TDI). (I haven't taken either of them - I don't think they're widely available.)
Lenore Thomson straddles Jungian typology and the MBTI- her book is Personality Type: An Owner's Manual, and here's a long interview of her http://www.personalitypathways.com/thomson/ - she's very interesting and insightful.
Another author who straddles both areas is Naomi Quenk, who'd done a lot of work on the inferior function or shadow: Beside Ourselves: Our Hidden Personality in Everyday Life, and In the Grip: Understanding Type, Stress and the Inferior Function.
 
Laudisco said:
Okay, I've done a little tally of the Myers-Briggs types we have so far:

ENFP: 1

INFP: 7

INTP: 2

INFJ: 2

INTJ: 1

It makes me wonder if there is a correlation between INFPs and TMS, since there are so many of them here.
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Hi Laudisco, Steve Ozanich talks about INFPs a little in his book.
 
Thanks for sharing Porpoise! Yes, I agree that remembering and writing down my dreams can often be helpful and insightful.

Ermelin, it's nice to see an ENFJ here! I thought I was the only extrovert around here… ;)
 
I found this article about personality and being "too sensitive" was really enlightening for me. There are also some very interesting comments after the article, regarding how emotional pain is felt in the body.

Article: You're "too" sensitive! by Elizabeth Esther

Here are some comments (following the article) which stood out to me as well:

Yes!! YES! I "feel" the pressure very physically as well. Honestly, the first time a boy broke my heart I swore I would never love again because the pain of it was SO intense I thought I would die--and I mean physical pain In.my.heart. I truly do believe it's possible to die of a broken heart.
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I am an INFP and I totally relate. I did not understand until I spoke with a therapist several years ago that others did not "feel" angst as physcially as I do. Because I often wondered how some people could knowingly be so cold or rude or dismissive without feeling that pressure building up from deep within that takes hold of my chest and makes me feel frozen. But then I realized that not everyone feels angst the same way. I wouldn't trade who I am, though, for being less feeling. For all of the vulnerability it opens me up to, it also makes me who I am and provides me with insight and an intuitiveness about the world around me that I cherish.
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this resonates with me a lot. i'm in INFP and i feel everything physically. almost every emotion brings with it an actual reaction in my body, which i guess is why i feel my emotions so strongly. i don't think i've ever heard anyone else explain it this way, too. recognizing this will definitely help me process emotions in the future.
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Hi - an ISFJ here, and interestingly, in the uncannily accurate description of a lot of the traits of my personality, I am also described as being prone to psychosomatic illnesses.
 
Thanks for sharing! Yes, ISFJs are often very kind, servant-hearted and giving people - who also struggle with confrontation. My ISFJ sister in law had some IBS symptoms a few months ago, which I suspect were a result of stress/TMS.
 
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