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Morning Pain & Symptoms

shadowson

shadowson

Peer Supporter
Please can someone offer help with the morning pain / symptoms I get.

everyday I wake up feeling absolutely exhausted and the pain in my sides / mid back is back up to the top of the scale.

generally as the day goes on it reduces, but never goes away. Only to start again once I wake up the next day.

I’ve had all the scans which show no signs of concern - they even said I have a “perfect” spine scan

I’m 37

I have a handful of other symptoms that go back 20 years including shin splints and shoulder instability / weakness / pain

this morning pain is the worst one though. I wake up feeling like I’ve done 12 rounds. Kicked in the sides and had my neck squeezed all night. Then there’s the headaches and fatigue that come hand in hand with the pain.

im completely exhausted and fed up. I’m very familiar with TMS and mindbody. I’ve seen a few coaches. Nobody seems to really know how to stop symptoms being triggered during sleep.

the longer I stay in bed. The worse I feel. I had a flu recently and the back pain was worse than the flu because I couldn’t get out of bed.

any advice on what to do about this? I’ve thought about trying to get up at 5am and therefore only have 5 or 6 hours sleep. But I keep failing to get up when the alarm goes off because of how shit I feel when I wake.

also to clarify this back pain never actually goes away, it’s just worst and triggered in the morning
It hurts all day, especially with sitting

please help…
 
Hi shadow! Haven’t seen you in a while. Sorry you’re having some troubles and feeling bad lately. Most of my worst symptoms happen at night —they always have. I believe personally it’s because the subconscious has more free rein when my conscious mind is asleep. This is frustrating because there’s really no control for me at all. It just happens. BUT—-As I get better, it gets less and less. And if I go through a hard spell, a stressful time— it will get worse again. So the trick overall is to keep journaling to discover what’s making you angry. Something new has probably triggered this.

Do you journal? Just sit down with some paper and let anything come. You don’t have to dig deep. Just let thoughts flow. Write for at least 20 minutes every day. Then calm yourself for 10 minutes afterwards with meditation or something soothing.

You just have to keep working your healing process and stop being mad that it’s happening at night. It’s just when it happens for you. Same for me.

Have you read the book by Claire Weekes, Hope and Help for your Nerves? It’s really short and not hard to read. It explains so clearly how adrenaline can cause a lot of these things to happen. Especially if you have a LOT of adrenaline, which it sounds like you probably have had for a long time. So have I. You’ll need to heal your nervous system, which is sensitized. When your nervous system calms down, your symptoms will calm down too.

Just get back to basics. Read Sarno books every day. If you haven’t yet, do the structured educational program on this website. It takes 42 days. People have really good things happen when they do that.

Don’t give up! As long as you keep trying, you’ll get there. Your severe symptoms will slowly fade away, and they will stop bothering you at night. Mine have subsided probably 70% at night over the past year —unless I’m having a flare. One night this week I had terrible symptoms. I couldn’t sleep all night. The next day, I journaled and discovered something really big that was bothering me. I talked to the person that it involved. It was a pretty big deal— the discussion I had with this person. It was actually a big fight. I was mad about something and I finally told the person. The next night, I had no symptoms and I slept like a baby. I’m just saying… Look into your life. Maybe something new is bothering you. I hope you feel better soon!
 
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My pain was the worst in the morning and at night. I'm actually glad you said you've had shin splints for 20 years. Now I'm not afraid of getting shin splints. Unfortunately it can take a really long time to get better which was my case and I felt like I was run over by a truck for a number of years. There's nothing specific I ever found to treating TMS at morning/night vs treating it normally. I used to journal and try to get inside my feelings as soon as I woke up because I would have residual fear from nightmares still.
 
Last edited:
JanAtheCPA said:
@shadowson, I highly recommend that you read @JohnDellatto's story here:https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/pain-free-from-hypermobile-ctd-fibro-dx-20-years-of-pain.29325/ (Pain free from hypermobile CTD/fibro dx, 20 years of pain)

It's really long! I was mesmerized, and read the everyone word. Perhaps start with just this short response, which is a good explanation for why his story is so long. You have to read the whole thing so give yourself some time. It's worth it.
Click to expand...
Lol, I'm glad you enjoyed it that much.
 
Diana-M said:
Hi shadow! Haven’t seen you in a while. Sorry you’re having some troubles and feeling bad lately. Most of my worst symptoms happen at night —they always have. I believe personally it’s because the subconscious has more free rein when my conscious mind is asleep. This is frustrating because there’s really no control for me at all. It just happens. BUT—-As I get better, it gets less and less. And if I go through a hard spell, a stressful time— it will get worse again. So the trick overall is to keep journaling to discover what’s making you angry. Something new has probably triggered this.

