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Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by TG957, Dec 9, 2022.

  1. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

  2. Baseball65

    Baseball65 Beloved Grand Eagle

    "A chronic illness that appeared to be triggered by viral infection could just as easily have been triggered by the trauma of the pandemic itself."

    Yep. That was about how I felt when I heard about Long Covid. People were losing their hair Before they got covid, from the hysteria..constant barrage of scary info. I had a few friends literally have mental 'breaks' and many more right at the brink.

    I noticed most of the 'Long Covid' symptoms sounded a lot like us....and my 'covid' obsessed friends were never assuaged..even when they finally got covid and had the best resistance possible they were mentally prepared to keep the insanity going.. "Yeah.. But what if I get LONG covid"

    the distraction is complete. Just like 'Physicophobia" is as good as pain to keep you distracted.
  3. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Wow, T this is a fascinating article! So many different aspects covered.

    Among them (the underline is mine) :

    Finally, an NIH-sponsored longitudinal study on long Covid—the most thorough and detailed analysis of the condition yet produced—found no tissue damage in long Covid patients, no evidence of viral persistence, and no abnormalities in any organ function relative to controls. “We are finding little to no abnormalities,” lead author Dr. Michael Sneller told NPR before the study’s publication. “Echocardiogram, pulmonary function tests, X-rays, brain MRIs. You name it. Laboratory markers of organ dysfunction. We’re not seeing any of that … and precious little evidence of immune activation.… I’m running out of tests to do, basically.” One association his final paper did find, however, was an association between long Covid and anxiety disorder.
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  4. Baseball65

    Baseball65 Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is why a peer driven idea (forum/group) is so much better than a doctor/patient relationship. "Victim blaming" is really crappy, BUT it's hard to talk about something psychosomatic without discussing the role of our own personality in the problem. Sarno's critics brought it up all of the time.

    I always remember my mother-in-law telling me "Some men's back pain is just them trying to get out of the responsibility and pressure of being a man and father". You could have cooked an egg on my head!! Later, when I got better and explained TMS theory to her, she said "Yeah...that's what I meant"

    She was actually a very compassionate beautiful person and an RN, and might have really been saying that BUT the presentation was less than ....uhh...digestible? LOL

    When identifying with other 'sufferers' we are far less likely to feel incriminated.
    Cap'n Spanky, TG957 and JanAtheCPA like this.
  5. Enrique

    Enrique Well known member

    When I first heard of long covid it sounded like TMS to me. Then I saw one TMS coach do an interview of a long covid recovery via TMS methods, and I became convinced of the true cause. Thanks for posting the article
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  6. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    And here is another suspect: stiff person syndrome. You should be able to read the article even though it is behind the pay wall.
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  7. Baseball65

    Baseball65 Beloved Grand Eagle

    @TG957 I read the 'short' version of Ms. Dion's story the other day and thought 'TMS'... I know she lost the love of her life in the last few years and They were really close,even for a married couple. i wonder how much that had to do with her symptoms? Before that she was a work-aholic wonder woman!!
    TG957 likes this.
  8. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yep, agreed 100%. The only question mark is that they found some genetic connection, but knowing how coincidental things can be easily proclaimed the ultimate cause by our scientific community, I still put my money on TMS. I am on the road for the next few days, but when I get home I will post my thoughts on the subject in response to all the posters- great discussion!
    Baseball65 likes this.
  9. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    "They" keep thinking they're going to find a genetic component to RA. My theory is that RA is "inherited" the same way that anxiety and TMS are "inherited", because (as TG knows I've said numerous times here) I believe that my sudden- and late-in-life-onset RA was induced entirely by extreme stress in 2020, on top of the lifelong anxiety that had brought my TMS symptoms to a crisis back in 2011. There is NO history of any autoimmune conditions on either side of my family (other than some osteo-a), and I had a number of female relatives on both sides who lived very long active lives, well into and past their 80s. And I do blame my mother (lovingly) for "giving" me anxiety while I was still in utero!
  10. mbo

    mbo Well known member

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  11. Cap'n Spanky

    Cap'n Spanky Well known member

    Yes. Brilliant article @TG957 Thank you! I need to take the time to read it in detail.

    It's interesting the incredibly fierce resistance some have to these ideas. I mean... I get it. I can still remember how mad I was when a friend joked that my back problem was in my head.

    But very smart people get so angry at these concepts. It's as if you're tearing away the core of their very foundation.
    Ellen, Enrique, TG957 and 1 other person like this.
  12. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

  13. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    So, folks, as promised, my thoughts on the subject. Upon return from my travels (BTW, with COVID acquired on the plane from the woman next to me who clearly had it) I re-read the article on my computer, and found it even more interesting and relevant than before, and not because I am now better prepared to avoid long covid, but for many more reasons.

    The article goes far beyond long covid and also links it to other mindbody conditions, since, thanks to Paul Garner, we can can fairly confidently consider a mindbody condition.