Do you journal? Just sit down with some paper and let anything come. You don’t have to dig deep. Just let thoughts flow. Write for at least 20 minutes every day. Then calm yourself for 10 minutes afterwards with meditation or something soothing.

You just have to keep working your healing process and stop being mad that it’s happening at night. It’s just when it happens for you. Same for me.

Have you read the book by Claire Weekes, Hope and Help for your Nerves? It’s really short and not hard to read. It explains so clearly how adrenaline can cause a lot of these things to happen. Especially if you have a LOT of adrenaline, which it sounds like you probably have had for a long time. So have I. You’ll need to heal your nervous system, which is sensitized. When your nervous system calms down, your symptoms will calm down too.

Just get back to basics. Read Sarno books every day. If you haven’t yet, do the structured educational program on this website. It takes 42 days. People have really good things happen when they do that.

Don’t give up! As long as you keep trying, you’ll get there. Your severe symptoms will slowly fade away, and they will stop bothering you at night. Mine have subsided probably 70% at night over the past year —unless I’m having a flare. One night this week I had terrible symptoms. I couldn’t sleep all night. The next day, I journaled and discovered something really big that was bothering me. I talked to the person that it involved. It was a pretty big deal— the discussion I had with this person. It was actually a big fight. I was mad about something and I finally told the person. The next night, I had no symptoms and I slept like a baby. I’m just saying… Look into your life. Maybe something new is bothering you. I hope you feel better soon!
Click to expand...
 
Diana-M said:
Hi shadow! Haven’t seen you in a while. Sorry you’re having some troubles and feeling bad lately. Most of my worst symptoms happen at night —they always have. I believe personally it’s because the subconscious has more free rein when my conscious mind is asleep. This is frustrating because there’s really no control for me at all. It just happens. BUT—-As I get better, it gets less and less. And if I go through a hard spell, a stressful time— it will get worse again. So the trick overall is to keep journaling to discover what’s making you angry. Something new has probably triggered this.

Do you journal? Just sit down with some paper and let anything come. You don’t have to dig deep. Just let thoughts flow. Write for at least 20 minutes every day. Then calm yourself for 10 minutes afterwards with meditation or something soothing.

You just have to keep working your healing process and stop being mad that it’s happening at night. It’s just when it happens for you. Same for me.

Have you read the book by Claire Weekes, Hope and Help for your Nerves? It’s really short and not hard to read. It explains so clearly how adrenaline can cause a lot of these things to happen. Especially if you have a LOT of adrenaline, which it sounds like you probably have had for a long time. So have I. You’ll need to heal your nervous system, which is sensitized. When your nervous system calms down, your symptoms will calm down too.

Just get back to basics. Read Sarno books every day. If you haven’t yet, do the structured educational program on this website. It takes 42 days. People have really good things happen when they do that.

Don’t give up! As long as you keep trying, you’ll get there. Your severe symptoms will slowly fade away, and they will stop bothering you at night. Mine have subsided probably 70% at night over the past year —unless I’m having a flare. One night this week I had terrible symptoms. I couldn’t sleep all night. The next day, I journaled and discovered something really big that was bothering me. I talked to the person that it involved. It was a pretty big deal— the discussion I had with this person. It was actually a big fight. I was mad about something and I finally told the person. The next night, I had no symptoms and I slept like a baby. I’m just saying… Look into your life. Maybe something new is bothering you. I hope you feel better soon!
Click to expand...

Hi Diana

Good to speak to you again. Can I start by saying how kind of you it is to take time to respond and offer help and support. Thank you. Reading the comments on this post helped me greatly today and yesterday…

Yes I believe it’s because my subconscious is running the show while I’m asleep too. Problem is it feels impossible to turn off symptoms triggered during my sleep… but you’re right about my nervous system, I’ve been mega anxious, stressed and on edge for many many years now.

I have an enormous amount of guilt, anxiety and even shame about doing “the work” - for example I can’t spend any more money on coaches because my wife will just say I’ve spent it before and it didn’t work. And disappearing for 30 mins to meditate or breathwork, or even have a nap never happens because we’ve got 2 children. I’ve no chance of getting away with that.

I’ve tried journaling before, maybe it’s worth another go. It just feels like a chore. I do this thing where I talk out loud to the people I’m angry at while I’m driving. I’ll have full blown arguments with my dad while I’m driving to work without him even being there.

I’ve not just got a reservoir of rage, I’ve got an ocean… but what’s weird is I’m well aware of how angry I am.

Thanks for the Claire Weekes suggestion. I’ve not actually heard of that but I’m going to give it a go.

maybe I should try the SEP again too. I’ve only ever managed to get 3 days in I think. I find it impossible to complete or stick to anything. They say I have adhd but I’m not buying it.

Glad to hear you’re getting 70% relief and journaling is helping you.

I kind of know everything that’s bothering me… there’s no correlation between daily events and flare ups for me either. It’s pretty much always the same no matter how my day goes. Yesterday was an especially bad day but today I woke up slightly better than normal.

I’ve been doing hemi sync meditation and the gateway tapes, to try and have outer body experiences. I want to leave my body and look at myself to almost see that physical body is just a vessel and I don’t need all this pain and the feeling of carrying a lead weight

thanks again
 
JohnDellatto said:
My pain was the worst in the morning and at night. I'm actually glad you said you've had shin splints for 20 years. Now I'm not afraid of getting shin splints. Unfortunately it can take a really long time to get better which was my case and I felt like I was run over by a truck for a number of years. There's nothing specific I ever found to treating TMS at morning/night vs treating it normally. I used to journal and try to get inside my feelings as soon as I woke up because I would have residual fear from nightmares still.
Click to expand...
Thanks John. Yeah the shin splints has never gone away. I play a bit of football for an hour once a week (soccer) but I couldn’t run anymore than that, the shins won’t allow. Lower leg pain and aching hips were my first intro to chronic pain back when I was a teenager
Glad journaling is helping you.. I personally find it to a chore so never do it but maybe I should
 
JanAtheCPA said:
@shadowson, I highly recommend that you read @JohnDellatto's story here:https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/pain-free-from-hypermobile-ctd-fibro-dx-20-years-of-pain.29325/ (Pain free from hypermobile CTD/fibro dx, 20 years of pain)

It's really long! I was mesmerized, and read every word. Perhaps start with just this short response, which is a good explanation for why his story is so long. You have to read the whole thing so give yourself some time. It's worth it.
Click to expand...
Jan The CPA - you’re a true legend for all the support you offer on here. Thanks so much. I’m gonna start coming in here more because I need people just to talk to. It’s incredibly lonely being in chronic pain and fatigue…

thanks, I’ll give this a read - I see it mentions hypermobility, in remember when that was the latest thing I had wrong with me
 
Hi, @shadowson !

Of course, I’m happy to answer anybody on this forum. This forum is my lifeline! I’ve come on here every single day since over a year ago. I honestly don’t think I would get better without it.

As far as journaling goes, it’s one of those things you have to make routine. I think audio journaling works just as well. You can just turn on your phone and record it and then delete it. The idea is that you’re telling your brain you’re dumping all this stuff and separating out from your thoughts. I didn’t really like it at first— but when I took the pressure off and I didn’t feel like I had to dig for anger and stuff, that’s when it got easier for me. And the irony is, I do write about what I’m angry about! But at least I don’t feel like I have to.

My night pain is 70% better. But my overall pain isn’t. But, it is nice to see some movement in the right direction. in the beginning I would be so panic-stricken to wake up and have pain in the night. Now a lot of times I can actually sleep through it. I’ll wake up, feel the pain and then just go back to sleep. If it’s at all possible, just try to stop caring; the more you care the more it keeps going.

I can sense from you that you feel frustrated and trapped because you don’t have much free time or energy to work on your healing. That’s just part of the TMS trap. Your brain wants you to believe that your life is hopeless: but that’s a lie. The best thing you can do for yourself is to try to pick one little thing and dedicate yourself to it and as you do that, you will get stronger and stronger— and you’ll start to believe that you deserve to get well no matter what it takes.

Claire Weekes is one of the hugest pieces to this puzzle. Trust me. I didn’t believe it at first when people told me to read her books. But I finally did and they have made all the difference. TMS is anxiety. Most of us have had anxiety since we were children. That’s a long time!

Claire says it doesn’t matter how long you’ve had anxiety. You can always get rid of it.

I’ll be right here cheering for you, brother!
 
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shadowson said:
but what’s weird is I’m well aware of how angry I am.
Click to expand...
You’re well aware of the anger you have in your conscious brain— But not your subconscious brain. Dr. Sarno says we can never know what our subconscious brain is mad about. But you can convince your subconscious brain that you Don’t need TMS anymore. That’s the ultimate goal and that’s what journaling helps to do. It tells your subconscious brain that you’re not going to focus on the pain, you’re going to focus on the psychological issues that it’s trying to hide from you. And remember— Your subconscious brain is a five-year-old. @Baseball65 has taught me that if you just keep journaling, you might accidentally stumble upon what your subconscious is mad about and then it will let go of the pain. So keep journaling!
 