    We often say on this forum "I could see myself on every page of this book" - and it is true for this article. It comes to the conclusion that many TMS patients and TMS practitioners have been arriving on for a while: any organ and system in our body can be attacked by a malfunction in the nervous system and brain processing patterns, chronic pain is just one of many cases. I apologize for habitually using term "TMS" here, just because it is short and familiar to all of us, but please note that I understand that I should be using a term "mindbody disorder" here.

    Here are the points that I found the most important to me in the article:

    1. Freud, with his theory of conversion, was correct in relating a childhood trauma to physical illness in the adulthood. What Freud missed, was a narrow focus on how trauma can occur. We now know that some people on this forum (me included) were not able to link their illness to a childhood trauma, because the trauma could have occurred later in life as a single event or accumulate incrementally. The critics who found one hole in the theory tried to fail the entire theory because of its incompleteness - which was wrong. Dr Sarno who followed Freud, nevertheless inspired the search for psychosomatic healing regardless of the age in which the trauma occurred.

    2. Definition of a trauma that could trigger TMS needs to be widen and include not just purely psychological events, but also physical injuries, viral infections etc.
    . Injury or viral infection will heal with the medication or otherwise, but psychological trauma would linger. She says: "an interruption in the brain processing that facilitates the executive function of your legs—a blip that could be triggered by all sorts of things". I specifically would like to exclude for a moment the case from the NIH-sponsored study of people with long covid who were never infected with covid - that is a curious but rather trivial case for us on this forum, we know what a fear and good imagination can do to an anxious person. The mechanism of a viral respiratory infection impacting the nervous system is not well studied and I can't wait to see more published in this area. Same applies to autoimmune conditions like RA or neurological like multiple sclerosis. In case of MS we do not have any evidence that it can be healed through mindbody methods - unless I just don't know of those.

    3. At least one study found the link between long covid and anxiety disorder - anyone here surprised? The observation by Dr. Sharpe that obsessive focus on symptoms worsens the symptoms themselves. The story of the woman in the article who developed symptoms of degenerative dementia, same as her mother had - it is the same as my story of developing CRPS, just like my grandaunt had! But it is not that simple: both she and I developed some symptoms at first, and then descended into the full-blown disease fueled by fear of a hereditary condition. But why did we we develop similar symptoms first and then remembered that there could be a link, could there still be some predisposition, and what are the mechanisms? And, of course, were her mother's and my grandaunt's diagnoses as false as our own?

    4. Disproportionally high incidence of chronic pain and many other neurological conditions among women. For CRPS it is 4 to 1 compared to men. Another neurological disorder which is in most cases TMS - dystonia - has a disproportionally high prevalence in Jewish Ashkenazi women, not just any Jewish women - go figure! I am not going to trivialize it by blaming it on purely socioeconomic factors and higher adversity that women face, because Parkinson's, for example, happens more often in men. Is there a biological, genetic link? What else is there?

    5. Knowledge is cure, self-awareness is so necessary for healing to occur.
    a) The infamous "it is in your head" stopped so many from healing sooner, or even healing at all:
    "I preferred a terminal diagnosis that gave me a feeling of dignity, and people can look at you and go, ‘Oh, I’m so sorry, I can now give you my support,’ instead of ‘That’s really weird.’”
    b) the woman's initial diagnosis was correct, she was diagnosed with a psychosomatic disorder, "but she couldn’t see how it was connected with her migraines, fatigue, or tremors." As a result, she did not get the right treatment for years, and her condition got much worse.

    6. The discussion on the subject of hardware (physical) and software (mental) in the body. Guess what, they cannot be separated, there is no software without hardware and vice versa. As a technology professional I can assure you with 100% certainty, that the only hardware without software in modern computers is the metal cover. Nothing works in your computer without chips. Every chip in your computer is useless and dead without software that is wired into it. It is exactly the same for the mindbody, one does not work well without the other, or does not work at all. The sooner our medicine stops treating mental health separately from physical health, the sooner it will be able to treat chronic conditions.

    6. I loved the brilliant takedown of the mainstream medicine :
    "And it’s no coincidence that Eliot Slater, the mid-century neurologist who fiercely denounced the concept of hysteria, was also one of history’s most enthusiastic defenders of lobotomies."
    “I began to look into the current landscape, and it turned out there was very little that was understood about functional disorders at all,” he told me. “Very little in textbooks, very little teaching. There was virtually no research going on. No one had much interest.”
    In short, she gives many examples of how any psychologically informed methods were outlawed despite showing good results in the clinical trials, how the phony drug-based medicine prevailed in treating anxiety and depression, along with chronic fatigue, despite not being much better than placebo.

    I am so infuriated by the still widespread conviction among general public and even doctors that mental disorders are not real illness because they are "in your head", and that any illness is not a real illness unless you can sledgehammer it with a pill. I am so happy to see articles like this one, getting into the mainstream press and planting the seeds of the change in our healthcare system.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2022
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