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shadowson said:
I do this thing where I talk out loud to the people I’m angry at while I’m driving. I’ll have full blown arguments with my dad while I’m driving to work without him even being there.
Click to expand...
@Diana-M has a lot of important things to say about the self-examination process, which for most of us is greatly facilitated by writing our shit down. She mentions @Baseball65, who will always remind us that the things or people we consciously think are angering us are not where the true rage comes from - because the true rage is being skillfully repressed by our TMS brains.

Until you can be honest and vulnerable enough to really let THAT shit come into your consciousness, your brain will continue to keep it repressed by distracting you with symptoms and with shallow everyday anger. Because that is its job, and it's really good at it!

One of the key things is this:
Diana-M said:
Your subconscious brain is a five-year-old.
Click to expand...
One of the requirements for being vulnerable is to give your inner 5-year-old permission to throw a screaming tantrum about the things that you really resent about your life, your circumstances, and your relationships - present and past. Your father may indeed be a legitimate target of your anger, but you're more likely to get to the heart of your issues if you "tell" him what 5-year-old you thinks of him as a father. You're also going to have to get down and dirty about how 5-year-old you really feels about your marital and parental relationships and responsibilities.

Did you ever hear Nicole Sachs describe the epiphany she had while journaling - the incident that resulted in her coming up with the term JournalSpeak? The way she describes it, it's kind of like her brain finally gave up the fight and said "Fuck it, just write whatever" and she wrote down "I hate being a mother". She was shocked - until she realized she was also relieved to be able to "speak" it consciously, and to know that it wasn't really true even if sometimes it felt true. More importantly, she was willing to forgive herself for having that thought, which was the beginning of her freedom and her recovery.

I would caution you, however, not to practice this kind of self-engagement while driving, because it could get kind of intense!

PS, thank you for the kind words ;)
 
@shadowson
You mention difficulty with SEP and committing to journaling.. this is a very common TMS reaction to doing the work.
I at the start, I would sit to journal and I’d get suddenly itchy or need a sweater, cough uncontrollably.. it was all a brain rouse and I forced myself to sit for 20 minutes writing: I have nothing to write (a suggestion I read for this situation). It took a few weeks until my brain was ok with me being vulnerable then the writing really began. Since you are able to “talk” out your conscious anger “at” someone, you might do well writing unsent letters style of journaling. The SEP takes you through that.
As for the SEP, you can break the days down into smaller bits. I often did that when concentration or time was premium.
I found I had to force myself to do the work until I didn’t.. one day it got easier. It’s hard, but you take what you learn with you into everyday life. That’s when it gets better.
 
shadowson said:
I can’t spend any more money on coaches because my wife will just say I’ve spent it before and it didn’t work.
Click to expand...
She may be right. I have never seen a coach in 25+ years and I got over TMS. I too didn't have enough money (thank you God). I do have a lot of friends who have gotten better using Sarno and we have chats and support and challenge each other. That is awesome and really helpful....and doesn't cost any money
shadowson said:
back pain never actually goes away, it’s just worst and triggered in the morning
Click to expand...
Yep. That was what I had. I also was a Dad in a very busy household with a lot of balls in the air constantly. Still got better.
shadowson said:
I’m well aware of how angry I am.
Click to expand...
I have been 'Angry' my whole life...since my Dad and Nanny died when I was 5. Left me with a miserable jet setting Mommy and siblings who were all vicious dope fiends. I ended up becoming one myself and ended up in jail, homes and detox....commiting crimes (some violent) to fund my habit.....and I STILL to this day have NO clue how much anger is down there because it is repressed.
I can only speculate. The best metaphor I have ever heard is Socrates' "Shadows on the cave walls"
shadowson said:
there’s no correlation between daily events and flare ups
Click to expand...
Yep. Once this syndrome is going full speed, it is a Juke Ball of Conditioning , triggers, and perceptible REAL new anger generators. This program is a deconvolution. Piece by piece your gonna win back little parts of your life...sometimes there is Huge Normandy invasions, and sometimes you go Island hopping, but it's a ground game...the Ground is your life.
shadowson said:
Glad journaling is helping you.. I personally find it to a chore so never do it but maybe I should
Click to expand...
I have never 'journaled'... I read the text of the books circularly, have a scratch pad nearby (or scribble in the margins) I make lists of everything in my life that is or WAS a rage maker. WHY did it make me mad? What did that effect in me?

I actually use the 4th step inventory template from the 12 step program. The Most important part is how I responded to all of those rage makers when they happened. Long before I was a middle class dad struggling check to check, I had all sorts of stuff that just sat there and percolated. When I finally had a NEED for it to be repressed (being a good citizen, Dad, husband) it broke out into TMS. As soon as the Shadow on the cave wall started reflecting a little reality to me, the symptoms stopped. I didn't have to reach Nirvana or enlightenment,,,.just understand a little better than I did previously.
 
It is very hard for any parent with younger children to do the work. That 30-minute quiet time each day just seems impossible on the daily grinding of nuclear families in modern USA, especially for those who couldn't say no to kids, spouse, bosses, coworkers, other family members' requests/demands/etc. Each one request looks so little, innocent or reasonable that may just take a few minutes or not much effort to take care of, but once one lets them come in, it seems endless, right? Then your anger/frustration/anxiety builds up and would feel like at the verge of explosion much of the day. Since we are conditioned to be civilized and nice, especially around others, the brain works so hard to suppress or repress the rage so pain or whatever symptoms kick in. It may be especially noticeable in the morning, because that is the beginning of the day and there would be a tsunami of new requests/demands you need to meet and whatever leftover from previous days, and one may just want to scream "Fuxx off and leave me alone!!!".

Also when one actually suddenly gets extra 15, 20 or even 30 minutes that could be used for the inner work (journaling, reading Dr. Sarno's books, etc.), the "ADHD" would likely kick in (from my own experience), i.e. hey maybe I should check out the forums and see what others have to say, or what is the score of that hocky game again I didn't get to watch, or somehow this news just popped out that the Pope died today and let me see what happens, or whatever social media/news/games/you name it, or maybe there are so many suggestions of what one should do and what one should read and one can't even decide where to start, then the time passes, and suddenly the kids yell mommy/daddy, and the time is gone and this would repeat for days for a lot of people I bet. The brain tries to avoid doing the inner work (described in Nicole Sach's new book Mind Over Body), and the algorithms these days work perfectly to assist the brains in such avoidance. Do people know that big techs actually hire psychologists to develop these products and algorithms?

Baseball65 is right that TMS coaches are not required. The most difficult thing is to make up the mind and do the work and stick with it. Maybe keep things simple, start with Dr. Sarno's first book "healing back pain" and Nicole Sach's "Mind Over Body" with the 28-day journal speak program? It would also help if your spouse could do the inner work for herself too, even if she has no pain or other noticeable symptoms. The kids could sense the family dynamics and the adults' anxiety, rage, pain, resentment, etc., no matter how hard they try to suppress or repress it, the kids would know it unconsciously and they may even act out more to feel safer which makes adults' life even harder. So, it is no guilt to spend 30 minutes for yourself. It is better for you and people around you. Maybe start with having long bathroom breaks at night without internet, that is my safety space at home, lol.




shadowson said:
Hi Diana

Good to speak to you again. Can I start by saying how kind of you it is to take time to respond and offer help and support. Thank you. Reading the comments on this post helped me greatly today and yesterday…

Yes I believe it’s because my subconscious is running the show while I’m asleep too. Problem is it feels impossible to turn off symptoms triggered during my sleep… but you’re right about my nervous system, I’ve been mega anxious, stressed and on edge for many many years now.

I have an enormous amount of guilt, anxiety and even shame about doing “the work” - for example I can’t spend any more money on coaches because my wife will just say I’ve spent it before and it didn’t work. And disappearing for 30 mins to meditate or breathwork, or even have a nap never happens because we’ve got 2 children. I’ve no chance of getting away with that.

I’ve tried journaling before, maybe it’s worth another go. It just feels like a chore. I do this thing where I talk out loud to the people I’m angry at while I’m driving. I’ll have full blown arguments with my dad while I’m driving to work without him even being there.

I’ve not just got a reservoir of rage, I’ve got an ocean… but what’s weird is I’m well aware of how angry I am.

Thanks for the Claire Weekes suggestion. I’ve not actually heard of that but I’m going to give it a go.

maybe I should try the SEP again too. I’ve only ever managed to get 3 days in I think. I find it impossible to complete or stick to anything. They say I have adhd but I’m not buying it.

Glad to hear you’re getting 70% relief and journaling is helping you.

I kind of know everything that’s bothering me… there’s no correlation between daily events and flare ups for me either. It’s pretty much always the same no matter how my day goes. Yesterday was an especially bad day but today I woke up slightly better than normal.

I’ve been doing hemi sync meditation and the gateway tapes, to try and have outer body experiences. I want to leave my body and look at myself to almost see that physical body is just a vessel and I don’t need all this pain and the feeling of carrying a lead weight

thanks again
Click to expand...
 
I bounced this thread up and then I realized that I should probably just start a new thread so I cut out my comments and started a new thread. Please see that.
 
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